Pakistanis should stack up on DVDs and tapes of Wasim, Imran, Waqar, etc

[Dravid]

A new generation of Pakistani supporters will know nothing but defeat at the hands of India, relying on youtube and their chachajee's tapes of Wasim, Waqar, and Imran to reaffirm their faith in the dying creature that is the Pakistani cricket team.

:hysterical::two_thumbs_up::hysterical::haha:

[Lurker]

I am surprised to see Shoaib Akhtar coming under some attack. From little of what I saw of him he has been terrific. This morning I saw the first 10 overs and Shoaib was superb. His average speed at one time was about 149 and I distinctly remember how at one stage he was holding his ankle, doing a bit of stretch, then bowled off a shorter run-up and effortlessly cracked 145(remind yourself how you go gaga everytime RP cracks 145)! I greatly respect such an athlete. Shoaib is not the problem. The problem is second string bowlers. Folks like Rao Ifthikhar or Sohail Tanveer would not even have been allowed in nets in 90s. Umar Gul is a good bowler but pound for pound I dare say even an Aaqib Javed was better than him, more pace, more movement and certainly more aggression. Pakistan's bowling cupboard is woefully bare.

[Predator_05]

[pointless] Seriously, when a crappy player like him is supposed to be one of your "best", you know you have problems. This guy is absolutely worthless - a total abortion case of a cricketer. His bowling is support-cast at best and his batting...well, the less said about his batting, the better. He plays brainless cricket and comes off once every 10 matches or so. How can you back someone with such a low success rate ? He couldn't score runs to save his life. After all these years, he still averages 23. A batting average of 23 wouldn't get you into an Indian u19 team. Step 1 - Get rid of sh itty bits and pieces cricketers like Shafridi and replace them with proper specialists

[MundaPakistani]

What do you opine has gone so horribly wrong for Pakistan MP?

Leadership. As i said before the team is scared to lose. Even when they were playing well under Inzamam it was quite evident that this success won't last too long because they were relying too heavily on individual brilliances(Shoaib against ENG, Kami against IND, Asif against Lanka). As Bumper said that generally Pakistan cricket has been able to do well despite a very poor domestic structure. The reason for that is the previous captains like Imran Khan and Wasim Akram were not afraid to take risks. They understood that the domestic structure isn't strong enough to produce quality players so they went by visible talent and took a CHANCE. In recent years PAK have won the last two under 19 yet none of the players from the winning side have been given a chance(with the exception of F Alam and R Afridi who played 1 international game each ). I would understand such a move if the domestic structure had improved and was producing good players but the fact is that it's about as bad as it can possibly be. There are no less than 23 teams in the Quaid trophy with a mixture of regional and departmental teams hence the quality of competition is seriously bad. So as of now the only way PAK cricket can do well is if they stop relying on the 1st structure and start take risks.

[fineleg]

Leadership. In recent years PAK have won the last two under 19 yet none of the players from the winning side have been given a chance(with the exception of F Alam and R Afridi who played 1 international game each ). I would understand such a .

Pak U-19 has done quite well. Why is there a fear for the future...sooner or later I think the U-19 best players will start coming through.

[Rohan495]

damn i didnt know misbah was so old hes 33!

[King]

Forget Wasim or Waqar, they cannot be replaced. Pakistan cricket team's body language is bad. Either they are way too tired or they have an attitude of couldn't be bothered. Change in captaincy or coach is not going to fix this. They either need very strong batting to compliment the not so bad bowling department or vice versa. Unfortunately due to either injuries or lack of bench strength Pakistan is not able to field a good enough team that can perform consistently.

[Lurker]

As Bumper said that generally Pakistan cricket has been able to do well despite a very poor domestic structure. The reason for that is the previous captains like Imran Khan and Wasim Akram were not afraid to take risks. They understood that the domestic structure isn't strong enough to produce quality players so they went by visible talent and took a CHANCE.

