Practically Magic - 50 greatest test performances from the last 50 years (+ AT11 and Stats)

[zen]

You yourself have compared India of the '70s and early '80s with SL of the '80s and early '90s and Zimbabwe of the "90s and "00s.  You can't be more wrong. We won 47 % of the test series that were decided, in the "70s for 10 years . It was not a " few successes.

Secondly...we were talking about touring India and Pakistan ...and both were very strong test sides at home and feared because of their spinners and pitches.

When you win a World Cup..that team gets a lot of pedigree and reverence. In those days , it was even more so. 

I know... because i actually watched test series post the World Cup victory in 1983 , on TV.  All the commentators and cricket experts had an extra reverence even for the test side.

Below is what I wrote:

"1. 70s-early 80s, WI and Aus were the top sides 

2. Many of the bowlers you are talking about played in 70s-90s when Ind was not considered as a top test side. Ind lost a few home test series in the 80s"

---> So you are only discussing a longer period relatively 

"3. SL was a minnow in tests 

4. So your example would be like how xyz would have been rated if he had not toured say SL of 80s and early 90s, Zim of 90s/00s, SL and WI of today"

---> I am comparing the general scenario in Asia at that time .... and, the focus in on tests (not ODIs) .

So your points do not appear to correspond to what I wrote/implied. Enlighten me more so I can respond accordingly 

 

True. This is what happens when you type fast.      

I don't mind leaving out Ponting from the World 11.  He has a good average of 48 in SL though and averages 119 in the only test he has played in Pakistan.

I want to select players who have actually succeeded all over the world....and also in conditions difficult for them. Not missed playing there or played below average there. I want all condition players to represent the best team.

 

 

So you would need to replace Sehwag, Ponting and Holding in your 11 for one reason or the other as per your parameters 

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by rett

[zen]

 

@rett

This thread has actually given me an opportunity to research many past great players and past performances. This has brought out many interesting facts and many great memories.

I have heard cricket commentary from 1983 and watched cricket from late 1983....very keenly i must say. I have watched many West Indian great fast bowlers bowl live...seen Richards, Lloyd,  Marshall, Holding and an old Roberts on the cricket field.  The aura that WI team had ...no other team has achieved in cricket ever after till date.  

This debate will never end...I want players in my team who have actually played and succeeded in various conditions ( not should have or would have )...I will stick to my view. You want players who have impressed you , irrespective of the countries they have actually played in...and you will stick to your view.

To each his own..... we are not actual selectors selecting an actual team   ....  and that is that. 

I agree with you on most parts apart from your methodology to evaluate mental toughness, and some of the other points discussed, etc,  .... and liked many of your comments esp. on fast bowling 

I have not watched some of the great WI fast bowlers live so would love to read more about them 

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by rett

[express bowling]

 

Below is what I wrote:

"1. 70s-early 80s, WI and Aus were the top sides 

2. Many of the bowlers you are talking about played in 70s-90s when Ind was not considered as a top test side. Ind lost a few home test series in the 80s"

So you are only discussing a longer period relatively 

"3. SL was a minnow in tests 

4. So your example would be like how xyz would have been rated if he had not toured say SL of 80s and early 90s, Zim of 90s/00s, SL and WI of today"

I am comparing the general scenario in Asia at that time .... and, the focus in on tests (not ODIs) .... so your points do not appear to correspond to what I wrote/implied. Enlighten me more so I can respond accordingly 

 

 

So you would need to replace Sehwag, Ponting and Holding for one reason or the others as per your parameters 

 

I do not need to replace Sehwag because it was always either / or ...that is Sehwag in the sub-continent and maybe WI  and Hayden elsewhere.   To replace Ponting, I would need more research...off the cuff impressions are often wrong.

As I said in the above post...I can respond .....but the debate is not going anywhere, we are going around in circles........I will stick to my views of choosing players who have actually succeeded all over the world...and you stick to your views of  choosing players who have impressed you, ...And that is that.     

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by express bowling

[zen]

I do not need to replace Sehwag because it was always either / or ...that is Sehwag in the sub-continent and maybe WI  and Hayden elsewhere.   To replace Ponting, I would need more research...off the cuff impressions are often wrong.

With either/or, you have selected more than 11 players  .... Looking at your 11, I would say you could bring in someone like Lara who can bat at 3 or swap positions with Richards .... Graeme Pollock is a good option too. Though he played only 20 odd tests, he impressed a lot of people 

PS Since you have Tendulkar in the 11 and because he was so reluctant to bat anywhere except at #4, may be you could make Tendulkar open at least on paper opening up new avenues for him 

Edited February 2, 2016 by rett

[express bowling]

With either/or, you have selected more than 11 players  .... Looking at your 11, I would say you could bring in someone Lara who can bat at 3 or swap positions with Richards 

No harm in that...it is impossible to leave out Sehwag in sub-continent.tests.    

Lara could be an option but I am not 100% about him. He was a superman after he crossed 100 but was often very unsure during his first 20 runs or so. Not the ideal batsman at no.3 if a quick wicket falls. I want Richards at no.5 because he could absolutely destroy bowlers ...and that quality is needed in the middle order.

Edited February 2, 2016 by express bowling