zep1706 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 his HC game has improved dramatically but his grass game has certainly declined' date='perhaps due to the fast nature of the courts on week 1 which gradually settles by week 2 but i think he is satisfied with 2 wimby titles,his main aim is to get past 17 and to hold the double slam record i.e win each slam twice[/quote'] The first week of grass is always tricky for anybody. Even Federer and Sampras have had to go through 5 sets a few times. Nadal's grass court game has worsened because he doesn't move just as well as he used to. On grass that gets exposed. I think even his clay game has declined for the same reason. He was very scratchy on clay last year. Of course that could also be because he was playing after a long break and was under pressure to defend his FO points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualVisitor Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Abbey Ghonchu, see them play and understand the sport instead of being a slave to statistics! Both of them have over a dozen slams. If one is better than the other, its because of the GAME they bring to the table, not if they have a few more slams than the other guy. You seem to think that the better guy always has more slams, its simply not true otherwise Ivanisevic would have more slams than Hewitt. Winning slams and being a better player are two different things when you are talking about people who have won a lot of slams! a few more here and there wont change who's better! You can have a meaningful argument over speculations if you understand the game and the variables involved. Which you clearly do not! Exactly my sentiments Mulo. Very well put. Relating it to another sport (Carrom) which I used to follow intimately (in 80's), there was a player extraordinaire (I won't name him) who did not win as many state/national level champs as his talent warranted, but almost everybody who knew the game intimately and have seen him play in his top form, believes that he is the best they have ever seen (and some of these were very much part of the Carrom circuit and had seen/challenged many great players). So, the best player by a decent margin but not even near great going by statistics alone. I firmly believe if he had not lost the zeal/passion/mojo/whatever for the game and if he could have maintained even 60-70% of his powers for a decade or so he would have won 7-8 world titles at least. There was a period of 2-3 years where he blasted off every opponent the country had to offer. It was almost a given during that period, that if a situation demanded he finish off all coins on the board, he would invariably do so irrespective of the complexity of the coin positions. Even the pros during that time had no idea how he used to do it. Many used to think these were flukes. I was lucky enough to have a chat with him when he was almost down and out and talk about his unbelievable finishes on the board. All he had to say was "They have no idea how I see connections between the coins and how I can successfully execute shots which I am attempting for the first time". He simply was a genius. To my mind he was the best I have ever seen, despite the fact that he won only 1 national and few state championships. There are few guys who have won lot more nationals than him but I am certain in my mind that he is the best I have ever seen! It's a pity that we did not use technology then to capture those amazing finishes on the Carrom board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Exactly my sentiments Mulo. Very well put. Relating it to another sport (Carrom) which I used to follow intimately (in 80's)' date=' there was a player extraordinaire (I won't name him) who did not win as many state/national level champs as his talent warranted, but almost everybody who knew the game intimately and have seen him play in his top form, believes that he is the best they have ever seen (and some of these were very much part of the Carrom circuit and had seen/challenged many great players). So, the best player by a decent margin but not even near great going by statistics alone. I firmly believe if he had not lost the zeal/passion/mojo/whatever for the game and if he could have maintained even 60-70% of his powers for a decade or so he would have won 7-8 world titles at least. There was a period of 2-3 years where he blasted off every opponent the country had to offer. It was almost a given during that period, that if a situation demanded he finish off all coins on the board, he would invariably do so irrespective of the complexity of the coin positions. Even the pros during that time had no idea how he used to do it. Many used to think these were flukes. I was lucky enough to have a chat with him when he was almost down and out and talk about his unbelievable finishes on the board. All he had to say was "They have no idea how I see connections between the coins and how I can successfully execute shots which I am attempting for the first time". He simply was a genius. To my mind he was the best I have ever seen, despite the fact that he won only 1 national and few state championships. There are few guys who have won lot more nationals than him but I am certain in my mind that he is the best I have ever seen! It's a pity that we did not use technology then to capture those amazing finishes on the Carrom board![/quote'] Never thought somebody could be passionate enough for Carrom to write this lengthy post. :ohmy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualVisitor Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Never thought somebody could be passionate enough for Carrom to write this lengthy post. :ohmy: It is also a sport it its own right :winky: Wonderful game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep1706 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Stan the man in the final!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Stan the man in the final!! He deserved it. He has raised level of his game since that epic game with Djokovic last year. Another relevant fact is that he has played Nadal 11 times and yet to take a set off him. So if Nadal manages to hold off Federer, he would be overwhelmingly favorite to win this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep1706 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 He deserved it. He has raised level of his game since that epic game with Djokovic last year. Another relevant fact is that he has played Nadal 11 times and yet to take a set off him. So if Nadal manages to hold off Federer, he would be overwhelmingly favorite to win this. Stan is a different player now. Earlier he didn't have the belief that he could beat the top guys. Even last year he should have beaten Novak both in Australia and US open, but lacked that killer punch. He was the better player for four sets on both occasions. Many players would have taken those losses negatively but Stan took them positively as a work in progress. Unless the enormity of playing a grand slam final for the first time overwhelms him, I am sure he will give a good fight. He was pretty close of taking both the sets against Rafa in the world tour finals. I expect him to play much better in the final regardless of who he plays against. It will be close, Stan is no pushover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep1706 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Exactly my sentiments Mulo. Very well put. Relating it to another sport (Carrom) which I used to follow intimately (in 80's)' date=' there was a player extraordinaire (I won't name him) who did not win as many state/national level champs as his talent warranted, but almost everybody who knew the game intimately and have seen him play in his top form, believes that he is the best they have ever seen (and some of these were very much part of the Carrom circuit and had seen/challenged many great players). So, the