Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Top order failure is one of the two main reasons why we failed. Dhoni's captaincy is the other. Both are not mutually exclusive. Dear me, top order failure caused by Dhoni captaincy... fantastic boss.
zep1706 Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Dear me, top order failure caused by Dhoni captaincy... fantastic boss. That is NOT what I said. Read it again.
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 We lost in the league stages of 3 T20 Wc's with the same captain and more or less the same team what does that tell us. The 4th one in more or less familiar conditions we reached the final in a tournament where Dhoni's contribution was next to nothing as both a player and a captain. So are you telling me all the away series in ODI's-SA,NZ,Eng 2011 and CB series 2012 were insignificant? :hmmmm: And on basis of that we are supposed to beleive that Dhoni's rebuilt team will magically win the Worldcup in Foregin conditions :haha: PS-Also lost to pak at home which no matter how much we ignore is kind of significant Is Ganguly considered as a good captain? How many World cups did he win?
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 That is NOT what I said. Read it again. they are mutually exclusive events - one is reality and the other aconvenient myth.
express bowling Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 , why should Dhoni be blamed for our batsmen performing poorly? When every player in the team starts playing really badly ... not only the out of form players BUT even those who are in form, then it indicates a lack of team spirit. One of the biggest duties of a leader or a captain is to motivate his team. To pull it out of a rut. Give them hope and courage when the going gets tough. Dhoni has completely failed in this regard. Add to this his bizarre captaincy while fielding ...e.g - no third man inspite of giving away 500 runs there, perennially present leg slip, giving genuine quick 9 over spells, etc. etc. Only the fanatic fans will overlook all this.
zep1706 Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 they are mutually exclusive events Tells you everything one needs to know about you. :hysterical: Good bye!
FreakazoiD Posted August 17, 2014 Author Posted August 17, 2014 Is Ganguly considered as a good captain? How many World cups did he win? Dhoni has 8 innings defeats in test cricket, highest for an Indian captain BY FAR. Ganguly has 1. When Dhoni leads India overseas, innings defeats are the norm these days. I don't think even Zimbabwe have lost as many tests by innings in their history as Dhoni has as captain of India.
maniac Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Dear me, top order failure caused by Dhoni captaincy... fantastic boss. So C.T where Dhoni did nothing with the bat was due to his brilliant captaincy and the test series where he was mediocre with the gloves,his full time job but had an above average outing with the bat is due to top order failure :clap: So you might attribute to a captain being as good as a team,which is partly true but what a captain can do when things are not going right is inspire which Dhoni has failed to do with his mindless fieldsettings,and cringe inducing tactics
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Pujara, Rohit Sharma, Gambhir, Kohli, Dhawan 5 batsmen whose selections weren't ridiculed prior to the series, by anyone, instead watched with anticipation and expectation. And what did the fab 5 return between them?: 16 test matches 32 innings 537 runs Batting average 16.78 100s : zero 50: one ducks : five 32 innings in a single series, ****ed up by 5 of our mainstream batsmen. And yet we think Dhoni's captaincy would've saved the team. What a JOKE!
-Robin- Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Yep' date=' we play home tests as well.[/quote'] yes thats why eng destroyed us at home under best captain And where was best captain when we were in winning possition against SA and NZ?
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 So C.T where Dhoni did nothing with the bat was due to his brilliant captaincy and the test series where he was mediocre with the gloves,his full time job but had an above average outing with the bat is due to top order failure :clap: So you might attribute to a captain being as good as a team,which is partly true but what a captain can do when things are not going right is inspire which Dhoni has failed to do with his mindless fieldsettings,and cringe inducing tactics Nowhere I said WC was won solely because of Dhoni nowhere I said CT was won solely of Dhoni Get a grip sir. Read what I am posting.
maniac Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Is Ganguly considered as a good captain? How many World cups did he win? Ganguly captained India to a World CUp final in 2003 in tough conditions,Followed it with a Series drawing effort in Aus and won both ODI and test series in Pak 2004 but by the time it was 2007 time for the next world cup he was Gone-Done and dusted. With Dhoni he has been going on and on and on regardless of all the failures Dhoni seems to be getting away with a lot mroe.
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 yes thats why eng destroyed us at home under best captain And where was best captain when we were in winning possition against SA and NZ? conveniently forget the 4-0 blasting ofthe Ashes winners? and world no1 till recently fellas?
