All time best ODI team

[midge]

I agree about Faulkner being the right type of player for the role. But, it is best to pick players who have performed over atleast 8 / 10 years. Many have been unable to maintain fitness or focus or motivation or get carried away with the fame, money etc. after playing like a dream for 2 to 3 years. But, this topic is bringing out a lot of interesting facts for sure.:two_thumbs_up:

Agree with you completely. Everyone is bringing different perspective to the table which is quite refreshing. Thanks everyone:two_thumbs_up:

[midge]

You have to take Kapil into context, the strike rate he had for that era, he's still doing better than most today, as far as average again it has to be put into context of era, not to mention that 175 under pressure in the World Cup, not many batsmen let alone all rounders can boast of such a high ODI score. Close race between kapil and klusener imo, klusener the more consistent batsman but kapil's strike rate somewhat balances that out a bit plus his ability to score well in crucial matches. Bowling wise kapil is ahead. The batting strike rate brings me to Gilly, now his averages of 35 isn't the greatest, but taking it into context in era he was doing really well. His strike rate is up there with the best of today's like kapil but his average is lower, we still put Gilly right up there for all time great ODI openers despite a large gap in average e.g. Difference with tendulkar, amla and dilshan (as an opener he's averaging about 45+). You can't just say kapil's average was low and drop him because of that otherwise Gilly shouldn't be considered, jayasuriya shouldn't be considered etc.

Instead of stats, how people played when their team needed them and how consistently they delivered should be the criteria for selecting any team; of course over a long period of time. If it happens so, decision making will be very easy. That's how I feel personally. Having said that, everyone is entitled to their views. After all, we are trying to know how each one of us will approach this exercise. And, that's the fun part:haha:

[midge]

Interestingly kapil faced 3979 balls in ODIs and klusener faced 3977 balls' date=' kapil ended up with 207 runs more than klusener.[/quote'] Thanks for sharing the stats. This conversation keeps getting better with time. Learning so much in the process.:two_thumbs_up:

[thongale]

Interestingly kapil faced 3979 balls in ODIs and klusener faced 3977 balls' date=' kapil ended up with 207 runs more than klusener.[/quote']Over 198 innings for Kapil vs 137 for Klusener. Klusener laster nearly 35% more time than Kapil at crease. Average of 24 vs 41 is basically a non starter. To make the comparison more fair we need to take in to account the era they played.

Name 	 	Avg 	SR 	 AvgO 	SRO
Kapil 	 	23.79 	95.02 	26.24 	65.8
Klusener 	41.10 	89.91 	27.52 	72.5
Overall 	27.62 	73.15

 	 	AdjAvg 	 AdjSR 	 	AdjAvg x AdjSR/100
Kapil 	 	25.04 	 105.63 	 	26.45
Klusener 	41.24 	 90.71 	 	 	37.41

Which shows Klusener was about 40% more effective with the bat than Kapil.

[Muloghonto]

