Where is our match winning bowler?

[sachin_fan]

Hi guys, for the lats 15 years, i have watched cricket and pityably, india has no single match winning bowler. I cannot single out one guy and say, give the ball to him, he will get a wicket 6 out of 10 times....Every team seems to have someone with the potential of ripping a lineup apart...be it shoaib or B.Lee, or Shane Bond, or nitni / Pollock or a flintoff or someone......We had ppl in patches... First there was our javagal who came as the black lightning, Kumble stole the thunder for sometime Aggy burst into the scene IKP was a terror in the first overs...but none of them lasted... Are we wearing them out, or is it a case of non cricket responsibilities luring htem away....either way, this is dissapointing...i dont know why this is the case for our team alone.... PS: 3 of our major victory streaks, 98 , 2003(WC) and 2005/6 came when our bowlers were at top, be it aggy or zak,nehra srinath or IKP...there was atleast one bowler, who was providing early breakthrus....Why isn't there one doing it consistently...

[Bumper]

The next gen fast bowlers are decent. Sree, Munaf, RPS, Zaheer make up a decent fast bowling unit. And the match winning bowler that you asked for is none other than Kumble.

[Cricketics]

i am the one.. India calling here i come..

[siddhu]

Are we wearing them out, or is it a case of non cricket responsibilities luring htem away....either way, this is dissapointing...i dont know why this is the case for our team alone....

probably both... The amount of cricket that BCCI schedules and the non-cricketing responsibilities may drain the bowlers mentally. But u r right.. it is very disappointing to see that we don't have a consistent bowler. Aggy was good when he started and has been decent (i am using this word loosely here) recently. The current lot is good and wish them all the best.

[theguyinallblue]

Piyush chawla will be a big thing in the times to come..in Test matches... i think our pace attack of Munaf, RP Swing, IKP, Sree, Zakky is quite a formidable one.... and with Kumble around for at least 2 years...along with chawla..or Bhajji or Murli....i think our bags are full in bowling deptt... now we just need these blokes to be fit and in form.... IKP is surely getting in the grove..and i think time is not far..when he will get his deadly inswing...he has already matured in a Fast pace bowler with many new skills.... insha allah...we will win a a lot of test matches...in the next two years...

[Mr. Wicket]

Aggy burst into the scene

Who is this matchwinning bowler that you speak of? Never heard of him.

[fineleg]

Who is this matchwinning bowler that you speak of? Never heard of him.

What do you mean you dont know who this matchwinner is!? He is an out and out match winner - pls. go ask the opposition teams! :D PS: On a more serious note, gasp, gasp, I think AA is comparable to SS in ODI form currently

[Holysmoke]

Sree. Wait and watch.

[Mr. Wicket]

Sree has still played roles in winning us a few major test matches (and by this, I mean more than getting a lower order and tail out quickly as most of them played idiotic shots). I'm yet to hear what this matchwinning Aggy person has done. (other than sucking)

[Ram]

I'm yet to hear what this matchwinning Aggy person has done. (other than sucking)

Adelaide 2003 , 6-41. Agarkar deserves the Bharat Ratna for that alone , arguably India's finest test win ever ! ( After Kolkata 2001 i.e) :two_thumbs_up:

[Mr. Wicket]

When you suggested that, I pulled up the clip I have of Aag's wickets in that innings. Langer: Out LBW, good bowling. Ponting: Out caught to a superb catch at gully when he failed to keep a cut down. Bichel: Poor shot, played across the line - batting coming down from the off side/angling to third slip and coming across, missed it completely. Good ball. Katich: Played a god-awful hook shot. The result of a batsman trying to hook a ball wide outside off usually sees him getting a bit of flak. Not Agarkar receiving laudatory mujra from his adoring public. Gillespie: Poking outside off stump with an open face. MacGill: Wild slog, bowled. Getting three of the last four bats out really shouldn't be considered that great a feat. Langer was a well earned wicket to some fine bowling, Katich got out to a sh8thouse shot, and Ponting was a combination of a decent ball, poor shot and a superb catch. Agarkar also got 2/119 in the first innings in 26 overs. I'd hardly call that matchwinning. What was matchwinning was Dravid scoring 233 and 72* when it mattered in both innings, and producing two blinders to remove Martyn and Waugh in the 2nd innings. What was matchwinning was VVS stroking his way to a sublime 148 and then a crucial, quickfire 32 off 34 as the pressure was building in the chase. Those were the performances upon which that 1-0 lead and victory was built upon. Not Eggy taking down a tail after some harakiri batting and a typically pathetic performance in the first innings.

[Ram]

Hahahaha.. Shall we then start digging into the wickets package of EVERY worthwhile bowling performance by any bowler ? You must remember that many times , wickets are not just earned , they are gifted too and it is a consequence of the earlier prevailing pressure due to the match circumstances. Can you guarantee that If not for Agarkar , some other bowler would have turned up the same performance and India would have still bowled out Aus for 191 ? As long as you cant do that , Agarkar will remain , rightfully so , one of the main architects of India's greatest test match victory on foreign soil.

[Ram]

I'd hardly call that matchwinning. What was matchwinning was Dravid scoring 233 and 72* when it mattered in both innings, and producing two blinders to remove Martyn and Waugh in the 2nd innings. What was matchwinning was VVS stroking his way to a sublime 148 and then a crucial, quickfire 32 off 34 as the pressure was building in the chase. Those were the performances upon which that 1-0 lead and victory was built upon. Not Eggy taking down a tail after some harakiri batting and a typically pathetic performance in the first innings.