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Ganguly captained India to a World CUp final in 2003 in tough conditions,Followed it with a Series drawing effort in Aus and won both ODI and test series in Pak 2004 but by the time it was 2007 time for the next world cup he was Gone-Done and dusted. With Dhoni he has been going on and on and on regardless of all the failures Dhoni seems to be getting away with a lot mroe. tough conditions? the conditions which allowed Kenya to reach semifinals? What a joke. My qn is how many world cups did Ganguly win how many champions trophy did he win (1 - by rain, we shared didn't win) compare that against the trophy cabinet of Dhoni.
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Dhoni has 8 innings defeats in test cricket, highest for an Indian captain BY FAR. Ganguly has 1. When Dhoni leads India overseas, innings defeats are the norm these days. I don't think even Zimbabwe have lost as many tests by innings in their history as Dhoni has as captain of India. Good stats, what I was looking for. Innings defeats are caused when batsmen behave like kids in the lineup. Dhoni got such batsmen and hence innings defeats.
maniac Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Nowhere I said WC was won solely because of Dhoni nowhere I said CT was won solely of Dhoni Get a grip sir. Read what I am posting. Ok so let me get this straight to understand your context. Are you saying Dhoni as the captain of the team is not accountable? Are you saying his performances in his primary role which is keeping are world class in tests? In ODI's we all have acknowledged as a player he is one of the best there is but in T20's do you think he is the best hitter we have going by his record in internationals by a fair sample size and even considering IPL as a criteria for T20? Are you saying his captaincy is inspiring? Now if your answer is no to all these 4 questions,I apologize for misunderstanding your context and I guess we are on the same page.
maniac Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 tough conditions? the conditions which allowed Kenya to reach semifinals? What a joke. My qn is how many world cups did Ganguly win how many champions trophy did he win (1 - by rain, we shared didn't win) compare that against the trophy cabinet of Dhoni. Well this is not Ganguly vs Dhoni-When Ganguly was not showing the results he was shown the door-2 years after his highest peak. Where as Dhoni has been given a longer rope despite all the failures both as a player and a captain. Why is it a different benchmark here-Fair enough he won the cup and Ganguly didn't So let us extend the leeway to one more year not considering some horrendous results much worse than Ganguly's as Dhoni actually won a cup.....So how much longer for Dhoni ?
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Ok so let me get this straight to understand you are context. Are you saying Dhoni as the captain of the team is not accountable? Are you saying his performances in his primary role which is keeping are world class in tests? In ODI's we all have acknowledged as a player he is one of the best there is but in T20's do you think he is the best hitter we have going by his record in internationals by a fair sample size and even considering IPL as a criteria for T20? Are you saying his captaincy is inspiring? Now if your answer is no to all these 4 questions,I apologize for misunderstanding your context and I guess we are on the same page. A captain is only as good as his team. You can only do so much when you are given a team to work with that has the experience and nous of a Bangaldeshi team. How is Dhoni being chucked out going to make the efforts of our batsmen any better? :facepalm:
Precambrian Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Well this is not Ganguly vs Dhoni-When Ganguly was not showing the results he was shown the door-2 years after his highest peak. Where as Dhoni has been given a longer rope despite all the failures both as a player and a captain. Why is it a different benchmark here-Fair enough he won the cup and Ganguly didn't So let us extend the leeway to one more year not considering some horrendous results much worse than Ganguly's as Dhoni actually won a cup.....So how much longer for Dhoni ? Ganguly still had the core of his team - Sehwag, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble and Zak playing at their near-best even when he was being a joke on and off the field. Dhoni had an ageing toothless senior team, and a yet to be teethed young team on successive tours to England. Huge difference. When did Ganguly go into a test series with his bowlers collectively having less than 30 test wickets between them?
adi B Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Whoa, so how many previous captains won us a World Cup, World T20, the test no.1 ranking, a Champions Trophy, a CB series win in Australia? Which captain other than Dhoni? How many did Ganguly win? Unbelivable people undermining a captain for winning just "1 world t20" cup :cantstop: mate,we are strictly discussing test matches.most of the icfers(easily 80% above) want him to be sacked from test matches,u cant term everyone as idiots.why are you bringing t20s,odis in the mix?he can continue in those formats,he's an odi great no doubt. we have watched his dreadful captaincy over and over again in the away tours for the last 3 years,forget the losses for a moment, his team selections, on field captaincy has been nothing less than uninspiring,insipid ranging from horrible rotation of bowlers,open field to tailenders(especially in that mcg test :facepalm:) etc etc. its not only us but even ex test greats like holding,warne,crowe,boycott etc have been bewildered by dhoni's idiocy on the field..he has to go from the test side,even a sacking from his captain's post would do
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