Between Dhoni at #6 and Kapil at #7,i don't think we have much issues with finishing. The Gilly argument is very telling- if Gilchrist can be considered in an ATG lineup with a 35 average, where people with better averages are left out, why can't the same metric be applied to Kapil ? A #7 has a very specific job: 90% of the time, that job is to bash 20 runs in 15 balls, 10% of the time, its to knuckle down and score a decent total due to top order collapses. Kapil has proven this ability better than anyone- including Klusener. In a crunch, i think Kapil has more knocks from the lower order as a rescue job than Klusener does. As for bowling, it is no comparison- comparing Kapil and Zulu is like comparing Warne and Kaneria. One is good, the other one is an ATG. The other thing to consider is the bowling attack. Too often, i have noticed, the difference between armchair critics like us and actual players/coaches selecting their XIs is that they tend to account for the whole bowling unit and construct a great bowling unit rather than a collection of great bowlers. What do i mean by this ? Let me explain- stats may say so, but there is no real point in including McGrath AND Ambrose or Waqar AND Donald - they are virtual mirror images of each other in strengths, weaknesses and results. Bowling attack has to account for all scenarios and this is also what Kapil brings to the table. In my lineup, we have: Akram - ideal conditions are bouncy & seamy wickets where he was unplayable but Akram is the true all-weather specialist in this lineup. Bowls fast & skiddy, with the occasional riser and super-fast one, relies on swing and movement off the pitch. Ambrose: The McGrath who was better at it than McGrath: a 4th stump specialist who got more bounce and was slightly faster, comes with a wicked yorker (IMO Ambrose had the most precise yorkers of all) and off-cutters. Unplayable on bouncy wickets, mostly unhittable without serious risk taking. Donald: The slightly more resilient and slightly more consistent version of Waqar. Attack the stumps bowler with good off pitch movement, bowled at consistent 90-91mph zone. Kapil: Fast medium, relied on good movement off the pitch both ways and an action that made it hard to read the inswinger or the out swinger. Thrived on two-paced wickets, After Akram, the best guy to thrive on spin-friendly wickets for a pacer. A miserly bowler who also compliments the likes of aggressive Akram/Donald and the metronomic consistency of Ambrose. This category has a few ODI giants in them - Kapil, Pollock, Hadlee, devilliers (Fanie) come to mind. I'd say Pollock was a slightly better ODI bowler, Hadlee was about the same and deVilliers was slightly worse. But Kapil is the best fit for #7 out of these guys.

[Muloghonto]

My friend I am not saying Kapil is a lesser player. But when we look from the overall balance perspective' date=' you got to have good finishers in the team. People like Klusener give you tremendous flexibility; they can open the batting, and play right up to No. 10 slot and still get the job done for you. Isn't that amazing? A simple google search for best finishers; and you see Klusener and Bevan in almost every list, in fact, most people will rate Bevan as the greatest finisher the game has ever seen.[/quote'] I disagree, i think Dhoni is the greatest finisher the game has ever seen. Bevan's average is more incredible than Dhoni's, i will admit that, but ODIs is far more than just an averages game. Dhoni brings to the table the ultimate menu for finishers: Top notch crunch-time performances - batting first or second. Uncanny ability to stick around to the very end, often making bowlers lose their nerve near the end as a result, ability to pace an innings, ability to knuckle down and score 75-80 strike rate for a bit and then accelerate, ability to just blast it out of the park like no tomorrow. Very good at stealing & creating singles, very solid runner between the wickets. Equally good against top quality pace & spin on any type of wicket. Bevan has most of these, but lacks a big tool- the ability to hit big. Bevan is NOT the guy to chase when the NRR climbed to 6.5-7+ in his time frame, Dhoni on the other hand can chase down 9-10 RRR even with 10+ overs to go. Bevan was basically a Dhoni who couldn't hit boundaries and thus, Dhoni on valium kinda payer. Amazing runner between the wickets- probably the fastest runner aside from Jonty Rhodes between the wickets and also an excellent gauge of singles. But he is the guy to come in and take you home every single time when its smooth sailings- at 150/3 after 30 overs, chasing 280 ? Bevan will get you there, mate no probs- ends up with 75 off of 100 balls with 2 fours and 0 sixes. So no, i think Bevan misses out, though narrowly.

[rtmohanlal]

Over 198 innings for Kapil vs 137 for Klusener. Klusener laster nearly 35% more time than Kapil at crease. Average of 24 vs 41 is basically a non starter. To make the comparison more fair we need to take in to account the era they played.

