Selfish Hayden cost Australia '05 Ashes

[The Outsider]

^ Well put, Bharat. An interesting corollary to which is that why did all these people not score the runs when Tendulkar failed?

[bharat297]

Yea good point ... Interesting to see that Sachin's worst year which was 2006, coincided with India's worst year in recent memory.

[Chandan]

And here I thought this thread was about selfish Hayden !!!! Seriously guys, isn't it getting toooooooooooooooooooo boring to drag every second thread to the same topic and then keep reapeating the same points again and again?? If you want to discuss Sachin's failure or success, why don't you bump any of the previous threads instead of spoiling every second thread?? PS: Sorry for being rude!

[Bumper]

That his pivotal innings at Johannesburg and Nottingham did not make you believe that he is worth backing makes me think that new excuses would have been found for what in hindsight were failures.

None of these innings are anything spectacular. You gotta be serious to yourself first. Is this the kinda innings you waited for two years, backing Sachin thru his mediocre years ? Anyways the fact you guys are sh.it scared to simply quote an average tells me how confident you all are in the man you are backing. I wont waste any more time on this thread, until I see someone (like Gambit did) quote real numbers and standby those.

[bharat297]

None of these innings are anything spectacular. You gotta be serious to yourself first. Is this the kinda innings you waited for two years, backing Sachin thru his mediocre years ? Anyways the fact you guys are sh.it scared to simply quote an average tells me how confident you all are in the man you are backing. I wont waste any more time on this thread, until I see someone (like Gambit did) quote real numbers and standby those.

Again ... it was a mediocre few months (6 or so) ... that was it really. Anyway ... are you prepared to give me a magic number or whatever u call it for all the players? If so ... I will tell you whether I agree with them or not

[Bumper]

^ Well put' date=' Bharat. An interesting corollary to which is that why did all these people not score the runs when Tendulkar failed?[/quote'] And what gave u the impression that they did not ? Dravid has scored twin 50s when no one around him succeeded. Ganguly scored a brilliant lone 50 not too long ago, in his last vs Eng Laxman scored a lone 50 in the 2nd innings at Jo'burg Heck remember the Yuseless poster boy Yuvraj Singh. Even he has scored a lone 100 in Karachi when no one crossed 50. Or the pot belly Sehwag, heck even he has a lone 50 in this time. Guess who is missing in that list ?:haha: Yeah, u got that right! So much for being a technically sound batsman.

[Bumper]

Again ... it was a mediocre few months (6 or so) ... that was it really. Anyway ... are you prepared to give me a magic number or whatever u call it for all the players? If so ... I will tell you whether I agree with them or not

An average of 40 from SRT is what i call success in the next 3 series. Anything short this man must go. I dont care whether he stood 4th in the averages list averaging 34 or scored two slow 50s in tricky situations. If you cannot average 40, you simply dont deserve anymore backing. However realistically speaking, i dont think he will cross an average of 35 in the next 3. No amount of explaining can convince me that he would have had a good series without atleast averaging 40.

[Gambit]

How did I miss this post Gambo? Seems like I replied to everyone save this. So let me get this straight. Even though you clearly are a hardcore Sachin fan and have been feverently defending him, even you could not muster courage to say Sachin will score at about 60 or so. What you came up with is 40! Even though one of the series is at home. Tells a story, doesnt it :D

You also missed the post where I said I wanted him dropped before the England series as his record was pretty poor before that. Now that he is coming out of his slump as evidenced against England, avg of 40 against Pak and Aus will be great. Now you tell me. Do you bet against him averaging over 40 overall in the 7 upcoming tests? Yes or No?

[bharat297]

Yes ... I think he can ... I have seen enough good form from Sachin this year to convince me he has a good couple of series ahead of him so yes I am happy with 40. I will say this ... Sachin needs to lift his performances in 2nd innings of tests.

[Lurker]

You also missed the post where I said I wanted him dropped before the England series as his record was pretty poor before that. Now that he is coming out of his slump as evidenced against England, avg of 40 against Pak and Aus will be great. Now you tell me. Do you bet against him averaging over 40 overall in the 7 upcoming tests? Yes or No?

