What must a good test pitch behave like ?

[The Outsider]

You are deeply mistaken. What i have problem with is with the absolute lack of contest between bat and ball in this track, to the point where Dhoni making a 50 almost seemed a formality. Now, whether that is due to poor quality pak bowling or the lifeless nature of the pitch or both is something nobody can say with certainty, but what i do know is that the pitch didnt offer too much assistance to pacers, which is vital to make test match cricket entertaining.

You might not be able to say it with certainty, Sriram, but I can - the fact that India piled on so many runs with such ease has got a lot to do with our quality batsmen and Pakistan's crap bowling attack. You put Nepal against India on any pitch and it is still not going to be a contest. When you say that the pitch did not offer any assistance to the pacers, let me ask you a question - which pacer did you see in action till now?

And contrast this with the Delhi test match, where even many of our posters acknowledged it as the return of test match cricket. It was so entertaining to watch as a spectator. This one is just plain boring.

If this test is boring then so are 90% of the test that Australia plays. The only bowler who was effective at Kotla from Pakistan was huffing and puffing after 10 deliveries, what did you expect, a nail biter?

[Predator_05]

An ideal test pitch would be; 1. A pitch on which India's batsmen can score 500+ 2. A pitch on which India's seamers and spinners can bundle out the opposition for <150 Any pitch which cannot produce the aforementioned results should be dug up and bombed (several times).

[Mr. Wicket]

Huh? What a waste of a thread! There is nothing wrong with the Calcutta pitch. When you have two asthma patients and one uncoordinated specimen doing the bowling backed up with a left arm "seamer" bowling orthodox "spin", this is going to be the result. Just watch how Pakistan go to stumps at least 7 down by stumps tomorrrow.

THANK YOU! And for me, a single 'good test pitch' would make cricket boring. I enjoy variety. It's fun to see a flatbed from time to time, a few bouncy, quick pitches, the odd greentop when the ball seams and swings around for a while or dusty, up-and-down turners where the ball can rip square or kick up viciously on the last day or two. Always good to see how teams can adapt to various conditions and situations. The pitches this series have been pretty good IMO. The Delhi track was excellent - a bit in it for the seamers, a fair bit for the spinners as the game went on, while good batsmen were always able to make runs. This has been a little more batsman-friendly, but not over the top in that sense. Ball's still done a little in the air when new and there's been turn and even on day 2, the odd ball bouncing a bit awkwardly.

[sm332]

What rubbish!! We have scored 700+ in Australia on the back of the same batting lineup. Trust me' date=' there are no bigger pattas in world cricket than Aussie pitches.[/quote'] well said ... this 'everything Oz is great' syndrome is very dangerous ... they produce some absolute nonsense tracks, doctor pitches like nobody's business and yet all one eyed pansies seem to ignore that

[sm332]

THANK YOU! And for me, a single 'good test pitch' would make cricket boring. I enjoy variety. It's fun to see a flatbed from time to time, a few bouncy, quick pitches, the odd greentop when the ball seams and swings around for a while or dusty, up-and-down turners where the ball can rip square or kick up viciously on the last day or two. Always good to see how teams can adapt to various conditions and situations. The pitches this series have been pretty good IMO. The Delhi track was excellent - a bit in it for the seamers, a fair bit for the spinners as the game went on, while good batsmen were always able to make runs. This has been a little more batsman-friendly, but not over the top in that sense. Ball's still done a little in the air when new and there's been turn and even on day 2, the odd ball bouncing a bit awkwardly.

Very well put Salil ... the Ox tracks have become very dissapointing ... I think some of the best tracks going around today are SL and SA .... albeit SA tracks have no assistance for spinners usually. Delhi was a fantastic track ... all scores between 225-300 .. something for everyone

[Ram]

God save test cricket if you guys think the Kolkata pitch is a good one. There is no semblance of a contest between bat and ball and i expect this trend to continue, only in the reverse fashion. Expect mini-explosions as though someone lobbed hand-grenades on the pitch everytime the ball landed on it on days 4 and 5.

[Mr. Wicket]

And contrast this with the Delhi test match' date=' where even many of our posters acknowledged it as the return of test match cricket. It was so entertaining to watch as a spectator. This one is just plain boring.[/quote'] Eh, a lot of the praise for the Delhi test came because the game went back and forth. A lot of that was due to both teams' failings. - Pakistan fight back from 142/8 to 231 - some poor bowling and fielding from India and the typical 'foot off the throat when the tail's in' approach. Harbhajan bowling fairly defensively, Munaf never really threatening, etc. - India suddenly going from 70/1 to 93/5 to 'open up the game' - some very poor cricket from us, rather than outstanding work from Pak. Tendulkar needlessly run out, Ganguly and Dravid both out to poor strokes... - India collapsing again at the lower end to curtail the lead to 45 - not great, entertaining, 'back and forth' cricket but GUTLESS CRAP from the tailenders. Laxman at one end batting serenely, red mist down the other end with idiotic shots and swipes for no reason. - Pakistan's tail coming undone on day 4 - more moronic batting from them (starting with Akmal and Tanvir, right down to Misbah's crazy slog v. Ganguly) rather than real brilliance. India have been a MUCH better team than Pakistan this series... the game at Delhi was fun to watch, no doubt - but both teams missed a lot of opportunities to seal the game when they were dominating, playing fairly poorly instead and letting the other side right back in. Here it's been much less of a contest, but a much more impressive display by India - instead of f*cking up when they've been on top, all the batsmen (bar Karthik) have really worked hard to keep the pressure on Pakistan, grind them down and build a big total. That's how test cricket's supposed to be played , rather than letting the opposition back in to make it a contest. Might not be pretty on the eyes, but it's bloody effective and should get results.

