beetle Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ I am not talking about right vote kind things. There are people who still struggling to meet ends , numerous useless rituals in various religions, too much corruptions,rape cases etc.. lot of things even kills people , let us solve them first, then we can try to solve Gay issues. Well how Would you and I feel if some said the same about straight people. Forget about their rights to love and be loved. They can do so after we have solved all our problems. Why do they have to wait for the govt to get a rule that says"your sexuality is your business"? They don't have to built roads to city called Gayland......They just have to be sensitive and not act like Gods who rule what people do in their private lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 After SC verdict on Section 377, wheat trader arrested for shouting ‘gay-hoon le lo’ After the Supreme Court decision to uphold Section 377 that criminalizes homosexuality, the first casualty of the Victorian era law was a wheat trader in Delhi who was shouting ‘gay hoon, le lo!! gay hoon, le lo!!’ which translates to ‘Pick my wheat’ but was misconstrued by law enforcement authorities to be ‘I am homosexual, pick me up’. Sub-Inspector Rishwat Prasad Yadav who was on duty that time told The Unreal Times, ‘This guy was shouting loudly on the GB road and everyone knows it is a red light area. What am I to understand? Our investigations reveal that all his other antics before his arrest also suggested that he is a gay. He was seen asking people to vote for Andy in Bigg Boss, and was heard discussing with friends the commercial prospects of Dostana-2 if Ranbir Kapoor and Ranbir Singh were to star in the movie. We also have strong evidence to suggest that he loathed Sulbha Arya (who played Kantaa Ben in Kal Ho Na Ho) and is a big fan of Karan Johar. In the wake of no new law, it was nothing short of justice to have him arrested. The LGBT community has come out in support of the wheat trader, and has been trying for his bail, but the court has ruled that he is no Laloo Prasad Yadav to get a bail on the grounds of parity. http://www.theunrealtimes.com/2013/12/14/after-sc-verdict-on-section-377-wheat-trader-arrested-for-shouting-gay-hoon-le-lo/ :cantstop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ I am not talking about right vote kind things. There are people who still struggling to meet ends , numerous useless rituals in various religions, too much corruptions,rape cases etc.. lot of things even kills people , let us solve them first, then we can try to solve Gay issues. These are not issues that can be solved in a day or even a few decades...but removing this barbaric rule can happen in a few hrs.Why wait ...at least do what can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ I don't know madam , this doesn't look barbaric to me compare to other issues. may be i am thick skinned , but this my opinion. whatever 377 says it allows people to live , unlike some other issues we are facing in this country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 That's the crux - good post. That and the fact that what the majority wants should mean jack as far as human rights are concerned. +1, equality cannot be held hostage to the whims and fancies of the majority. Similar opposition was faced when introducing any legislation for equal rights, like ending the social boycott of Dalits in government schools and temples. Even though things are not perfect today, those laws did help to reduce the ostracization of Dalits in Indian society Well..Shock therapy or so called ECT is one of the most cruel treatment used by psychiatry when it doesn't cure anything rather it kills some brain cells so that one will forget about everything ' date=' albeit temporarily. But you can't be so sure about homosexuality is natural , I have read instances where a man or a woman has changed from homosexuality to heterosexuality in their course of time..Question is not about how others can change sexuality of a homosexual through some kind of therapies, but can one change the sexuality with his/her own effort?[/quote'] The theory is that very few people are exclusively homosexual or heterosexual and they fall somewhere on a Kinsey scale which is a spectrum of sexual preference. Individuals estimate their own sexual preference and this estimation might not be totally correct. The change that you are talking about is the course correction which happens. Otherwise sexual preference is a biological trait which cannot be changed through therarpy. ECT is abuse so I don't think that should be even discussed. But this risk applies to both heterosexual and homosexual people. So that cannot be used as an argument for banning gay marriages. The least society can do is to allow an individual to decide his /her own sexual preference without any legal/social barriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Here is an innovative use of the law: Devyani Khobragade row: arrest same sex companions of US diplomats in India, says Yashwant Sinha http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/devyani-khobragade-row-arrest-same-sex-companions-of-us-diplomats-in-india-says-yashwant-sinha-459750?pfrom=home-lateststories Senior BJP leader Yashwant Sinha raised eyebrows on Tuesday with a comment that after the arrest and alleged mistreatment of diplomat Devyani Khobragade in the US, India should reciprocate by arresting the same sex companions of American diplomats using a Supreme Court verdict that restored a ban on gay sex last week. "My suggestion to the Government of India is, the media has reported that we have issued visas to a number of US diplomats' companions. 