best player by a decent margin but not even near great going by statistics alone. I firmly believe if he had not lost the zeal/passion/mojo/whatever for the game and if he could have maintained even 60-70% of his powers for a decade or so he would have won 7-8 world titles at least. There was a period of 2-3 years where he blasted off every opponent the country had to offer. It was almost a given during that period, that if a situation demanded he finish off all coins on the board, he would invariably do so irrespective of the complexity of the coin positions. Even the pros during that time had no idea how he used to do it. Many used to think these were flukes. I was lucky enough to have a chat with him when he was almost down and out and talk about his unbelievable finishes on the board. All he had to say was "They have no idea how I see connections between the coins and how I can successfully execute shots which I am attempting for the first time". He simply was a genius. To my mind he was the best I have ever seen, despite the fact that he won only 1 national and few state championships. There are few guys who have won lot more nationals than him but I am certain in my mind that he is the best I have ever seen! It's a pity that we did not use technology then to capture those amazing finishes on the Carrom board![/quote'] Talent is a set of qualities that enable you to win. Rafa may not have a better volley or serve than Federer (although he is highly underrated in those) but he does many things better than Federer. Federer with all his talent could never really figure out how to beat Rafa, that's true even if he goes on to win tonight. On the other hand everyone was predicting how Rafa would never be able to beat Novak again after 2011. He worked on his game and the mental side of it and turned the table around. Federer is one of the greatest players ever and a pleasure to watch, no one would deny that. But the stupidity of dismissing Nadal's achievements with a bunch of excuses like oh he is only good on slow courts, oh he is just a clay court great (comes with an inherent bias that clay is an inferior surface :D), oh he does well because he is a leftie, oh he wouldn't do well in the 90s and whatnot is simply staggering. Only insecure fanboys are so delusional. I won't argue with you if you say that Federer is the greatest of all time. That's your opinion and it is probably true too. But I have a problem when you dismiss an all time great like Nadal like he is a nobody and just winning because of (insert an excuse). Thankfully most people in popular media aren't so retarded and they have accepted the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualVisitor Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Talent is a set of qualities that enable you to win. Rafa may not have a better volley or serve than Federer (although he is highly underrated in those) but he does many things better than Federer. Federer with all his talent could never really figure out how to beat Rafa' date=' that's true even if he goes on to win tonight. On the other hand everyone was predicting how Rafa would never be able to beat Novak again after 2011. He worked on his game and the mental side of it and turned the table around. Federer is one of the greatest players ever and a pleasure to watch, no one would deny that. But the stupidity of dismissing Nadal's achievements with a bunch of excuses like oh he is only good on slow courts, oh he is just a clay court great (comes with an inherent bias that clay is an inferior surface :D), oh he does well because he is a leftie, oh he wouldn't do well in the 90s and whatnot is simply staggering. Only insecure fanboys are so delusional. [b']I won't argue with you if you say that Federer is the greatest of all time. That's your opinion and it is probably true too. But I have a problem when you dismiss an all time great like Nadal like he is a nobody and just winning because of (insert an excuse). Thankfully most people in popular media aren't so retarded and they have accepted the reality. Don't think anyone is dissing Rafa. When you have more than a dozen slams in your kitty, you are already great (statistically :winky:). But that doesn't translate into one being the complete or near-complete player. The point, I think, was, one can be complete/all-round player and may still win less number of slams and somebody with less complete/all-round skills may win more slams. To each his own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos_rafa Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 So, it's time to say Vamos again! Hoping for a great match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooda Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Federer will start off like a train but Rafas far superior physicality and that burtal forehand will prevail. Fed's only hope is if Rafa's blister is troubling him. I'd love to see fully fit Rafa and Federer beat him but will not happen. Rafa will win in 4 , itll go something like 4-6, 7-6, 6-3, 6-2. Or three hard fought sets win for Rafa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualVisitor Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Seeing how well Federer is moving on court and overall positivity around him, I think he is favorite this time (whether Nadal is unfit or not). Four setter in Roger's favor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooda Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 It may rain and with the roof closed Roger will fancy his chances a bit more. They say its a quicker court than usual with lower bounce .. lets see if that helps him too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLICKR392 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Fedex :cheer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketics Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Brilliant start. Loving it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 rafa wins the 1st set 7-6.rafa has a similar gameplan like in 2012,hitting the ball deep in fed's half and not allowing him to dictate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 some excellent rallies played,time out taken by nadal for his palm blisters..he's a fighter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep1706 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Don't think anyone is dissing Rafa. LOL you should go back and see insecure fanboys comparing Nadal with Michael Chang. :haha: Apparently he doesn't have a good serve, a good forehand, a good return of serve, a good backhand and yet wins against almost everyone. :hysterical: When you have more than a dozen slams in your kitty, you are already great (statistically :winky:). But that doesn't translate into one being the complete or near-complete player. The point, I think, was, one can be complete/all-round player and may still win less number of slams and somebody with less complete/all-round skills may win more slams. To each his own! Federer is a complete player but so is Nadal. There is a difference in style. Federer may look pretty but that doesn't make him greater based on that alone. Nadal has been able to expose his game time and again. Nobody hasn done that consistently enough against Nadal. Novak did it for a while then Rafa turned it around. There is no asterisk on Nadal's greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 nadal leads 2 sets to love,its all over for fed.congrats nadal for his 14th slam,noway he is gonna let this opportunity of winning double slam go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I feel sorry for Fed because he is supremely talented (perhaps even most talented of all time) but this rivalry proves talent isn't the be all and end all in sports. Seems like trolls are in hiding. Nadal breaks again in the 3rd, Fed seems all but finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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