FAO : Tendulkar rubbishers

[Lurker]

Fair enough. but there are many players out there who fluked one match performances. Who did perform well in World cupo and dind nothing else. As I said, one match chasing 360, so its only one where he failed. There can be hundreds of reasons why any player may fail in a sample of one match So basing one or two innigns to judge the entire 21 year career of a player is just rubbish

Nobody says that. The argument is rather simple - In toughest games it is expected for an all time great to stand up and be counted. Now you can suggest 2 games is not enough, and to me that is rather ridiculous, because 2 opportunities in essence 8 years of top cricket. If you are expecting a 4-5 outing in WC finals to prove your importance then frankly you have a big question mark over your temperament. And pray do tell how many great players, aside from Aussies and Windies, ever received 2 chances in finals?? Kapil, Imran, Miandad, Akram, Arvinda, Murali, Border, Chappell, Botham....they all had 1 chance at the highest level. Some made it count, others didnt. Sachin belongs to latter category. Like I said earlier, no harm done, but lets not make an argument out of nothing here. xxx

[Lurker]

Is this why you have run away from a whole bunch of threads after your ass got owned ?

Matlab you want me to waste your time like you do. Sorry Badi Bi apni ek life hai, thora waqt ke baad tumse dil bhar jaata hai jaaneman.

the pic that you FAP at because it has a female ? :hysterical: Once a Bihari always a Bihari and all that :cantstop:

lol..dude seriously, thats your best shot. Damn! By the way just so you know that sarkaar was Congressi, same as the one who your bhagwaan went to prostrate at these days. :haha:

Because of your unique ability to pretend and lie that your Hawaldar performed in the match where he was not even the 2nd choice candidate for a Man of the Match award ?

Lets see that. 1983 WC finals win - Kapil Dev is considered as the architect who won the game. 2003/2011 finals - Sachin is considered big player who failed on both ocassions leaving his chelas to yap about how there should have been a trial ball ahead of his dismissal. Sorry I will stick with Kapil. But keep coming Badi bi, tumhara gyaan badhane mein takleef nahin hai..bas jyaada bore mat karna please.

[Lurker]

babua - maana tumhein maze aa rahey hain- lekin haqikat mein' date= mirchi ka thaila tumharey chhedwa mein visarjit kiya gaya hai, kyunki beech bazar mein g& phaila ke tum baithey ho - with your retarded post. And you are always free to forge, distribute, and collect trophies in your dream world.

lol..Arre yaar tum itna sexually frustrated kyun ho? Seems like it takes you 2 posts to get in sexual realm. Not gonna ask you whats the matter there, lekin thora humor and imagination badhao. Your post get so retarded so fast ke majaa bhi nahin aata reply mein Jamna Bai. Learn from Badi bi. Sheekho apne fellow mujra waali se.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

ab to yeh politics mein aa gaye hain. Now we will see motions in losing cause?

[Jimmy Cliff]

1983 WC finals win - Kapil Dev is considered as the architect who won the game.

Nah, that wasn't the final. That was the league game against Zimbabwe! In the final, he flopped with the bat and got one tailender out when the game was already in the bag. Good catch to get rid of Richards though....

[velu]

we can better bump this thread after IPL anyway sachinstas are back to their age old method of bashing other legends to make sachins image/record more awesome :--D

[The Outsider]

MTC, I've asked this question before but you did not reply so am asking it again. If a sample size of 2 in World Cup finals is too small to be included in any analysis, is a sample size of 3 in World Cup semi finals good enough?

[The Outsider]

Nah' date=' that wasn't the final. That was the league game against Zimbabwe! In the final, he flopped with the bat and got one tailender out when the game was already in the bag. Good catch to get rid of Richards though....[/quote'] An economy rate better than Roberts, Marshall, Holding, and Garner besides taking the catch of the century, and scoring some useful runs in a low scoring match not good enough?

[Jimmy Cliff]

An economy rate better than Roberts' date=' Marshall, Holding, and Garner besides taking the catch of the century, and scoring some useful runs in a low scoring match not good enough?[/quote'] Well, scoring 4 runs more than Balwinder Sandhu (while taking one wicket less!) is not what I would call the performance of the "architect who won the game". Look, he made a decent enough contribution (especially that game-turning catch) but here he's being lumped with guys like Ponting, De Silva and Gilchrist which is a joke really.

[Lurker]

Well' date=' scoring 4 runs more than Balwinder Sandhu (while taking one wicket less!) is not what I would call the performance of the "architect who won the game". Look, he made a decent enough contribution (especially that game-turning catch) but here he's being lumped with guys like Ponting, De Silva and Gilchrist which is a joke really.[/quote'] I see where you are coming from, but arent you looking at it in isolation? I mean look at 1983 WC performance, in league games or knockouts, and tell me if you do not find the stamp of Kapil Dev all over it. I am not personally a huge fan of throwing in skippership to show a players worth but every account - from Gavaskar to Binny to Raj Singh Dungapur and ManSingh - would tell you how it was Kapil who egged his team throughout the tournament. In finals after dismissed for the paltry score he was the one who rallied his team to fight. Do you seriously think any other Indian player in the 83 team would have managed a different result than Kapil in 1983? If yes, then who. And if not, then who else should be credited with the win? Not sure why this is even a question when the entire cricketing world gives credit to Kapil really.

[Crookbond]

Lurks, Shouldn't Tendulkar also be credited for the 2011 WC win in the same vein.