Oh, then point me to the Indian bowler who took 5-75 in the first innings please. :D

[Mr. Wicket]

Indeed. Agarkar is truly a wonderful servant of Indian cricket and a true matchwinner. I shall now change my avatar to something else in tribute to the Great Man. BTW, in ten years playing cricket, what else has he done besides that constantly-harped-on-about performance?

[Ram]

Indeed. Agarkar is truly a wonderful servant of Indian cricket and a true matchwinner. I shall now change my avatar to something else in tribute to the Great Man. BTW, in ten years playing cricket, what else has he done besides that constantly-harped-on-about performance?

I never constantly harped on his match-winning capabilities. You had asked for an instance of his match-winning prowess, I showed you one. End of story. And hey , its not often that you have an Indian fast bowler actually lasting till he takes nearly 350 international wickets.:wink_smile:

[Mr. Wicket]

My comment was " I'm yet to hear what this matchwinning Aggy person has done. " You just produced one instance - not that I can blame you, you'd be hard pressed to find more - of it. Doesn't the term matchwinning in itself suggest some level of consistency in terms of actually winning matches? Or shall we dub the likes of Bob Massie, Mohammad Zahid, Hrishikesh Kanitkar and co. 'matchwinning players' just like The Mighty Agarkar?

[Ram]

My comment was " I'm yet to hear what this matchwinning Aggy person has done. " You just produced one instance - not that I can blame you, you'd be hard pressed to find more - of it. Doesn't the term matchwinning in itself suggest some level of consistency in terms of actually winning matches? Or shall we dub the likes of Bob Massie, Mohammad Zahid, Hrishikesh Kanitkar and co. 'matchwinning players' just like The Mighty Agarkar?

Agarkar topped the wickets charts in the 1999 tour to Australia , when he made Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh literally his bunnies. Too bad the batsman couldnt last for 70 overs and 250 runs against the Pace of Lee and guile of Mcgrath. And dont forget that there is something called one-dayers too. Agarkar was the fastest to 50 wickets , off just 23 matches. Say India won 15 of them , dare i say Agarkar probably a significant role in them. And just in case it slips my mind , i can off the top of my head recollect three of his batting efforts that won us matches - His 95 batting at no.3 , his fastest 50 against Zim in a match we was in the end a tight encounter and his clean hitting in Sharjah that won us a match against Sri Lanka. Indeed , Agarkar is much more match-winning than your average Indian cricketer who does just enough to hold their place in the Indian team. He is a flawed genius though. I am looking at the genius part , you are looking at the flawed part , thats the difference essentially. Pray , dont include Agarkar in the list of one-hit wonders like Kanitkar or Zahid.

[sachin_fan]

hey, when i mean a match winner - he is a bowler whom i can toss the ball to and be really confident that he would create wicket taking opportunities.....A bowler who rattles the top order consistently is very vital.. Aggy was the fastest player in the world to take 50 ODI wickets....thts some achievement....in the 98 season, he had a role in india's 63% success ratio.....as much as that was sachin's year, lets not forget agarkar's performances.... my only lament is, the last recognised matchwinner i can think of apart from anil kumble is kapil dev....

[Mr. Wicket]

Agarkar topped the wickets charts in the 1999 tour to Australia ' date=' when he made Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh literally his bunnies. Too bad the batsman couldnt last for 70 overs and 250 runs against the Pace of Lee and guile of Mcgrath.[/quote'] He still averaged 31.9 with the ball, which isn't particularly impressive, with a best of 3/43.

And dont forget that there is something called one-dayers too. Agarkar was the fastest to 50 wickets , off just 23 matches. Say India won 15 of them , dare i say Agarkar probably a significant role in them. And just in case it slips my mind , i can off the top of my head recollect three of his batting efforts that won us matches - His 95 batting at no.3 , his fastest 50 against Zim in a match we was in the end a tight encounter and his clean hitting in Sharjah that won us a match against Sri Lanka.

There's a difference between playing a smaller role in helping win a match (Agarkar at Adelaide), and actually being a genuinely matchwinning cricketer - i.e. one who can almost single handedly influence the outcome with the ball and/or bat (Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, McGrath, etc). BTW, his 95 batting at number 3 came in this game. http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2002-03/WI_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/WI_IND_ODI1_06NOV2002.html Was the Lord's hundred also in a winning cause then?

Indeed , Agarkar is much more match-winning than your average Indian cricketer who does just enough to hold their place in the Indian team. He is a flawed genius though. I am looking at the genius part , you are looking at the flawed part , thats the difference essentially. Pray , dont include Agarkar in the list of one-hit wonders like Kanitkar or Zahid.

Pray, don't include Agarkar in a discussion about bowlers who win matches. Save the likes of Kumble for that.

[Lurker]

my only lament is, the last recognised matchwinner i can think of apart from anil kumble is kapil dev....

It is very hard to define a match-winner SF. Yes it is a cliche to describe "Bowlers win Test matches" and then use that as a logic to see how bowlers have performed in matches won, but it simply doesnt work if you dont have good support, variation in your team attack. Lets take Kapil Dev. Would you, for example, know that the man boasts of MOST instances of best bowling figures in a decade(80s)? Much ahead of the likes of Marshall, Hadlee, Botham etc? He ties in with 5 performance alongwith Imran. But while Imran had Qadir, Akram etc to help him through those games Kapil had none. End result? Kapil's 5 performances led to 1 win, 3 draws and 2 loss(including once when he took 9/83). Imran on the other hand, saw Pakistan win all the 5 games. That itsels tells a story. Todays Indian team doesnt have a match winner as such but if Sree and ZK both fire correctly we do have a potent attack that shall win us matches as such, specially abroad. Throw in RP Singh too and yes we do seem to have a good attack, early days yet though. xxx