Practically Magic - 50 greatest test performances from the last 50 years (+ AT11 and Stats)

[zen]

Link

"The top Test performances from the last 50 years include scarcely believable turnarounds, a dustbin aid, and big whiskers"

 

I am not too worried about the exact positions in the ranking. As long as it serves to recap or enlighten us on some of the greatest test performances in test cricket over the last 50 years, it is great! 

 

PS below is my test 11 from players who played in the last 50 years:

* Gavaskar - Best opener of AT

* Sehwag - Best opener with Avg and SR combination and a dossier full of double and triple 100s

* Richards - An explosive test batsman with a test avg of 58 b/w 1976-1985. Can bat anywhere in the top 6. Averages 62 at #3

* Lara - One of those batsmen who can win you a test with his bat. Tons of big scores and records. Can bat anywhere from 3 to 5

* Sobers (Captain) - Known as the greatest cricketer of AT. Destructive with the bat to win a test with it and innovative with the ball. Has a phenomenal test career batting avg of 58. Can bat anywhere from 3 to 6

* Gilchrist - A genuine wkt-all-rounder 

* Marshall - The name says it all. Often regarded by other fast bowlers as the complete bowler

* Warne - One of the two AT best spinner

* Ambrose - A bowler who can win tests from tough situations  

* Murali - One of the two AT best spinners 

* McGrath - A bowler who believes in discipline 

 

Please feel free to use this thread to list your Test 11 from players who played in the last 50 years 

Edited January 31, 2016 by rett

[vvvslaxman]

Lara's 400 at 13? Many many innings are better than that. 

[vvvslaxman]

List is a joke lol.. If they include Gavaskar's 96 , Lara's 400,375  they should include 117 not out, 136 by Sachin.  Also vengsarkar's 102/61 at leeds is  not in top 20. Is it me or Dravid's 180 is completely ignored by many. But for him there would have never been a 281. 

[zen]

List is a joke lol.. If they include Gavaskar's 96 , Lara's 400,375  they should include 117 not out, 136 by Sachin.  Also vengsarkar's 102/61 at leeds is  not in top 20. Is it me or Dravid's 180 is completely ignored by many. But for him there would have never been a 281. 

This list has to include players from all countries. For e.g. like you, I am sure a Pak fan will feel why one of the top Pak players is not on the list. In the comments section, I even saw a few fans listing ODI performances ignoring that the list is about tests 

 

"POSTED BY ZRZAIDI64 ON | JANUARY 5, 2016, 19:27 GMT

Saeed Anwar's 194, Waqar's 7/36 @ Leeds, Aqib Javed's 7/37 @ Sharjah, Afridi's 7/12 vs. the Windies, Akram's 257 vs Zimbabwe, Akram's 5/19 vs. Windies, Akram's 5/15 vs. Zimbabwe, Akram's 6/67 vs. England, Akram's 6/43 vs. New Zealand. None of these made. I think we might be missing the chapters of Pakistani cricket from the Cricket encyclopedia."

 

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by rett

[vvvslaxman]

I know .But Jayasuriyas 340 lol seriously.

[vvvslaxman]

Windies has 14 , India 11.. some of the Indians i would have had someone else. Guys like Steyn even in this batsman friendly era has blown teams away with impressive strike rates.

[zen]

The list is dominated by:

1. Lara - 4 times

2. Richards and Botham - 3 times

3. Sobers, Ambrose, Waugh, Gavaskar and Warne - 2 times 

 

[maniac]

This list has to include players from all countries. For e.g. like you, I am sure a Pak fan will feel why one of the top Pak players is not on the list. In the comments section, I even saw a few fans listing ODI performances ignoring that the list is about tests 

 

"POSTED BY ZRZAIDI64 ON | JANUARY 5, 2016, 19:27 GMT

Saeed Anwar's 194, Waqar's 7/36 @ Leeds, Aqib Javed's 7/37 @ Sharjah, Afridi's 7/12 vs. the Windies, Akram's 257 vs Zimbabwe, Akram's 5/19 vs. Windies, Akram's 5/15 vs. Zimbabwe, Akram's 6/67 vs. England, Akram's 6/43 vs. New Zealand. None of these made. I think we might be missing the chapters of Pakistani cricket from the Cricket encyclopedia."

 

 

actually one of the best innings by a pak batsman I have seen is beleive it or not by Azhar Mahmood vs southafrica where 

Edited January 30, 2016 by maniac

[Deleted_User_1]

no SRT, the greatest batsman of the modern generation!!!

