Finally people are talking about it : IT killing Bangalore

[Guest dada_rocks]

That was an example DR. I mentioned MECON specifically since it is largely a Consulting unit;albeit in a specific area. Not much different from ITs. But you are free to change the model to Railways, Banks and whatever else you can think of. Take Banks for example. Do they provide their workers with flats and apartments? Not always but a lot of times yes. In Patna you have the Bank colony right under that Bahadur bridge. In Bombay I can remember a few apartments like that in Thakur Complex, for private banks like HDFC and so on. My point being that you can find such examples. And yes it would be a good idea to think outside the box a little bit on this one. When TELCO can provide housing for its workforce why not TCS(TATA Consultancy Services)? xxxx

Now this model is practically emulatable and I am happy to inform you already work to this effect are happening.. My brother-in-law works in wipro, was talking to him other day compnay is arranging subsidized loan upto some extent for all-wipro employee apartment complex..Due to scarcity of land that's what one will have to settle for can't expect bungalows on independe plots in this day and age ..

[Lurker]

Look at your post #24: http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=278881&postcount=24 This is where you started the personal attacks, and you come back and tell me that I am the one talking nonsense here? Why would you start such personal attacks and indulge in name calling?

So thats 19 and counting. Still havent found anything on the subject eh? And no you are lying if you say I have started personal attack. Your very first post in this thread goes thus -

You are amazing DR. You talk and talk and talk and talk about a whole host of issues regarding rural problems and how rural people slog it out etc. But, yet you yourself are not living in an Indian village and doing anything about it? I dont think Lurker lives in one either...

I have not even mentioned of you remotely, it is but you that dragged me into this slangfest. Of course before your post came along this topic was being discussed just fine. Maybe not to your taste but yes it was being debated ON THE TOPIC. Your allegations about me starting personal attack is simply a lie. xxx

[Lurker]

Now this model is practically emulatable and I am happy to inform you already work to this effect are happening.. My brother-in-law works in wipro' date= was talking to him other day compnay is arranging subsidized loan upto some extent for all-wipro employee apartment complex..Due to scarcity of land that's what one will have to settle for can't expect bungalows on independe plots in this day and age ..

I am happy to hear that. The way I look at the whole IT boom is this. Indian IT industry has been around for almost 20 years now, 15 atleast. 10 of these years we have been world class,atleast our top tier 1 companies. Right now by any account our IT companies are amongst the best. So I dont buy this - Wait another 20 years - line of thought. What I would like Indian companies to do is to be ambitious as well as philanthropic. Plus think outside the box and start giving solutions for India. Ambitious in the sense that we win innovative and cutting edge projects and not merely those Production support kind. Philanthropic in the sense we realize we have an obligation to our country, its people and the fellow worker. Take for example the growing strength of Rupee. It has affected a lot of IT companies in India and it was hardly heartening to see IT headhonchos meet PM and ask Rupee to be devalued. It was also not very delightful to read how Indian companies have asked their workers to be prepared to come on Saturday to generate more revenue thanks to weaking dollar. I have read article where Dollar may fall to Rs 30, or even under. If that happens what are the IT companies gonna do? Make workers work 7 days a week? xxx

[fineleg]

So thats 19 and counting. Still havent found anything on the subject eh?

Well Lurker we need to first close down on this attacking each other business. Being in an angry mood and fighting with you is not the best of mood to be in to post on "topic"

And no you are lying if you say I have started personal attack. Your very first post in this thread goes thus -

I agree I was irritated to see the constant theme from you in many threads, of Indians not being dutiful, wealth and IT have caused more problems in India, anti-westernization of India...things like that. Maybe I should have just ignored that rhetoric, and moved on as I have done in the past. But I was irritated and tempted to post - It was my true opinion that living in comfort many folks can do all this moralistic talk which is all nice and dandy. If it was my irritation, which caused my post to drag your name, and if your name coming there was the reason you started going ballistic - then fine, I'll edit my first post to remove your name and any reference to you. We can end this here, and move on and discuss this topic/others as the flow progresses. Do you agree?

[Lurker]

I agree I was irritated to see the constant theme from you and DR of Indians not being dutiful, wealth and IT have only worsened India...things like that. Maybe I should have just ignored that rhetoric, and moved on as I have done in the past. But I was irritated and tempted to post - It was my true opinion that living in comfort many folks can do all this moralistic talk which is all nice and dandy.