Name 	 	Avg 	SR 	 AvgO 	SRO
Kapil 	 	23.79 	95.02 	26.24 	65.8
Klusener 	41.10 	89.91 	27.52 	72.5
Overall 	27.62 	73.15

 	 	AdjAvg 	 AdjSR 	 	AdjAvg x AdjSR/100
Kapil 	 	25.04 	 105.63 	 	26.45
Klusener 	41.24 	 90.71 	 	 	37.41

Which shows Klusener was about 40% more effective with the bat than Kapil.

you have to take into account the work load of Kapil here. he played 131 tests too apart from 225 one dayers. keep in mind Kapil played 198 inns to Klus's 137 . I am not saying Kapil is better to Klusener just for this fact. but we have to take all factors into account to reach a conclusion as to who was the better of the two. I know it is not at all easy based on the fact that they were multi dimensional players from different eras. but... otherwise it is huge injustice to Kapil

[gazza]

Everyone has a different perspective and it depends on team dynamic, I'd prefer 5 genuine top notch bowlers especially in an ATG team against the best. I've got tendulkar, gilchrist, viv, de villiers, hussey and dhoni ahead of the number 7 so for me the bowling takes precedence. If you wanted both could make the team, even someone like shakib for an another quality spin option could work, 2 all rounders one bats 6 the other bats 7.

[midge]

I disagree, i think Dhoni is the greatest finisher the game has ever seen. Bevan's average is more incredible than Dhoni's, i will admit that, but ODIs is far more than just an averages game. Dhoni brings to the table the ultimate menu for finishers: Top notch crunch-time performances - batting first or second. Uncanny ability to stick around to the very end, often making bowlers lose their nerve near the end as a result, ability to pace an innings, ability to knuckle down and score 75-80 strike rate for a bit and then accelerate, ability to just blast it out of the park like no tomorrow. Very good at stealing & creating singles, very solid runner between the wickets. Equally good against top quality pace & spin on any type of wicket. Bevan has most of these, but lacks a big tool- the ability to hit big. Bevan is NOT the guy to chase when the NRR climbed to 6.5-7+ in his time frame, Dhoni on the other hand can chase down 9-10 RRR even with 10+ overs to go. Bevan was basically a Dhoni who couldn't hit boundaries and thus, Dhoni on valium kinda payer. Amazing runner between the wickets- probably the fastest runner aside from Jonty Rhodes between the wickets and also an excellent gauge of singles. But he is the guy to come in and take you home every single time when its smooth sailings- at 150/3 after 30 overs, chasing 280 ? Bevan will get you there, mate no probs- ends up with 75 off of 100 balls with 2 fours and 0 sixes. So no, i think Bevan misses out, though narrowly.

So now it's Bevan vs Dhoni:winky: Both Dhoni and Bevan belong to a different generation. While Bevan belonged to an era where any score over 270 was considered challenging, Dhoni is part of a generation where any score is attainable, thanks to the emergence of T20 Cricket. Not to mention the emergence of powerplay rules, smaller grounds, modern bats and frequent ODI games. Both Dhoni and Bevan are very good finishers, and Dhoni is certainly a bigger hitter than Bevan, but for me Bevan remains the all-time best, closely followed by Dhoni. Bevan bailed out the Australian team from impossible situations many a times. The consistency with which he won games for Australia is what made him special. Bevan’s ODI career is decorated with numerous match-winning finishes. He was extremely good at handling pressure, and terrific when it came to batting with tail-enders and getting the job done. Some of his memorable innings: At SCG in 1996, almost single-handedly pulled Australia out of the doldrums when they were 74 for seven, chasing 173 against W.Indies. He scored 78 from 89 balls and took Australia home with a boundary off the last ball of the match. At SCG in 2002, against Kiwis. Chasing about 240; Aus were six for 80-odd and he got a 100, and won the game for Australia. In the 2003 World Cup, Australia were almost knocked out by England as they collapsed to 8/135 chasing 205 for victory, but Bevan held firm with 74 not out, and took his team home. Against Kiwis in the Super 6 stage of the same 2003 World Cup, Australia were struggling at 7/84 but Bevan rescued them, scoring 56 to rally the troops as Australia got to 9/208 and Australia ultimately won by 96 runs. In the other classic, the semi-final against SA in 2003, Bevan top scored with 65 and was last man out for Aus as they managed 213 after being 4/68 and 6/158. As we all know, the match was a tie, and Aus were through to the finals. He was someone who knew the situation very well. When required, he could bat at a run a ball or better, but he could also shore up one end when required. He seemed to know what was required and maximize the chances of victory. He was the go to guy, the one who would be defensive when bowlers were on top, and put his foot on the pedal exactly when it was required. He ended his career with a batting average of 53.58 — the highest for any retired player — in 232 ODIs that fetched 6,912 runs with 67 not outs - more than 1 in 3 - including six centuries and 46 fifties. What more one needs to achieve to become the greatest finisher? Dhoni has been phenomenal in the sub-continent, but his average in away conditions and against better oppositions is significantly lower. It indicates the difficulty to adjust his batting in foreign conditions and against better attacks. His strike rate is also not as explosive as in the sub-continent. Few of his performances in Aus: 1st Match: Australia v India at Brisbane, Feb 3, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 37 from 61 after India was reduced to 94-5. 4th Match: Australia v India at Melbourne, Feb 10, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 17 from 54 to win a low scoring game. 10th Match: Australia v India at Sydney, Feb 24, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 36 from 66 after being 4 down in a high scoring game. I guess, a better record against better teams in all conditions should decide the winner.