[zen]

actually one of the best innings by a pak batsman I have seen is beleive it or not by Azhar Mahmood vs southafrica where 

True. In fact Azhar was a consistent performer vs SA  (even our Azhar has some exceptional inngs vs. SA so may it has something to do with the name) .... But not sure if those performances can be counted amongst top 50 when considering both bowling and batting 

[express bowling]

My test 11 would be

 

Gavaskar

Sehwag /  Hayden  ( depending on where it is being played, Sehwag in the subcontinent definitely  )

Ponting

Tendulkar

Richards

Sobers   ( I have changed Imran after seeing his high bowling average in India )

Gilchrist

Warne

Marshall

Steyn

Holding /  Muralidharan   ( depending on the conditions )

 

Would have liked to take McGrath, Akram and  Garner  but don't know where.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by express bowling

[zen]

Imran (at 6)

 In an AT 11 where one has the luxury of picking the best 11, I find selecting one of the 4 great all-rounders a challenge. If you have Gilchrist (or Sanga though he averages around 40,  which is less than Gilly's, when playing as WK), you already have 6 world class batsmen in the 11 which should be enough considering the AT bowling one would also have making the scores of 300-350 highly competitive even on batting friendly surfaces

If we look at the 4 great all-rounders, usually Botham and Kapil contributed with both the bat and the ball equally at the same time. However, relatively speaking their bowling stats are not as good as Hadlee and Imran's, who were more like bowlers who could bat too esp. when they started out. Later Imran improved as a batsman when he was not at his peak as a bowler. So these all-rounders were not necessarily at their peak with the bat and the ball at the same time.  Playing Kallis as an all-rounder too would be similar to playing Hadlee and Imran as all-rounders in tests. 

Therefore, in an AT 11, I find it easier to pick Sobers, Kallis, Hadlee and Imran more for their primary skills than as genuine all-rounders. For e.g., I would be tempted to pick Imran or Hadlee as one of the pace bowlers vs. another pace bowler like McGrath (or Ambrose) because Imran can bat too vs. because Imran is an all-rounder .... However, the dilemma -  if I already have 5 AT world class batsmen + Gilchrist in the 11, do I really need Imran (or Hadlee)'s better batting capabilities vs. McGrath (or Ambrose) or am I better selecting one who could complement other bowlers nicely in the 11 

 

Would have liked to take Akram and  Garner  but don't know where.

Akram as a left-arm fast bowling option is tempting. However on some of the analysis that I have read, Akram in tests is usually not in the top 5 or 7 bowlers .... Usually Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath come in the top 5-7 among the post 70s bowlers .... Garner has a strong case has he has one of the best bowling averages and strike rates 

Edited January 31, 2016 by rett

[zen]

Some stats from 1965 on wards 

Bowling

Opening Batting

Batting at 3

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by rett

[express bowling]

 In an AT 11 where one has the luxury of picking the best 11, I find selecting one of the 4 great all-rounders a challenge. If you have Gilchrist (or Sanga though he averages around 40,  which is less than Gilly, when playing as WK), you already have 6 world class batsmen in the 11 which should be enough considering the AT bowling one would also have making even the scores of 300-350 highly competitive

If we look at the 4 great all-rounders, usually Botham and Kapil contributed with both the bat and the ball equally at the same time. However, relatively speaking their bowling stats are not as good as Hadlee and Imran's, who were more like bowlers who could bat too esp. when they started out. Later Imran improved as a batsman when he was not at his peak as a bowler. So these all-rounders were not necessarily at their peak with the bat and the ball at the same time.  Playing Kallis as an all-rounder too would be similar to playing Hadlee and Imran as all-rounders in tests. 

Therefore, in an AT 11, I find it easier to pick Sobers, Kallis, Hadlee and Imran more for their primary skills than as genuine all-rounders. For e.g., I would be tempted to pick Imran or Hadlee as one of the pace bowlers vs. another pace bowler like McGrath (or Ambrose) because Imran can bat too vs. because Imran is an all-rounder .... The dilemma -  if I already have 5 AT world class batsmen + Gilchrist in the 11, do I really need Imran (or Hadlee)'s better batting capabilities vs. McGrath (or Ambrose) or am I better selecting one who could complement other bowlers nicely in the 11 

 

Akram as a left-arm fast bowling option is tempting. However on some of the analysis that I have read, Akram in tests is usually not in the top 5 or 7 bowlers .... Usually Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath come in the top 5-7 among the post 70s bowlers .... Garner has a strong case has he is one of the best bowling averages and strike rates 

One of the reasons why I did not pick Sobers is because i have never seen him play. 

I have picked Imran because he is the only all-rounder who was a low average proper bowler and became a proper batsman too, albeit at the later part of his career. Also, he was a big match player and knew how to get the job done.

The reason I picked Steyn over Garner is because he is a swing bowler whereas Garner was a bouncy seam bowler. We already have that in McGrath and even Holding  in my team. It is important to have variety in the attack to take care of different conditions like swing friendly conditions, seaming pitches, dead tracks which require high pace in the air etc.