I will have to poke you further on that point MP. The way I see it is yes Imran and Wasim did play a vital role with inspired captaincy but what I see missing in the current team is the fire-in-the-belly. This has partly to do with the skipper but mostly it is inherent to the player. In 70s Pakistani team was still a strong outfit, and their skipper(Mushtaq Mohammed or Inthikhab Alam) were hardly aggressive leaders. Still players like Majid Khan and specially Asif Iqbal(not to mention Zaheer Abbas etc) ensured that when Pakistan was in doldrums they would stand up and be counted. Asif Iqbal was perhaps the best man to come down at 7 in position of crisis for Pakistan, perhaps even in the history of the game. In 80s you had fringe players like Salim Yousuf, Wasim Raja who fought when chips were down. In 90s it was taken over by folks like Moin and Latif. My point being that yes Pakistan had great players but it was the fire in the belly of the fringe players that made them a dangerous outfit. Most Indians fans would remember than when India lost to Pakistan in 90s it was often due to performances by Aaqib Javed, Mohsin Kamal etc. Not the greatest players but players with good self-beleif. Which is why I say that Pakistan has severely deplted resourced today. Lead bowlers like Sohail Tanveer/Rai Ifthikhar would not hold a candle to someone like Aaqib Javed, and he was hardly a certainty in Pakistan's team of 90s. xxx

[retterimp]

just the name 'rao ifthikar anjum' doesn't sound menacing at all :haha: actually its quite sad to see their bowling nowadays. what made india-pak the greatest rivalry was their bowlers vs. our batsmen. matches between these two in the 90's were nothing less than cracking. don't get that same feeling now.

[Predator_05]

matches between these two in the 90's were nothing less than cracking.

No, they weren't. They always beat us (except in big matches) - that wasn't fun at all. India lost matches to them by ridiculous margins even at home. I am sure P akis are feeling the same way right now.

[Gambit]

Despite them having a cracking team in the 90s and us having a not so good one, we managed to beat them 17 times(lost 26). So not that bad.

[Gambit]

Also I remember us having a 5 match winning streak over them as well.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Despite them having a cracking team in the 90s and us having a not so good one' date=' we managed to beat them 17 times(lost 26). So not that bad.[/quote'] Add to that the presence of sharjah umpires

[Bumper]

I will have to poke you further on that point MP. The way I see it is yes Imran and Wasim did play a vital role with inspired captaincy but what I see missing in the current team is the fire-in-the-belly. This has partly to do with the skipper but mostly it is inherent to the player. In 70s Pakistani team was still a strong outfit, and their skipper(Mushtaq Mohammed or Inthikhab Alam) were hardly aggressive leaders. Still players like Majid Khan and specially Asif Iqbal(not to mention Zaheer Abbas etc) ensured that when Pakistan was in doldrums they would stand up and be counted. Asif Iqbal was perhaps the best man to come down at 7 in position of crisis for Pakistan, perhaps even in the history of the game. In 80s you had fringe players like Salim Yousuf, Wasim Raja who fought when chips were down. In 90s it was taken over by folks like Moin and Latif. My point being that yes Pakistan had great players but it was the fire in the belly of the fringe players that made them a dangerous outfit. Most Indians fans would remember than when India lost to Pakistan in 90s it was often due to performances by Aaqib Javed, Mohsin Kamal etc. Not the greatest players but players with good self-beleif. Which is why I say that Pakistan has severely deplted resourced today. Lead bowlers like Sohail Tanveer/Rai Ifthikhar would not hold a candle to someone like Aaqib Javed, and he was hardly a certainty in Pakistan's team of 90s. xxx

Its not all Pakistan's fault Lurks. India has also improved its batting and in particular, bowling by leaps & bounds in this time. We never took our bowling seriously back in the 90s. We were always a batting team, with bowlers scrambling around to make up the numbers. Now we've got an attack that can dismiss teams regularly in either forms of the game. So in addition to the decline in talunt levels in Pakistan, our ascendence as a cricket nation is also contributive to the one sided results we are witnessing.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Pak U-19 has done quite well. Why is there a fear for the future...sooner or later I think the U-19 best players will start coming through.

There is a catch all 20+ guys play in pak under 19 beat the crap out of 16-17 year boy from other teams and pakistanis get lulled into thinking they have citadel of world beater team of future..