I have replied to a similar question explicitly to BB. I shall repeat it again. Sachin did NOT get to play the last 25 Tests@35 only to play the next 7@ 40. Let me break it down in numbers so there is no ambiguity. Lets say Sachin scores @40 in next 7 Tests. Lets say 7 Tests equals 12 innings? Fair assumption? Okay @40 this would mean Sachin scored 12*40= 480 runs in next 7 Tests. Fair? Now lets add this to Sachin's 25 Test 38 innings 1347 runs@35. It becomes 32 Tests 50 innings 1827 runs. This will make his average in his past 32 Tests at a resounding 36.54!!!! Do you see the fallacy of your argument? That a mainline batsman played 32 Tests non-stop and scored at 36.5? Sorry I dont buy that weak line of thought. To me Sachin needs to pay back the leeway he has received thus far, in other words score big, and by big I mean series with 60 plus average. xxx

[Lurker]

No. It doesnt work that way in Cricket. Going by that Logic Vinod Kambli should have played a heck of a lot more tests than the 15 odd tests he played ata similar avg to SRT and BCL. Its a funny game if u want to use the cliche. Again lot of speculation with no regard to Form, fitness ,injury ,opposition ,pitch and match conditions ... I will give you an example .... scoring 55 in that match against Aus at Wankhede circa 2004 was like scoring a 150 at SCG or elsewhere ... invaluable runs even though they appear meagre. The part where you simply allocate X no.of Runs over N innings. Thats just pure speculation and wishfull thinking.... thats about it ... to keep a log of it and harass him when it doesnt materialize is just plain illogical. Only machines can work that way ...

Long story short, you will sit on that chair and criticize every point of mine, and other Sachin critics, without even putting a single one of yours!! This is the 5th or 6th thread in this thread where you have been dodging a very simple and clear question. What do YOU think Sachin should have scored in his 40 Tests, since the 112 Tests@58 cut off. You know by now where I come from in this debate, now show me what is your point...provided you have any. xxxx

[Gambit]

I have replied to a similar question explicitly to BB. I shall repeat it again. Sachin did NOT get to play the last 25 Tests@35 only to play the next 7@ 40. Let me break it down in numbers so there is no ambiguity. Lets say Sachin scores @40 in next 7 Tests. Lets say 7 Tests equals 12 innings? Fair assumption? Okay @40 this would mean Sachin scored 12*40= 480 runs in next 7 Tests. Fair? Now lets add this to Sachin's 25 Test 38 innings 1347 runs@35. It becomes 32 Tests 50 innings 1827 runs. This will make his average in his past 32 Tests at a resounding 36.54!!!! Do you see the fallacy of your argument? That a mainline batsman played 32 Tests non-stop and scored at 36.5? Sorry I dont buy that weak line of thought. To me Sachin needs to pay back the leeway he has received thus far, in other words score big, and by big I mean series with 60 plus average. xxx

First of all, in his last 26 tests against decent opposition(no BD/Zim), he has made 1648 runs@43. v Australia 3 6 2 371 241* 60* 55 92.75 1 2 0 v England 6 11 1 311 91 82 37 31.10 0 2 0 v Pakistan 9 12 1 523 194* 94 52 47.54 1 3 0 v South Africa 5 9 1 254 64 63 44 31.75 0 2 1 v Sri Lanka 3 5 0 189 109 23 22 37.80 1 0 0 Secondly, sorry but he doesn't have to have 60+ series to "payback" his slump. If that were the case then he was allowed that slump because of the stellar run before the slump and it's even now. He will deserve his spot if he does well against Pak and Aus i.e. avg >40.

[Gambit]

And I don't want to keep going on and on about this. I've said everything that I had to say. I will take this up after the series against Pak and OZ.

[Lurker]

First of all, in his last 26 tests against decent opposition(no BD/Zim), he has made 1648 runs@43. v Australia 3 6 2 371 241* 60* 55 92.75 1 2 0 v England 6 11 1 311 91 82 37 31.10 0 2 0 v Pakistan 9 12 1 523 194* 94 52 47.54 1 3 0 v South Africa 5 9 1 254 64 63 44 31.75 0 2 1 v Sri Lanka 3 5 0 189 109 23 22 37.80 1 0 0

No problems. I made a cut off at 25 Tests, you made it at 26. In 1 tests he scored 301 runs(thats 20% of all the runs!!) so you can see how skewed that single test becomes.