It is important to have different types of players in the team to take care of various conditions. We cannot always pick batsmen with the highest averages and bowlers with the lowest.

[zen]

One of the reasons why I did not pick Sobers is because i have never seen him play. 

I have picked Imran because he is the only all-rounder who was a low average proper bowler and became a proper batsman too, albeit at the later part of his career. Also, he was a big match player and knew how to get the job done.

The reason I picked Steyn over Garner is because he is a swing bowler whereas Garner was a bouncy seam bowler. We already have that in McGrath and even Holding  in my team. It is important to have variety in the attack to take care of different conditions like swing friendly conditions, seaming pitches, dead tracks which require high pace in the air etc.

It is important to have different types of players in the team to take care of various conditions. We cannot always pick batsmen with the highest averages and bowlers with the lowest.

May be you could swap Gilly and Imran's batting position. Gilly at his best is a better batsman than Imran at his best. Gilly also has some amazing big 100s against teams such as SA 

I agree that variety is important in bowling. Which is why I have Marshall who is regarded as a complete bowler by many fast bowlers. He had pace, could bounce, swing, and someone even said that he could bowl leg spin if he wanted to  .... And there is Sobers who can also bowl anything and is also an left-arm option .... Both Ambrose and McGrath are good with new and old balls, and bowl in areas that test the batsmen .... And if for some reason Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath don't get you, Warne and Murali will. With such 5 great bowlers, who also have great stats, almost all conditions including playing and ball's have been accounted for 

Personally, I rate Sobers as #2 batsman after Bradman. And he can bowl too if required so his selection was easy for me 

The key dilemmas for me were:

• Hadlee vs. McGrath - But I have Marshall who can do pretty much everything what Hadlee can and also bowl pace. And Sobers can swing the ball too 
• Extra batsman vs. 2nd spinner - Since I am looking to bowl the opposition out for 300 or less, I went with the extra spinner. The batting is good enough to get 350+ in most conditions and against most attacks  

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by rett

[express bowling]

 

Some stats from 1965 on wards 

Bowling

Opening Batting

Batting at 3

 

If we see...many of the top pacers have not played much in the sub-continent or don't have good records here.

I was surprised to see that Lillee, Garner and Ambrose have never played a test in India and McGrath has high averages in Pakistan and SL. Donald has played very few tests in Asia too.

Holding, Steyn and Imran have low averages in the sub-continent also as does Marshall.

I will post more on this when I have time to check them.

Just like we tend to criticize sub-continent batsmen for not doing well outside Asia...the same rule should apply to fast bowlers, especially from outside Asia...they should do well here to get pedigree.

[zen]

 

If we see...many of the top pacers have not played much in the sub-continent or don't have good records here.

I was surprised to see that Lillee, Garner and Ambrose have never played a test in India and McGrath has high averages in Pakistan and SL. Donald has played very few tests in Asia too.

Holding, Steyn and Imran have low averages in the sub-continent also as does Marshall.

I will post more on this when I have time to check them.

Just like we tend to criticize sub-continent batsmen for not doing well outside Asia...the same rule should apply to fast bowlers, especially from outside Asia...they should do well here to get pedigree.

First among equals

^ This is a good comparative analysis by Cricinfo 

 

Imran's numbers could have be influenced by favorable umpiring and bottle-caps factors .... In the sub-continent, there are various factors that impact a bowlers performance including the team he is playing against so not all records are apples to apples in the sub-con. For e.g. In 2010, Steyn got to play on a green pitch at Nagpur against a relatively weak Indian batting line up so he performed phenomenally in that test. However, in the next test at Calcutta, he was ok. There was a similar case at A'bad in 2008 too, iirc, and Ind went in with 3 pace bowlers on that pitch too. Most of Steyn's wkts in Ind are from these two tests

Also the comparison b/w batsmen and bowlers performing in all conditions is not apples to apples as a) a batsmen when he is set is expected to score a big 100 and bat for as long as possible. On the other hand, a bowler bowls in limited spells and is a part of the overall attack, b) the condition the ball and the pitch over the course of a test keep changing 

 

PS Below is an interesting analysis that one of the posters on a forum had conducted. I remember it reading sometime back: 

 

 Price paid for the value

A bowler however cannot be critiqued for only having a low average value of wicket. Some bowlers may play more games against weeker oppositions. Some may come on to bowl only as first or second change and may get less chance to bowl to top order batsmen.

However if a bolwer does bowl more to weeker batsmen and dismisses them more often, he must also take those wickets more cheaply i.e. must pay lesser price for taking those wickets. This price is the bowling average of the bowler.