[midge]

Everyone has a different perspective and it depends on team dynamic' date=' I'd prefer 5 genuine top notch bowlers especially in an ATG team against the best. I've got tendulkar, gilchrist, viv, de villiers, hussey and dhoni ahead of the number 7 so for me the bowling takes precedence. If you wanted both could make the team, even someone like shakib for an another quality spin option could work, 2 all rounders one bats 6 the other bats 7.[/quote'] Nice thoughts!

[Ranjha]

Gilchrist Tendulkar Viv Richards Ponting DeVilliers Yuvraj Klusener Imran Khan Akram Warne McGrath

[midge]

Gilchrist Tendulkar Viv Richards Ponting DeVilliers Yuvraj Klusener Imran Khan Akram Warne McGrath

I would have a Holding/ Donald/ Waqar in place of Imran. Rest looks awesome. I just can't stop looking at that batting line-up; it's so jaw-dropping! :two_thumbs_up:

[BlueBee]

Gilchrist Tendulkar Viv Richards Ponting DeVilliers Yuvraj Klusener Imran Khan Akram Warne McGrath

Yuvraj ahead of Dhoni?

[MCGGG]

Faulkner comes in an ATG ODI XI makes me :hysterical:

True, the ATGs had to deal with the rigours of cricket over a decade or more, injuries and family issues etc etc, Faulkner is in his honeymoon period ATM, but he's as promising as they come IMO.

[MCGGG]

I can't be bothered listing my team again (as I'd have to look it up), but I had a few surprises, I had Hadlee in my team along with Flintoff and McGrath missed out for Akram.

[omidagr8]

Tendulkar Gilly Sanga Kallis ABD Dhoni Klusner Wasim Mcgrath Warne Starc

[nic007]

According to Wiki, Ponting's ODI average is only 42. There are/were better players in that format of the game

[MCGGG]

According to Wiki' date=' Ponting's ODI average is only 42. There are/were better players in that format of the game[/quote'] His big game average would be much higher than that, and he was one of the best fielders we've seen, average captain though IMO, he made some howlers at test level.

[nic007]

So he is a bit of a one hit wonder when it comes to certain ODI matches otherwise he is pretty under-par for a number three batsman (in comparison to other top players)?

[MCGGG]

So he is a bit of a one hit wonder when it comes to certain ODI matches otherwise he is pretty under-par for a number three batsman (in comparison to other top players)?

Not really, stats don't always tell the story mate, he struggled early doors in both formats of the game, but when he matured he was as good as anyone, at his peak his average would've been insane, he averaged near 60 for a long time at test level. He also has a test series win in India, and 3 WCs, his trophy case exceeds India as a country combined.