The questions raised - high costs of living in Indian city is hardly rhetorics. This is a serious problem, getting progressively worse. Now as every coin has two sides there are a lot of good too. And maybe in the long run good outweighs the bad, yes I can see that and sure we can discuss it. But what beats me is when someone who obviously has a certain concern for India raises a point instead of discussing the point people start wondering where he/she lives? All things equal had I been in India and saying the same things would you have said, "Yes Lurker has a point. IT companies are perhaps doing damage to Bangalore". or would the striking Doctors have said "Patna chalo" and then went to Indian villages? Answer clearly is no and no. So how does my, or anyone else's residence matters? Still if you have any issues with residence vis a vis philosphy of anyone it is only fair to ask away your concern rather than go carte blanche on what YOU beleive is rhetoric. Incidentally in OUTLOOK today there is another article about NRIs by Ramchandra Guha. You may not like it but it may be another pointer that not everyone in India is not very happy with NRIs..read it when you can. xxx

[Ram]

Fellas, cool it please. Both of you have too much pedigree to keep persisting with this and both of you know that.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Moreover fineleg has those mast legs u know the thigh part which u adore so kiss and make-up..:two_thumbs_up:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Damn u gal on IT issue I was with you:giggle:

[Ram]

The thing is, both of 'em started having a go each other, even before they had even started debating. Obviously, there has been a miscommunication somewhere. Hope better sense prevails. :two_thumbs_up:

[fineleg]

The thing is, both of 'em started having a go each other, even before they had even started debating. Obviously, there has been a miscommunication somewhere. Hope better sense prevails. :two_thumbs_up:

MM, I haven't had any direct issues with Lurker. I agree there was some miscommunication, the speed at which things degraded and escalated to personal attacks was very quick - (not surprising given that it happens that way in online forums where we dont know each other well enough, and can be trigger happy depending on the mood). In hindsight, I could have left out taking names of people, and I feel Lurks need not have gone ballistic either. Mistake acknowledged, lets move on. I've continued the fight today, only coz there is enough and more ego to back off from a fight. But its not really needed. Peace.

[Ram]

MM, I haven't had any direct issues with Lurker. I agree there was some miscommunication, the speed at which things degraded and escalated to personal attacks was very quick - (not surprising given that it happens that way in online forums where we dont know each other well enough, and can be trigger happy depending on the mood). In hindsight, I could have left out taking names of people, and I feel Lurks need not have gone ballistic either. Mistake acknowledged, lets move on. I've continued the fight today, only coz there is enough and more ego to back off from a fight. But its not really needed. Peace.

Good to see a tone of reconciliation. Honestly guys, you all do day jobs, where there is a lot of stress/boredom. You come to an online forum to chill out and have fun. Do you really think its really worth all the trouble to have duels online too ? Relax and enssssssooooooooooi !!

[Mandrake]

Yes and No DR. By and large I can understand where you are coming from. But you have the examples of a good thought out strategy. Take the example of MECON, Ranchi(Mandrake should be able to shed more light on it). MECON was built with an idea of consulting in Iron and Steel Industries. Quite similar to IT though obviously different. I would say the number of people working at MECON, Ranchi would be about 5,000(if that) but it has a very decent township at Shyamli. Now of course MECON and Shyamali are more famous for Dhoni. Now lets take the example of Bangalore. Is it unfair to say that atleast 15,000 IT people work at Infosys Bangalore? If you include all the branches within Bangalore, add the usual workers(everyone from Accounting to janitors) the number should be around 20,000 if not more. Combine this with Wipro, TCS, Satyam., HP, Cognizant and the workforce number should go up to 50,000 within Bangalore. Add in small companies and the number of people working in IT one way or other should be about 60-75,000..maybe even more. How is that not a drastic situation? The former, MECON, is an example of a planned strategy. The latter, IT in Bangalore, is a boom..and exactly that. xxx

Interesting that you mention Mecon and Shyamali.For someone born and raised there,I agree that the quality of life in those days was just stupendous BUT we are talking of an era 20 year back. I havent been back there in a decade but from what I hear,the place is in dire straits. That model just doesnt work in the modern era. Look at the financial position of most of those old era PSU's. Its absolutely illogical to expect IT companies in a capitalist economy to create townships for their employees. The companies are there to do business not create a free for all society.This is where the Govt needs to step in and use the enormous tax money that the IT industry is generating to address infrastructure and other issues.

[fineleg]

Good to see a tone of reconciliation. Honestly guys, you all do day jobs, where there is a lot of stress/boredom. You come to an online forum to chill out and have fun. Do you really think its really worth all the trouble to have duels online too ? Relax and enssssssooooooooooi !!

There is a lot of stress in the day jobs - yes :D, though luckily its not boring (coz i enjoy it for the most part). But stress can get one in a cranky mood! I seriously dunno how this one degenerated so much, i guess i hit some nerve in lurker!

