What must a good test pitch behave like ?

[Ram]

well since you said that our pitches dont produce interesting cricket by and large .... the obvious implication being that there must have been some pitches elsewhere that produced better quality of cricket .. which is why I asked that question.

Please read my previous post where i have sung laurels about the Delhi pitch.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Ram]

2 Teams have yet to bat on this track MM ... and you seem to ignore the fact that the Pak bowlers were bowling literally from the sick bed. And as far as the bounce goes .... most Indian pitches are like this.

Yet, it is this very same Pakistan attack that dismissed Ind for 270 odd in the first innings and reduced it to 93/3 in the sporting pitch of the delhi test match. In the 175 overs that have been bowled in this match, I can literally count by hand the number of balls which beat the edge of the bat or beat the batsman for pace. And you seem to be under the illusion that if Ind dismiss pakistan cheaply, then all is well about the pitch and it is sporting enough. That is not the case. If Pakistan is bundled out cheaply by Ind spinners because of pitch exploding the breaking up, then that makes it an even worse pitch. An ideal pitch is like the one in Delhi, when even on the last session of day 4 ,there was an even contest between bat and ball. This Kolkata pitch is by far one of the worst test pitches i have ever seen. And the thing is, the fortunes could well have been reversed had Pak won the toss, batted first , raked up a huge score and created all sorts of trouble for Ind.

[The Outsider]

You just seem intent on deflecting from the points highlighted debate. I have pointed out VERIFIED facts about the pitch - it has no pace, no bounce, its exploding in parts in the 2nd session of day 2. Yet, you seem more intent of focussing on how bowlers are of bad quality and the batsman have been too good. The Delhi match was so much better to watch, there was always a contest. It gave assistance to seamers throughout and yet spinners like Kumble, Kaneria and Bhajji found enough in it and accounted for 13 of the 34 wickets that fell. Ultimately , the best team won , but the match wasnt decided till the 1st session of day 4. This one has absolutely lifeless and that is why we are seeing such one-sided boring cricket. Such pitches kill test cricket.

I am not deflecting any debate. This Calcutta pitch was no different than prvious Calcutta pitches where teams generally score aroun 400 in the first two innings. Kotal has always been a low scoring track. If you want uniformity in tracks might as well standardized drop in wickets manufactured by Nike thrown in for every match but Test cricket will lose a lot. The fact that 600+ has been score at Calcutta only thrice shows that it was a special effort.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Ram]

I am not deflecting any debate. This Calcutta pitch was no different than prvious Calcutta pitches where teams generally score aroun 400 in the first two innings. Kotal has always been a low scoring track. If you want uniformity in tracks might as well standardized drop in wickets manufactured by Nike thrown in for every match but Test cricket will lose a lot. The fact that 600+ has been score at Calcutta only thrice shows that it was a special effort.

Hain ? Who wants standardized Nike pitches ? And you saying that the "Kolkata pitch always gives 400+ scores for the first two innings" seems as though you are suggesting " its the norm, so lets accept it", but the point i am trying to make is - " The norm itself is wrong". And how hard it could be to prepare true, hard pitches with a smattering of grass. Surely it isnt rocket Science, yet curators all over the world prepare dead-pans that absolutely kill competition between bat and ball.

[The Outsider]

Hain ? Who wants standardized Nike pitches ? And you saying that the "Kolkata pitch always gives 400+ scores for the first two innings" seems as though you are suggesting " its the norm, so lets accept it", but the point i am trying to make is - " The norm itself is wrong". And how hard it could be to prepare true, hard pitches with a smattering of grass. Surely it isnt rocket Science, yet curators all over the world prepare dead-pans that absolutely kill competition between bat and ball.

What you are implying is that the sub-standard Pakistan bowling attack and superb batting by the Indians had nothing to do with our 600+ score and the pitch is to be blamed for it. Do you honestly think Pakistan would have made 600 on this track with their batting and out bowling if they batted first?

[Ram]

Did Shoaib bowl from the sick bed in Delhi ? Never mind Sami .... he actually was more economical here .... :D Danish Kaneria was getting the ball to turn even on Day one .... its a different matter that he was up against some of the best batsmen there are out there.