[Lurker]

So in addition to the decline in talunt levels in Pakistan, our ascendence as a cricket nation is also contributive to the one sided results we are witnessing.

I dont disagree with that notion Bumper but a fair question to ask is - Has India progressed a LOT as cricketing team? Or has Pakistan flopped a LOT as a cricketing team? I think it is a little bit of both but if I have to pick one of the two I shall go with the latter. Look at it this way. The main problem of Pakistan in last few years is openers. Now this was not so much an issue when Sohail/Anwar would open. In fact both Sohail and Anwar average more against India(41 and 43) than their overall career average. They were followed by a middle order that read Ijaz/Inzzy/Malik/Basit Ali. ALL of these gents have won matches against Indian on their own! One of my worst cricketing memory is Malik scoring 36 ball 72 at Eden Gardens and taking Kapil to cleaners. And then they had Moin/Rashid to up the ante. When it came to bowling the attack of Wasim-Waqar-Saqlain-Mushtaq with Aaqib/Akhtar etc at various times should surely qualify as one of the best ever! The batting today sucks, specially openers. The keeping is cr@p and bowling, well lets not even go there. xxx

[Predator_05]

Despite them having a cracking team in the 90s and us having a not so good one' date=' we managed to beat them 17 times(lost 26). So not that bad.[/quote'] I am not familiar with the stats, but i only remember the bad days. Losing countless matches to them at Sharjah (including an 8 match losing streak), the two Sahara Cup defeats (India should have won the first one !), losing all three matches against them in the '99 Pepsi Cup at home (none of them were even close), losing 3 of 4 matches to them in Australia. India beat them occasionally, but they only got the big wins when Wasim, Waqar etc. weren't playing - ie; '98 Independence Cup, 4-1 in the '97 Sahara, etc.

[King Tendulkar]

Yeah I will lend them my DVD from the 2003 WC when Sachin retired the 2 Ws and smoked them all over the park!

[MundaPakistani]

I will have to poke you further on that point MP. The way I see it is yes Imran and Wasim did play a vital role with inspired captaincy but what I see missing in the current team is the fire-in-the-belly. This has partly to do with the skipper but mostly it is inherent to the player. In 70s Pakistani team was still a strong outfit, and their skipper(Mushtaq Mohammed or Inthikhab Alam) were hardly aggressive leaders. Still players like Majid Khan and specially Asif Iqbal(not to mention Zaheer Abbas etc) ensured that when Pakistan was in doldrums they would stand up and be counted. Asif Iqbal was perhaps the best man to come down at 7 in position of crisis for Pakistan, perhaps even in the history of the game. In 80s you had fringe players like Salim Yousuf, Wasim Raja who fought when chips were down. In 90s it was taken over by folks like Moin and Latif. My point being that yes Pakistan had great players but it was the fire in the belly of the fringe players that made them a dangerous outfit. Most Indians fans would remember than when India lost to Pakistan in 90s it was often due to performances by Aaqib Javed, Mohsin Kamal etc. Not the greatest players but players with good self-beleif. Which is why I say that Pakistan has severely deplted resourced today. Lead bowlers like Sohail Tanveer/Rai Ifthikhar would not hold a candle to someone like Aaqib Javed, and he was hardly a certainty in Pakistan's team of 90s. xxx

You are right but you can't really blame the current lot for not having the fire in the belly.These players have a totally different personality from the ones in the 90s. If you hear people like Aaqib Javed and Moin Khan talk you would immediately sense that they have confidence in themselves. Aaqib in particular is the kind of a person who you won't feel shy from experessing himself even if he was in the same room as Imran Khan, Javed Miandad and Wasim Akram. Compare this to folks like Kamran Akmal and S Malik who look lost while sitting along side the so called seniors and the legends.

[MundaPakistani]

taken from jang “There is a difference, the last (Pakistani) team was much more aggressive than this one,” Dhoni said at a press conference after his team trounced Pakistan in the fourth one-dayer to seal the series. Dhoni also said that on their previous tour of India in 2005, the Pakistanis gave a better show. “They (Pakistan) almost have the same team that came here last year and apart from Inzi (Inzamam-ul-Haq) almost all their key players are here for this series,” he said.