My major fear with Kirsten as coach

[Gambit]

Since, for the major part of his cricketing career, he had Woolmer as his coach, I feel that somehow at the back of his mind, he might think that bits and pieces cricketers a.l.a Jogi/JP Yadav/Sodhi etc are the key to ODI and maybe (gulp!) test success. I just hope and pray he doesn't start to recommend the selection of such non starters. Nothing succeeds like pure good specialists. We don't want a mediocre batsman/bowler when we can have a good batsman or a good bowler in his place. We do not want a middle order packed with such individuals simply because we don't have the Kluseners, McMillans, Pollocks, Kallises or even Halls that Kirsten played with.

[fineleg]

I agree. However, we tried Jogi even when we did not have anyone as coach. Problem is more in ODIs where we are hunting for allrounders. Unfortunately the ODI and 2020s are well suited for GOOD allrounders. In our perennial quest to find one, we try out the Jogis and Yusuf Pathans et al. We do need one more all rounder apart from Irfan Pathan in ODIs. So, I guess in certain series, we will continue to experiment. Unfortunately, the allrounders we have seen so far like Jogi are not good at all. When IKP is out of form or injured (not now, but we suffered through this), we are so desperately devoid of allrounders.

[Chandan]

Woolmer was a person with a very defensive mindset. I hope Kirsten is not like that and helps out Kumble and Dhoni who are both quite attacking players and captains too, it seems!

[Chandan]

I agree. However' date=' [b']we tried Jogi even when we did not have anyone as coach. Problem is more in ODIs where we are hunting for allrounders. Unfortunately the ODI and 2020s are well suited for GOOD allrounders. In our perennial quest to find one, we try out the Jogis and Yusuf Pathans et al. We do need one more all rounder apart from Irfan Pathan in ODIs. So, I guess in certain series, we will continue to experiment. Unfortunately, the allrounders we have seen so far like Jogi are not good at all. When IKP is out of form or injured (not now, but we suffered through this), we are so desperately devoid of allrounders.

When did we try Jogi in an ODI?

[fineleg]

When did we try Jogi in an ODI?

oops 2020 - i guess we tried RS Sodhi and JPY for ODIs, but we had coach then

[SachDan]

Fineleg,u r fine alright? how many oops from u daily???????

[fineleg]

Fineleg' date='u r fine alright? how many oops from u daily???????[/quote'] I thought he had played ODIs - but was mistaken.

[SachDan]

sorry mate.just...

[zubinpepsi]

When did we try Jogi in an ODI?

he played in an ODI against WI i guess..

[zubinpepsi]

Joginder sharma ODI Stats Bowling averages Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10w 4 4 150 115 1 1/28 1/28 115.00 4.60 150.0 0 0 0 Batting and fielding averages Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 4 3 2 35 29* 35.00 30 116.66 0 0 5 0 3 0 ODI debut Bangladesh v India at Chittagong (MAA), Dec 23, 2004 scorecard Last ODI India v West Indies at Cuttack, Jan 24, 2007 scorecard

[THX_1138]

I have always felt that though phenomenal in the 90s, once he left South Africa, he was never the avant garde that he was celebrated as, especially by pakistan. Infact, i initially feared that he would transform pakistan into another south africa and we would decend into a deja vu of the days where pakistan with its controversial pace battery toyed with us with absolute impunity. however, a combination of used tricks, lack of imagination, persistence with some douche bags and good ole pakistan helped settle those concerns. having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that kirsten will bring some of his own originality to the job but the influence of woolmer will be undeniable. kirsten might be his own man, but most of his success came under people such as woolmer and the former south african captain (keith rutherford if i recall correctly). and both these two men's time in office saw a number of promising allrounders, just another euphemism in my opinion for a person who is neither a full bowler, nor a full batsman. thankfully or unthankfully we have few or none such players. all our purpoted allrounders are either bowlers who can throw the wood about or batsmen who can turn their hands over. in either cases, they are unlikely to establish themselves as a genuine allrounder. and thus, while we can expect some opportunities showered at people who really do try, expect some frustrating failures. in the end, the formula the works for india, and has promise for the future is not allrounders, irrespective of how indispensible they might be for the rest of the world's team; indian success can always be attributed (since the departure of kapil dev, mohinder amarnath, and manoj prabhakar) to players who excel at one skill: batting (tendulkar, dravid, ganguly, azharudin, sehwag, jadeja, yuvraj) or bowling (srinath, kumble, prasad, harbhajan, pathan, sreesanth). lets quit this infatuation with allrounders. pakistan has had several allrounders, all infinitely better than the ones we have produced any time recently: abdul razzaq, afridi being the notable two; but these are the very players who led to the team's downfall. one saw his bowling diminish into benign pancake tosses while his batting was about as reliable as rolling a pair of snake eyes, whereas the other tried his best to extract all that he could from the single neuron he calls a brain and while his bowling might have improved for the standards of pakistani ODI bowlers, his batting is much like that of a dsylexic cow lasher. hence, expect joginder to get a shot, maybe even yusuf pathan. but expect them to stay only if they develop one reliable skill. yusuf pathan promises to be a decent lower order batsman, and he can share 3 overs with the 5th bowling option, i am more than happy. rarely do any indian allrounders set the world ablaze.