Consider the bowler X in the previous example averaged 30 for each wickets (i.e. gave away 150 runs for his 5 wickets). He has effectively paid a price of 30 while getting rid of batsmen that valued 40.6. Another way to look at it is that bolwer X discounted the batting average of the batsmen he bowled to down to 30/40.6 = 73.8%. Lower the "disconut factor" more effective the bowler. A discount rate of 80% would mean that a batsman who averages 50 overall will average 40 against that bowler in duels. 

Note that it is immaterial if that "price" paid were runs scored by batsmen the bowler X ultimately dismissed or by others. That's how many runs he gave away in search of those wickets.

With bowling averages and average value of each wicket available with us, we can calculate discount factors for each of the 41 bowlers. Doing this, we get the following ranking on the basis of discount factors:

 

Rank	Bowler		Bow Ave	 Avg value Discount Factor
1	Sydney Barnes	16.43	 25.02 	65.7%
2	George Lohman	10.75	 15.92 	67.5%
3	Alan Davidson	20.53	 30.04 	68.3%
4	M Marshall	20.94	 30.48 	68.7%
5	Curtly Ambrose	20.99	 30.23 	69.4%
6	Glenn McGrath	21.64	 31.02 	69.8%
7	Jim Laker	21.24	 29.83 	71.2%
8	W O'Reilly	22.59	 31.56 	71.6%
9	Keith Miller	22.97	 31.17 	73.7%
10	Fred Trueman	21.57	 28.90 	74.6%
11	Allan Donald	22.25	 29.71 	74.9%
12	Richard Hadlee	22.29	 29.54 	75.4%
13	Imran Khan	22.81	 29.91 	76.3%
14	Dennis Lillee	23.92	 31.27 	76.5%
15	Shaun Pollock	23.11	 30.16 	76.6%
16	Joel Garner	20.97	 27.15 	77.2%
17	Ray Lindwall	23.03	 29.59 	77.8%
18	Hedley Verity	24.37	 31.23 	78.0%
19	Michael Holding	23.68	 30.14 	78.6%
20	Dale Steyn	23.13	 29.29 	79.0%
21	M Muralitharan	22.72	 28.51 	79.7%
22	Courtney Walsh	24.44	 29.74 	82.2%
23	C Grimmett	24.21	 28.99 	83.5%
24	Bob Willis	25.20	 29.95 	84.2%
25	Waqar Younis	23.56	 27.65 	85.2%
26	Shane Warne	25.41	 29.32 	86.7%
27	Jason Gillespie	26.13	 29.97 	87.2%
28	Andy Roberts	25.61	 29.01 	88.3%
29	Wasim Akram	23.62	 26.50 	89.1%
30	Mkhaya Ntini	28.82	 31.47 	91.6%
31	Fred Spofforth	18.41	 20.01 	92.0%
32	Lance Gibbs	29.09	 30.44 	95.6%
33	Chaminda Vaas	29.58	 30.74 	96.2%
34	Ian Botham	28.40	 29.30 	96.9%
35	Anil Kumble	29.65	 30.25 	98.0%
36	Brett Lee	30.81	 31.24 	98.6%
37	Kapil Dev	29.64	 29.80 	99.5%
38	Jacques Kallis	31.59	 31.25	101.1%
39	Harbhajan Singh	31.66	 30.47 	103.9%
40	Gary Sobers	34.03	 30.93 	110.0%
41	Daniel Vettori	33.86	 29.44 	115.0%

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by rett

[express bowling]

Imran Khan averages 28.03 in India compared to his overall average of 22.81.    Much higher and that is a negative, especially because he was a master of reverse swing. His low average in Pakistan had a lot to do with Pakistani umpires.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/40560.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

Akram averages 27.70 in India compared to 23.62 overall average

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43547.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

Waqar averages 76.5 in India ( albeit in just 2 tests )  compared to 23.56 overall.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43543.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Garner has never played a test in India and just 3 tests in Asia  out of his 58 tests overall

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/51876.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

Ambrose has never played a test in India and just 6 in Asia compared to his 98 overall

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/51107.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

Lillee has not played a single test in India and just 4 in Asia compared to 70 tests overall.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/6295.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

Jeff Thomson has not played any test in India and only 3 out of his 51 tests in Asia whre he averages 98

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7946.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

That is poor.

 

How is this point nor raised more often whereas cricket experts are so quick to quote Sehwag's average in SA  ?

Edited January 31, 2016 by express bowling

[zen]

 

How is this point nor raised more often whereas cricket experts are so quick to quote Sehwag's average in SA  ?

Please refer to my last post which has some interesting stats and analysis. As for the question above, I wrote the following in that post:

"Also the comparison b/w batsmen and bowlers performing in all conditions is not apples to apples as a) a batsmen when he is set is expected to score a big 100 and bat for as long as possible. On the other hand, a bowler bowls in limited spells and is a part of the overall attack, b) the condition the ball and the pitch over the course of a test keep changing"