[Ram]

^ Its quite easy to speak in hindsight isnt it ? Put all the blame on the cricketers for playing "poor" cricket, without ever acknowledging that the pitch had an important role to play in most of the dismissals. And just as aq snapshot, in the Pakistani first innings of the Delhi test match Salman Butt : Bowled by Zaheer Khan off a ball that jagged back sharply from outside off to hit top of off Younis Khan : Surprised by a bouncer that rose sharply and higher than he anticipated Mohammed Yousuf : Beaten repeatedly by Saurav Ganguly before the same bowler ultimately snared with one that pitched on off-stump, came in and hit him in front of middle-stump Shoaib Malik : Caught behind off a peach off a delivery from Munaf that straightened and bounced after pitching. Now contrast this with the Indian first innings wickets in the Kolkata match Karthik : Left arm over , just angling away, just edged it, bad batting Dravid : Was actually not out. Sachin : Falied to pick a wrong one Jaffer : Same left arm over, no appreciable movement, just beaten by the angle Ganguly : Down the track and top-edged a big shot. Have we seen a SINGLE delivery that moved off the seam or offered good bounce to the pacers ? And you tell me its all because of "poor" cricket.. Well..

[The Outsider]

Its quite easy to speak in hindsight isnt it ? Put all the blame on the cricketers for playing "poor" cricket, without ever acknowledging that the pitch had an important role to play in most of the dismissals.

No hindsight here, Sriram. I am predicting the Pakistani batsmen to crumble over the next couple of days on the same track and there won't be any discernible difference in it at least on day 3. PS : You still haven't answered my question. Which pace bowler have you seen in action during the Test to ascertain the pitch did not suit pace?

[jaideep]

this is the only series where our so called legendary batsmen can fill in their boots..with the tour down under cominng up the batting line up will come a cropper and i will not be surprised with reputations shattered and retirements being hastened on our so called legends

[Ram]

No hindsight here' date=' Sriram. I am predicting the Pakistani batsmen to crumble over the next couple of days on the same track and there won't be any discernible difference in it at least on day 3.[/quote'] I agree to what you are saying Shwetabh, that there is a qualitative difference between the Ind and Pak batsman. I guess how Pak fares in their 1st innings will clear all the doubts.

[Ram]

PS : You still haven't answered my question. Which pace bowler have you seen in action during the Test to ascertain the pitch did not suit pace?

I have seen 5 different pacers operate on this pitch and none of them have come close to having even a remote effect on the proceedings. Akhtar ( half of him) was totally out of color, Sami couldnt even wake up the Ind batsman from their sleep, Tanvir didnt threaten too much, Munaf looked totally pedestrian and was spanked around. Zaheer didnt bowl enough to come to judgments about him.

[The Outsider]

I have seen 5 different pacers operate on this pitch and none of them have come close to having even a remote effect on the proceedings. Akhtar ( half of him) was totally out of color, Sami couldnt even wake up the Ind batsman from their sleep, Tanvir didnt threaten too much, Munaf looked totally pedestrian and was spanked around. Zaheer didnt bowl enough to come to judgments about him.

Akhtar and Munaf are unfit to play Tests in their current state. Tanvir and Sami will not be effective Test bowlers even at Durban. That leaves Zaheer who has hardly bowled and I back him to pick up his fair share of wickets.

[fineleg]

And we all saw how totally ineffective Zaheer Khan and Munaf looked in the few overs they bowled. And the spinners bowled more than half of the first 14 overs bowled in the pakistan innings.That nullifies your argument about the ill-health of the Pak pacers. Bottom line - there is nothing in this pitch for the pacers. On such a pitch, there is every chance that had Pakistan batted first, they would have scored huge too.

MM, This pitch gets a 6 out of 10 points. Delhi pitch gets a 7.5 out of 10. This pitch while not ideal is not the worst by any means. Zaheer Khan: seemed off color yesterday - lets see how he bowls morning of day-3. Munaf Grandpa Patel: On any pitch he is going to trundle, grrrrr.

[Ram]

Akhtar and Munaf are unfit to play Tests in their current state. Tanvir and Sami will not be effective Test bowlers even at Durban. That leaves Zaheer who has hardly bowled and I back him to pick up his fair share of wickets.

MM, This pitch gets a 6 out of 10 points. Delhi pitch gets a 7.5 out of 10. This pitch while not ideal is not the worst by any means. Zaheer Khan: seemed off color yesterday - lets see how he bowls morning of day-3. Munaf Grandpa Patel: On any pitch he is going to trundle, grrrrr.

How good or bad this pitch is, we shall soon know when our bowlers bowl

[The Outsider]

How good or bad this pitch is' date=' we shall soon know when our bowlers bowl[/quote'] Problem is that you have covered both angles. If we struggle to pick up wickets the pitch sucks as it is a batting paradise, if we do pick up wickets it's worse because it became bowler friendly after 2 days.

[Ram]

Problem is that you have covered both angles. If we struggle to pick up wickets the pitch sucks as it is a batting paradise' date=' if we do pick up wickets it's worse because it became bowler friendly after 2 days.[/quote'] My qualm with this pitch has been clearly spelt out - There is nothing in it for the pacers and i still maintain the same even now. That opinion will change only if either or Zaheer or Munaf manage to pick some wickets or atleast look like picking wickets, unlike their pakistani counterparts, who didnt even look like picking a wicket.

[Mr. Wicket]

Pakistan's pacers wouldn't have looked like picking up a wicket unless the time and place changed to Hamilton in 2002...

[Rajiv]

[fineleg]

Rajeev? What is that :D ?