[Lurker]

Interesting that you mention Mecon and Shyamali.For someone born and raised there,I agree that the quality of life in those days was just stupendous BUT we are talking of an era 20 year back. I havent been back there in a decade but from what I hear,the place is in dire straits.

I wouldnt be surprised if it really needs some makeover. I mean it is an area that was built say 40 years ago, if not before, and hence like anything it may have well crossed its shelf-life. I mean the USP of MECON was to construct Heavy Engineering companies and help with other metallurgical operations. If there is not much work in the area then quite possibly MECON has outlived its utlity. No real surprises there if you ask me. Edit: And I must say it makes me also wonder as to why people who have lived and worked in MECON or TELCO or ONGC have so fine a memory of these places but I dont hear the same from a INFY, WIPRO, TCS guy? I myself have worked for TCS and it was a great experience and all but nowhere close to say TELCO.

That model just doesnt work in the modern era. Look at the financial position of most of those old era PSU's. Its absolutely illogical to expect IT companies in a capitalist economy to create townships for their employees.

Fair enough. We would personally have to disagree on that one. The way I see it is most companies ultimately end up investing back its profits back in the market, generally as dividents to Share holders. I wouldnt mind if say an Infy can use its profits to buy a large piece of land in interior Karnataka and create a world class facility there. As of now Karnataka is Bangalore(what other city of Karnataka does a Bihari know of)? I would personally like to see Indian companies start to think outside of the box and not remain within the system. xxx

[Ram]

There is a lot of stress in the day jobs - yes :D, though luckily its not boring (coz i enjoy it for the most part). But stress can get one in a cranky mood! I seriously dunno how this one degenerated so much, i guess i hit some nerve in lurker!

I know both of you are embarrassed now. :D Now, for God's sake, do your day jobs well ! After all, you are getting paid for it. :haha:

[fineleg]

The questions raised - high costs of living in Indian city is hardly rhetorics. This is a serious problem, getting progressively worse. Now as every coin has two sides there are a lot of good too. And maybe in the long run good outweighs the bad, yes I can see that and sure we can discuss it. But what beats me is when someone who obviously has a certain concern for India raises a point instead of discussing the point people start wondering where he/she lives? All things equal had I been in India and saying the same things would you have said, "Yes Lurker has a point. IT companies are perhaps doing damage to Bangalore". or would the striking Doctors have said "Patna chalo" and then went to Indian villages? Answer clearly is no and no. So how does my, or anyone else's residence matters? Still if you have any issues with residence vis a vis philosphy of anyone it is only fair to ask away your concern rather than go carte blanche on what YOU beleive is rhetoric. Incidentally in OUTLOOK today there is another article about NRIs by Ramchandra Guha. You may not like it but it may be another pointer that not everyone in India is not very happy with NRIs..read it when you can. xxx

i'll come back to this. Why the residence issue was raised.

[Mandrake]

The way I see it is most companies ultimately end up investing back its profits back in the market, generally as dividents to Share holders. I wouldnt mind if say an Infy can use its profits to buy a large piece of land in interior Karnataka and create a world class facility there. As of now Karnataka is Bangalore(what other city of Karnataka does a Bihari know of)? I would personally like to see Indian companies start to think outside of the box and not remain within the system. xxx

[fineleg]

Lurker, The reason residence came into question was because you seem to urge people to consider moving to villages in India, living there or working there, and contributing services there. How rural India gives clean atmosphere, not having cars and riding bikes is healthy, saves pollution, and numerous other things... All that talk can sound hypocritical if it is delivered from the comforts of living abroad. After all, we are not the ones doing it, we are asking and encouraging others! Mind you, we are not talking abt just sending dollars and pounds and dinars to India, but actually living and doing work in rural India.

[Aditi]

The way I see it is most companies ultimately end up investing back its profits back in the market, generally as dividents to Share holders. I wouldnt mind if say an Infy can use its profits to buy a large piece of land in interior Karnataka and create a world class facility there. As of now Karnataka is Bangalore(what other city of Karnataka does a Bihari know of)? I would personally like to see Indian companies start to think outside of the box and not remain within the system. xxx Actually to some extent that is happening. Infy has a spectacular campus(training and management) in Mysore. Companies are more than willing to invest in smaller towns to counter the wage pressure and high attrition levels in the metros.The state govts need to ensure they have proper infrastructure established in these small cities to attract companies and potential employees there. From what I hear several smaller cities like Mysore,Mangalore,Nagpur and many more are fast becoming business destinations.

Check out what my company is doing in India, a very novel and interesting idea. Catch it on NPR's Morning Edition if you can: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17103636

[Sachinism]

cant get rid of IT else everyone goes to US, India gets left behind