And we all saw how totally ineffective Zaheer Khan and Munaf looked in the few overs they bowled. And the spinners bowled more than half of the first 14 overs bowled in the pakistan innings.That nullifies your argument about the ill-health of the Pak pacers. Bottom line - there is nothing in this pitch for the pacers.

And you seem to think that we would have also been bundled out cheaply had we batted on day 3 ' date=' 4 or 5 ? or That Pak would have also made 600 had they batted first ?[/quote'] On such a pitch, there is every chance that had Pakistan batted first, they would have scored huge too.

[Ram]

What you are implying is that the sub-standard Pakistan bowling attack and superb batting by the Indians had nothing to do with our 600+ score and the pitch is to be blamed for it.

No what i am implying is that the substandard pakistan bowling AND the lifeless nature of the pitch combined together has produced some of the most one-sided boring test match cricket that i have seen in recent times. Cast your mind to only a week ago when this very same Pak attack dismissed Ind for 270 on a sporting Delhi track and you will know what i am talking about.

Do you honestly think Pakistan would have made 600 on this track with their batting and out bowling if they batted first?

That is just mere speculation, for which no one can come up with a definite answer for. But i am quite sure they would have made a sizeable score too.

[The Outsider]

Bottom line - there is nothing in this pitch for the pacers.

Maybe not, right now. But there is always something for the pacers in the early hours of a Calcutta test specially on day one. Of course you won't get that something from the pitch if you use an asthmatic attack. Watch how Zaheer winkles out a couple in the pre-Lunch session tomorrow if fit on a 3rd day track.

On such a pitch, there is every chance that had Pakistan batted first, they would have scored huge too.

Sorry Sriram, but can't hold my laughter on this statement suggesting Pakistan would hav made 600 here.:hysterical:

[The Outsider]

Cast your mind to only a week ago when this very same Pak attack dismissed Ind for 270 on a sporting Delhi track and you will know what i am talking about.

If you just want to read off names from the scorecard, yes it was the same attack, but if you watched the matches you would realize how different their only consistent wicket taking threat was between Delhi and Calcutta.

[Ram]

Maybe not' date=' right now. But there is always something for the pacers in the early hours of a Calcutta test specially on day one. Of course you won't get that something from the pitch if you use an asthmatic attack. Watch how Zaheer winkles out a couple in the pre-Lunch session tomorrow if fit on a 3rd day track.[/quote'] And that is your hope, which wont materialize. And i cant possibly imagine how a pitch can actually offer more assistance to pacers as time goes on , as inferred by your " maybe not, right now" comment.

Sorry Sriram' date=' but can't hold my laughter on this statement suggesting Pakistan would hav made 600 here.:hysterical:[/quote'] I never said they will make 600, i said they would make a sizeable score, which this batting line-up is fully capable of against our bowling in this pitch.

[Gambit]

The bottomline is that Pak bowled very very very poorly on day 1. Traditionally Day 1 offers a lot of assistance to seam bowlers at Eden. Even people like Ganguly have managed to take 3fers(v OZ) on the 1st day. Srinath broke Australia's back on the 1st day of the '98 series test and smoked Pak's top order in '99. Pakistan just didn't bowl well. Actor as usual huffed and puffed and didn't bowl much. Tanvir repeatedly bowled on the leg stump line. No matter where in the world you bowl, if you bowl that line, Indian batsmen will put you away. Sami is incapable of taking test wickets anywhere in the universe. We also witnessed a terrific knock from WJ who didn't let Kaneria settle, especially after tea. And if your pacers don't take top order Indian wickets, no way in hell are your spinners going to run through an Indian batting lineup. All in all, Day 1 usually fetches a good wicket haul for the bowling side at Eden but poor bowling from Pak and awesome batting from the Indians are responsible for the current score. Day 2 was a natural consequence of India's great batting on day 1.

[PaiN_KiLLeR]

This pitch is a belter, so are majority of the pitches in OZ. But watching knee level cricket on these slow and low tracks is not as entertaining as watching the high scoring games in OZ.