'Companions' means that they are of the same sex. Now, after the Supreme Court ruling, it is completely illegal in our country. Just as paying less wages was illegal in the US. So, why doesn't the government of India go ahead and arrest all of them? Put them behind bars, prosecute them in this country and punish them," Mr Sinha said. Sources in the BJP say Mr Sinha may have been referring to an American diplomat and his partner, who faced visa difficulties last month. Ms Khobragade, 39, was arrested for alleged visa fraud in New York last week and reportedly subjected to a humiliating strip search before being kept in a cell with drug addicts. She has refused to comment on this. An angry India has asked US diplomats in consulates all over the country to surrender their identity cards and senior leaders like Rahul Gandhi and Narendra Modi have refused to meet a US Congress delegation. The treatment of Ms Khobragade was described as "despicable and barbaric" by National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ Good point by YS, It's SC rule now follow it. If not then repeal it. :hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Here is an innovative use of the law: Devyani Khobragade row: arrest same sex companions of US diplomats in India, says Yashwant Sinha http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/devyani-khobragade-row-arrest-same-sex-companions-of-us-diplomats-in-india-says-yashwant-sinha-459750?pfrom=home-lateststories I think that's the law's primary use, to threaten, blackmail, harass and humiliate people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Yes. Let's violate human rights to protest against violation of diplomatic conventions. Great Idea Yashwant :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think that's the law's primary use' date=' to threaten, blackmail, harass and humiliate people.[/quote'] +1and for policewalla to earn their haftas from same sex couples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 What happened with diplomat is not human rights violation :hmmmm2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 What happened with diplomat is not human rights violation :hmmmm2: No,The issue there was a violation of diplomatic protocol. If she was an US citizen, the police would have been well within their rights to arrest her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 "My suggestion to the Government of India is, the media has reported that we have issued visas to a number of US diplomats' companions. 'Companions' means that they are of the same sex. Now, after the Supreme Court ruling, it is completely illegal in our country. Just as paying less wages was illegal in the US. So, why doesn't the government of India go ahead and arrest all of them? Put them behind bars, prosecute them in this country and punish them," Mr Sinha said. Excellent points by YS , let us see how Con part top guns respond now , it became a habit to them for preach one thing and then follow something else. Either Govt. arrest them or repeal the article 377 , let us wait n watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Yashwant meant it as a threat i think, 'you humiliate us sexually we will do the same' kind of threat, but if 377 is used the only people humiliated will be us indians on a global stage. He should not have used 377 to make his point. Why stoop to their level at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ He may be having a shot at con party top brass which went to media supporting 377 , but in reality does nothing. Just blaming YS as he endorses this law is only one point of view [easily misunderstood i agree] timing may not be exactly right , but these kind of comments exposes hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The theory is that very few people are exclusively homosexual or heterosexual and they fall somewhere on a Kinsey scale which is a spectrum of sexual preference. Individuals estimate their own sexual preference and this estimation might not be totally correct. The change that you are talking about is the course correction which happens. Otherwise sexual preference is a biological trait which cannot be changed through therarpy. . How are you so sure that homosexuality is a biological trait as opposed to a mental state, unless you are being a homosexual or seen one closely ? I am sure you are going by western psychological literature available to us. But one must also consider that there are many different views about one's sexuality. One argument goes that if I am born gay, it’s not something I can control since it is biological whereas other view takes multiple psychological , social genetic, hormonal, social, and cultural influences on one's sexual orientation. My doubt on psychiatry comes from Schizophrenia or depression is considered as chemical imbalances by modern psychiatry , but I have a personal experience that they are neither and anti-psychotic drugs would only mask the symptoms , but don not address it. Yet our psychiatrists are convinced by various scientific literature available to them that there are no alternatives than anti-psychotic medications for a schizophrenic , and refuse to seek alternative therapies..I said this because it is politically useful to say a homosexual is biological trait as it is an appeal to nature in a society that equates “natural” with “normal" just iike schizophrenia is chemical imbalance is an easy way to push anti-psychotic drugs. Every human is different from one another and the division of people into discrete categories of “heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian” is kind of artificial. Decriminalizing consented sex between two same gender couples is very much required, I have my doubts about legalizing gay marriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Science and facts say 2+2=4 or Homosexuality is not unnatural. 377 says 2+2=5 or Homosexuality is unnatural. 1,500 animal species practice homosexuality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Science and facts say 2+2=4 or Homosexuality is not unnatural. 377 says 2+2=5 or Homosexuality is unnatural. 1,500 animal species practice homosexuality Even if you can see homosexual behavior in animals, does animals practice complete homosexuality? I dont think so..At the best it can termed as sexual aspect beyond that of reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 How are you so sure that homosexuality is a biological trait as opposed to a mental state' date=' unless you are being a homosexual or seen one closely [/quote'] Actually that is exactly the kind of information I would not use to come to a conclusion. Relying on anecdotal evidence is a flawed approach. I am not going by western or eastern literature but rather on evidence based peer reviewed scientific papers. Unless the other view is based on solid scientific research, relying on it is pointless. There is no real equivalency between the two views you post about. It is like saying evolution is one view, and other view is creationism, somehow implying that both are legitimate scientific viewpoints which they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Even if you can see homosexual behavior in animals' date=' does animals practice complete homosexuality? I dont think so..At the best it can termed as sexual aspect beyond that of reproduction.[/quote'] What is your definition of natural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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