Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 You seem to have a keen ear for the dog whistle, whether real or imagined. Here you go: ^^Paranoid much ? I do actually. I have highlighted something, scroll back and check.
Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Sometime back' date=' I came across this ToI report which says that the GoI is considering abolishing the subsidy, as it should be. The subsidy is nothing but mere symbolism. The topic is very widely discussed, at least in Muslim circles. And more often than not, I've seen people have the opinion that it isn't much of a 'subsidy', its just some retrograde marketing by Air India and leaves people with some material to bash Indian Muslims. A Haji has to shell out roughly Rs 1-1.2 lakhs for a Haj pilgrimage through a GoI sponsored package, even after the subsidy. Flying by Air India is a mandatory part of the package. If you choose the package that the GoI offers, you have to stick with AI. If you choose a private travel agency ( Akbar travels for instance, have had great Haj packages) you end up shelling around Rs 80,000 per person. I don't have statistics with me, but I'm the split- would be close to 50:50. Now coming to the subsidy; the 'subsidy' is on the air travel for the Haji. That is, the flight to Jeddah. Air India prices to Jeddah are a few thousand rupees higher than the prices of other airlines flying to Jeddah. However, if you compare the prices of AI to Riyadh, Dubai, Oman etc and the other places in the Middle East during the Haj season, they are below the prices of the competing airlines. So in effect, Air India hikes up the price and offers a subsidy of ~22k per Haji. De facto this is a subsidy of 14-15k Rs. It is more an Air India subsidy. Its Maharaja, and not minority appeasement. And attracted by this subsidy, the Hajis do provide Air India with substantial business during the period of the pilgrimage. The Govt, wins both ways. It can bail out ( or at least try to) the grossly mismanaged Air India. And to the Muslims, it appears as a messiah offering privileges. That these privileges are totally contra Islamic canon which clearly mentions that the Haj is obligatory only to those who can afford the journey and are physically/mentally capable of undertaking the strain, is totally overlooked. There is nothing pious or helpful in the subsidy. Especially, in the last 4-5 years where many more private operators have organized such tours more efficiently. Its just symbolism. And in India symbolism works big time. Instead of addressing issues that they should address, the GoI played these cheap games to garner some Muslim votes. I can understand that the Congress has played this game for so long to maintain the image they have. What I cannot understand is why the BJP, who have always been using this as a broomstick to lash out at Muslims and their 'preferential' status did not abolish the subsidy during their earlier 5 year tenure. My guess is that they need this issue alive as much as the Congress, to keep their core supporters agitated about something. Anyone with an iota of knowledge about the issue would know about the real problems of Haj Subisidy (air fare manipulation, Muslim scholars against it) and how all political parties play the same game. Here, we had one political party pandering to another section of the society but it's OK. Why? Because we have "wonderful ties" to India in some pre-historic era. Same set of people will then posture about "nationalism" and "loss of perspective".
Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Stop preaching and stop getting personal. you can bend truth according to your liking but I can't? where is Owaisi mentioned in that article? and what the hell is FUD? Here's what you said. At least that one judge is Muslim or else secular vadi Wud start crying foul again.. Back it up or ready to face a comment against it.
Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Even if some one comes from Niticentral' date=' doesn't he/she has the right to express their opinion, or only your opinion counts.[/quote'] Sure and the mods have a right to check up on the IPs too. You have a problem with that?
gattaca Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Some more perspective. Prachanda also enquired about Modi's visit to Pashupatinath temple earlier in the day as he said that ties between the two countries dated back to the times ancient times. Modi's visit to the temple was another highlight of the day as he offered special prayers at the temple. Modi donated 2500 kg of sandalwood to the temple also Rs 25 crore for building a dharamshala. Modi seemed to have used religion to the hilt during his stay in the largely Hindu country. In fact, as senior MEA officials said earlier, the dates for the visit were chosen to coincide with 'sawan somvar' (Monday) which is considered auspicious by the worshippers of Shiva. Modi visited the temple, dressed in a saffron robe, and was accompanied only by his security officials. http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Old-India-critic-Nepals-Maoist-leader-Prachanda-hails-Modis-historic-visit/articleshow/39644462.cms
Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 DM on a rampage Here's my stand - I don't want religious donations. Churches, Mosques, Temples, Buddhist shrines etc. There are local complications for India in an already deeply intermingled fabric of our society. Why meddle? Also, I find it incredibly naive that people are using the "Haj Subisidy" example. Sure, there are other schemes one can talk about for the appeasement of Muslims but I don't think Haj is one amongst them. "Hey look, US/UK do it" - doesn't cut it out for me. There are much smarter ways of dealing with things without playing with fire.
seedhi Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I do actually. I have highlighted something' date= scroll back and check.Well your canine senses seem to have hallucinated a dog-whistle.
seedhi Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 So the "secular" argument seems to be that donating to a temple in Nepal may cause local problems in India. First of all there seems to be a lack of evidence for this claim. Secondly, India has been donating for the upkeep of Buddhist shrines and monuments in parts of Asia. There has never been any issue regarding that. Lastly, in the context of Nepal - the government has full right to use the Hindu heritage of that society to its advantage.
Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 So the "secular" argument seems to be that donating to a temple in Nepal may cause local problems in India. First of all there seems to be a lack of evidence for this claim. Secondly, India has been donating for the upkeep of Buddhist shrines and monuments in parts of Asia. There has never been any issue regarding that. Lastly, in the context of Nepal - the government has full right to use the Hindu heritage of that society to its advantage. You need to understand that I HAVE an issue regarding it - I clearly spelt it out for you in the previous post. I agree with your notion but the use of Hindu heritage to your advantage can be done in umpteen different ways than donating sandalwood to a temple.
seedhi Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 On the broad theme of funding religious activities on foreign shores : AP-funded Jerusalem tour from February Hyderabad: The government-sponsored pilgrimage to the Holy Land of Jerusalem and other Biblical places will most probably take off in February 2014. The scheme was initiated by the YSR government in 2009. It calls for the state government to provide financial assistance of Rs 20,000 per pilgrim to visit the Holy Land in a group of 50-100. Two trips took place in 2009-2010, but then the pilgrimage had to be stopped abruptly due to wrangling over the selection of tour operators. The courts ordered a stay. The stay has been vacated this year and the process for the tour has been initiated once again. “The file pertaining to the sanction of Rs 2 crore is pending with the government. The process is on. Once the file is approved and budget sanctioned, we will initiate steps for selection of tour operators through tenders, and eligible Christians as per the government guidelines,†K. Umashanker, managing director, Andhra Pradesh State Christian (Minorities) Corporation told Deccan Chronicle on Wednesday. He said if all goes well, the next pilgrimage will be in February 2014. Uma Shanker said the minorities’ welfare department had already issued a GO No. 99 on October 19 this year listing the guidelines for providing financial assistance to Christians to undertake the pilgrimage. The Israel government gives a one-week visa and the tour covers places connected with the life of Jesus Christ, such as Bethlehem (birth place of Jesus), Jerusalem (crucifixion, death and resurrection), Nazareth (place of bringing up), Jordan River (place of baptism), the Dead Sea and Sea of Galilee (places of preaching). Groups of 50-100 pilgrims will be taken by the tour operator selected by the tender committee appointed by the government. Assistance is extended to those selected by a screening committee on first come first served basis with preference given to white card holders and aged pilgrims who are physically fit. Those who have been on the pilgrimage with government support before are not eligible to apply. http://www.deccanchronicle.com/131226/news-current-affairs/article/ap-funded-jerusalem-tour-february
Crookbond Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Well your canine senses seem to have hallucinated a dog-whistle. The only hallucination here is equating the word "gift" to "aid".
seedhi Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 The only hallucination here is equating the word "gift" to "aid".That is my interpretation of all the money given to Africa, pakistan, Myanmar and Nepal. You, on the, other hand hallucinated a dog whistle.
seedhi Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 You need to understand that I HAVE an issue regarding it - I clearly spelt it out for you in the previous post.You said the following in post # 108 : There are local complications for India in an already deeply intermingled fabric of our society. Why meddle? Where is the evidence of local complications for India, apart from your personal problem ? I agree with your notion but the use of Hindu heritage to your advantage can be done in umpteen different ways than donating sandalwood to a temple.That is up to the government to decide. Especially people who know a bit about how to use that heritage as a leverage.
Precambrian Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Gifts to temple outside India - Not a problem Haj Subsidy given to Indians - Problem arre wah! Sorry sir, it's not given for spending in India or for Indians but to Saudi Arabia. I don't know if you are deliberately ignoring this aspect. And more than that, it's an exercise in diplomacy to strengthen relationship with a close neighbour sharing a same culture, get it?
Precambrian Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Huj subsidy is for indians. Money given for temple is for a foreign body. Yes but where is hajj performed? They are not spending it in India are they?
Precambrian Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 You need to understand that I HAVE an issue regarding it - I clearly spelt it out for you in the previous post. I agree with your notion but the use of Hindu heritage to your advantage can be done in umpteen different ways than donating sandalwood to a temple. Enlighten us. Please.
Texan Posted August 9, 2014 Author Posted August 9, 2014 A Haji has to shell out roughly Rs 1-1.2 lakhs for a Haj pilgrimage through a GoI sponsored package, even after the subsidy. Flying by Air India is a mandatory part of the package. If you choose the package that the GoI offers, you have to stick with AI. If you choose a private travel agency ( Akbar travels for instance, have had great Haj packages) you end up shelling around Rs 80,000 per person. I don't have statistics with me, but I'm the split- would be close to 50:50. If what you are saying is indeed true, then why do around 120,000 people use this subsidy every year? They must be really stupid to use government subsidy and yet pay more money.
Texan Posted August 9, 2014 Author Posted August 9, 2014 All those arguing that Haj subsidy is money given to Indians do not have their facts right. Money is paid for transportation and lodging (including transportation and lodging within the city of Mecca). So, basically Indian government is paying businesses in Saudi directly and no money is given to any Indian.
Raghav_12 Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Yes but where is hajj performed? They are not spending it in India are they? All those arguing that Haj subsidy is money given to Indians do not have their facts right. Money is paid for transportation and lodging (including transportation and lodging within the city of Mecca). So' date=' basically Indian government is paying businesses in Saudi directly and no money is given to any Indian.[/quote'] This keeps getting weird. So ow subsidy is not for Indians but for Saudi Arabia. By same logic, Indian govt has long subsidized education of IITians, a large number of whom went and stayed in America. So Indian govt was not subsidizing Indians but Americans..:hysterical: Its a news to me and to all of us - Americans live on Indian subsidy. :giggle:. To hell who says America is a developed country.
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