Secondly, sorry but he doesn't have to have 60+ series to "payback" his slump. If that were the case then he was allowed that slump because of the stellar run before the slump and it's even now. He will deserve his spot if he does well against Pak and Aus i.e. avg >40.

That tells me right there how much confidence you have in Sachin. Your "leeway" is based NOT on what he is going to spit out in future but what he did BEFORE. Thats not the way I see it. And just for the records I do hope you would stop bringing in Hayden, Ponting and their "slump", for the simple reason that while a) their slump lasted for less than 20 tests. b) they responded with series of 80s and 70s, but for Sachin a series with 40 shall suffice for you! It is all there on Cricinfo stats, please feel free to look up. xxxx

[Bumper]

And just for the records I do hope you would stop bringing in Hayden, Ponting and their "slump", for the simple reason that while a) their slump lasted for less than 20 tests. b) they responded with series of 80s and 70s, but for Sachin a series with 40 shall suffice for you! It is all there on Cricinfo stats, please feel free to look up. xxxx

Well said, thats the key. Thats what you back a superstar for! Expect the board to be quiet come March next year. Its easy to point to a Hayden or a Ponting or a Gilly or a Dravid & say these guys have gone thru slumps. But they all have/will come out of these slumps like only a great player can. Thats the kinda player that deserves such prolonged backing. Heck, even an Yuvraj Singh manages a couple of series (in between the mediocre ones) with a 50+ avg. So much for backing a superstar

[Bongosamaj]

So lame to see Sachin bat these days, especially in tests. A once-champion batting like a club cricketer is rather sad to watch. Atleast, Lara knew when to quit- Sachin unfortunately is going the Kapil way- keeps playing mediocre cricket for the sake of his record and mint more money.

[Bongosamaj]

Well said, thats the key. Thats what you back a superstar for! Expect the board to be quiet come March next year. Its easy to point to a Hayden or a Ponting or a Gilly or a Dravid & say these guys have gone thru slumps. But they all have/will come out of these slumps like only a great player can. Thats the kinda player that deserves such prolonged backing. Heck, even an Yuvraj Singh manages a couple of series (in between the mediocre ones) with a 50+ avg. So much for backing a superstar

There is an important difference between Sachin and the rest in this case and its plain as daylight when you see him bat these days and have seen him for well over a decade : While Dravid, Ponting, Gilly,etc. have slumps or are off form, Sachin on the other hand is FINISHED as a great player. The best he can give is a scratchy,nervous 70-80 and choke near the century mark. He's been injured once too often and he's never been as fit as Dravid or Ponting and nearly 15 years of non-stop cricket has left him a pale shadow of what he once was. People who do not know when to quit and play for records/money ultimately end up damaging their reputation and it has already started with Sachin- McGrath recently changed his tune and said Lara was the best batsman he's ever bowled against. The way Sachin plays these days,its tough to have much respect for the man anymore. A faded great who doesn't know when to quit - sort of like the 50 year old wearing snazzy pants going to a disco bar- doesn't know his two minutes in the spotlight is over. Sachin, please do us all a favour and retire. We know you wanna keep playing, but be a man and accept that playing cricket at a high level is beyond you, atleast in the Tests.

[zubinpepsi]

phewwwwww... somethings will never stoppppppppppppppppp... it has become boring nowwwwwwwww

[Holysmoke]

So lame to see Sachin bat these days, especially in tests. A once-champion batting like a club cricketer is rather sad to watch.

Oh, so Sachin is batting lame in ODI's too?

[Bongosamaj]

Oh' date=' so Sachin is batting lame in ODI's too?[/quote'] He is fairly lame in ODIs too. Rarely does he bat like Ponting or Gillchrist in full flow- sachin these days, always edges a few, gets outfoxed by a few and what not, regardless of whether he makes runs or not. His immaculate innings, the sort that Ponting,Kallis, etc. play today is a thing in history. But he still gets runs in ODIs, so i am definitely not for dropping him there- nomatter how much he scratches around.