[The Outsider]

I never said they will make 600, i said they would make a sizeable score, which this batting line-up is fully capable of against our bowling in this pitch.

Okay. So you have a problem with India scoring 600+ and blame it on the pitch. Pakistan have played 30+ tests in India and have NEVER score 600. In fact only once have they got past 500.

And that is your hope, which wont materialize. And i cant possibly imagine how a pitch can actually offer more assistance to pacers as time goes on , as inferred by your " maybe not, right now" comment.

Exactly my point. When Zaheer dismisses these incompetent Pakistan batsmen during the course of the match, you will no longer be left with the excuse of a poor pitch. Despite the fact that it's a 3rd day pitch, I am still backing Zaheer to pick up a couple before lunch if he is fit.

[The Outsider]

The bottomline is that Pak bowled very very very poorly on day 1. Traditionally Day 1 offers a lot of assistance to seam bowlers at Eden. Even people like Ganguly have managed to take 3fers(v OZ) on the 1st day. Srinath broke Australia's back on the 1st day of the '98 series test and smoked Pak's top order in '99. Pakistan just didn't bowl well. Actor as usual huffed and puffed and didn't bowl much. Tanvir repeatedly bowled on the leg stump line. No matter where in the world you bowl, if you bowl that line, Indian batsmen will put you away. Sami is incapable of taking test wickets anywhere in the universe. We also witnessed a terrific knock from WJ who didn't let Kaneria settle, especially after tea. And if your pacers don't take top order Indian wickets, no way in hell are your spinners going to run through an Indian batting lineup. All in all, Day 1 usually fetches a good wicket haul for the bowling side at Eden but poor bowling from Pak and awesome batting from the Indians are responsible for the current score. Day 2 was a natural consequence of India's great batting on day 1.

Very well summarized, Gambit. You cannot have your pace spearhead bowl 4 half hearted overs before lunch on the first day and then complain about the pitch,

[Dhoni's English]

In a short sentence. Nearly every Aussie pitch is a very very decent test track.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[SlenderFrame]

Seeing this Kolkata pitch, it left me terribly disappointed. As many experts have pointed out earlier, a Good pitch is one that offers a contest between the bat and ball. Hardly anybody likes to a see cricket match when the teams rattle up 600+ scores without breaking a sweat, which is India did in the last 2 days. They didnt even look like losing a wicket and established test players like Shoaib, Kaneria had almost zero influence. There was absolutely no pace or bounce in this track. The worst part was, it was breaking up on day 2 itself, with mini-explosions everytime the ball landed in some spots. If this trend is going to continue, it may make batting VERY difficult for teams batting 3rd and last. If a pitch were to give such an unfair advantage to the team batting first, it is quite unfair on the other team. A good test pitch must have something in it for the seamers in the first 2 sessions of day 1, flatten out for batting in days 2 and 3 , and offer assistance to spinners on days 4 and 5. Unfortunately, very rarely do we see such pitches off late. They are either completely loaded in favor of the batsman or the bowlers, diluting the quality of test cricket.

Excellent post. The toss has decided the match but to be fair Pakistan havent bothered to show up this test. As for good test wickets, the 1st test wicket was excellent

[Ram]

Okay. So you have a problem with India scoring 600+ and blame it on the pitch. Pakistan have played 30+ tests in India and have NEVER score 600. In fact only once have they got past 500.

You are deeply mistaken. What i have problem with is with the absolute lack of contest between bat and ball in this track, to the point where Dhoni making a 50 almost seemed a formality. Now, whether that is due to poor quality pak bowling or the lifeless nature of the pitch or both is something nobody can say with certainty, but what i do know is that the pitch didnt offer too much assistance to pacers, which is vital to make test match cricket entertaining. And contrast this with the Delhi test match, where even many of our posters acknowledged it as the return of test match cricket. It was so entertaining to watch as a spectator. This one is just plain boring.

Exactly my point. When Zaheer dismisses these incompetent Pakistan batsmen during the course of the match, you will no longer be left with the excuse of a poor pitch. Despite the fact that it's a 3rd day pitch, I am still backing Zaheer to pick up a couple before lunch if he is fit.

Lets see if that happens.