[velu]

Well' date=' scoring 4 runs more than Balwinder Sandhu (while taking one wicket less!) is not what I would call the performance of the "architect who won the game". Look, he made a decent enough contribution (especially that game-turning catch) but here he's being lumped with guys like Ponting, De Silva and Gilchrist which is a joke really.[/quote'] :facepalm: but kapil is no where near a failure in the finals unlike sachin

[Lurker]

Lurks' date=' Shouldn't Tendulkar also be credited for the 2011 WC win in the same vein.[/quote'] Not in the same vein, no. But should he get credit for 2011 WC as part of the team. Yes. Look, the issue is rather simple here. You expect top players to raise their game in WC finals. Now we can go meandering on pedantic to say who has been the top performer in WC, was it Viv Richards, or Gilchrist, or David Boon or Arvinda De Silva. Whatever be the list you wont put these players as a failure. With Kapil you will have the same thing. Bowled great, fielded great, contributed modestly in a low scoring encounter. And led from the front. Was he individually as stellar as Richards? Perhaps no. Was he a failure? Heck no. Was Sachin a collosal failure in WC finals. Heck yeah. Does that clarify?

[Lurker]

Exactly. There are intangibles in the game that do not show up in the stat column. Kapil's WC finals performance is one such. Apart from the catch and bowling' date=' his valuable runs along with his inpirational captiancy, leading by example defending a v[b']ery modest total in a line up that included Viv, Gordon, Haynes and Lloyd takes some effort and Kapil taking charge of the troops that summer day, at Lord's made instant history perhaps the most unexpected of victories on such a big stage in this history of the game. He is the best ever cricketer India has produced.

:two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up: It should be mentioned that aside from Kapil, and possibly Amarnath, the other players were hardly of the mindset that India would beat West Indies. Gavaskar, great as he was, was always a defensive player. It was Kapil who worked against the tide and instilled that winning beleif. The scenario in 2003/11 was wayyy different. We were one of the top teams and had as good a chance as any. Granted Aussies were top dogs in 2003 but the difference between Australia and India in 2003 was hardly as wide as india west indies in 1983

[Crookbond]

Not in the same vein, no. But should he get credit for 2011 WC as part of the team. Yes. Look, the issue is rather simple here. You expect top players to raise their game in WC finals. Now we can go meandering on pedantic to say who has been the top performer in WC, was it Viv Richards, or Gilchrist, or David Boon or Arvinda De Silva. Whatever be the list you wont put these players as a failure. With Kapil you will have the same thing. Bowled great, fielded great, contributed modestly in a low scoring encounter. And led from the front. Was he individually as stellar as Richards? Perhaps no. Was he a failure? Heck no. Was Sachin a collosal failure in WC finals. Heck yeah. Does that clarify?

Yup, the highlighted cleared it for me.

[Sehwag1830]

Lol at Sachin fans . Sachin never touched 900 ICC rating points as a batsman in ODI. Kapil Dev is the only ODI all rounder in history of cricket to touch 600 ICC rating points as all rounder See from 1983 to 1994 , no.1 ODI rankings http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=1850&graph=ranking

[Lurker]

Lol at Sachin fans . Sachin never touched 900 ICC rating points as a batsman in ODI. Kapil Dev is the only ODI all rounder in history of cricket to touch 600 ICC rating points as all rounder See from 1983 to 1994 , no.1 ODI rankings http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=1850&graph=ranking

Those who have been lucky enough to watch the 4 great all-rounders in full flight would readily admit Kapil was the best all-rounder in Limited Internationals. In some ways it was his style of the game, hard hitting batting, good tight bowling and great fielding. In all the great Indian success of 80s he had the central role. Be it 1983 WC, 1985 benson hedges series 85 Asian cup, Rothmans trophy etc. Quite unlike Sachin's performance in 3 team tournaments where apart from India the other 2 teams were darji XI and mochi XI.

[Sehwag1830]

Those who have been lucky enough to watch the 4 great all-rounders in full flight would readily admit Kapil was the best all-rounder in Limited Internationals. In some ways it was his style of the game, hard hitting batting, good tight bowling and great fielding. In all the great Indian success of 80s he had the central role. Be it 1983 WC, 1985 benson hedges series 85 Asian cup, Rothmans trophy etc. Quite unlike Sachin's performance in 3 team tournaments where apart from India the other 2 teams were Darji XI and Nai XI.

And he is ahead of rest of the guys with huge margin. Kapil Dev 632 Next high Flintoff 550 So a lead of 82 points is very high.

[Lurker]

And he is ahead of rest of the guys with huge margin. Kapil Dev 632 Next high Flintoff 550 So a lead of 82 points is very high.

Thanks for sharing. Essentially then Kapil was no 1 World LOI all rounder from 83 till end of his career. And the margin with Imran, Botham, Hadlee would be huge if Flintoff comes in second. I suppose that should settle who makes to all time LOI world XI then :dance:

[CSK Fan]

Nobody says that. The argument is rather simple - In toughest games it is expected for an all time great to stand up and be counted. Now you can suggest 2 games is not enough, and to me that is rather ridiculous, because 2 opportunities in essence 8 years of top cricket. If you are expecting a 4-5 outing in WC finals to prove your importance then frankly you have a big question mark over your temperament. And pray do tell how many great players, aside from Aussies and Windies, ever received 2 chances in finals?? Kapil, Imran, Miandad, Akram, Arvinda, Murali, Border, Chappell, Botham....they all had 1 chance at the highest level. Some made it count, others didnt. Sachin belongs to latter category. Like I said earlier, no harm done, but lets not make an argument out of nothing here. xxx

What exactly did Imran do in the world cup final, wasntr it Javed and Akram who won that match? As for Viv, Ponting, etc, all of them had the luxury of batting first and setting the target which Sachin never had. All I am saying is its not a level playing field. Some guys had it easier than others and hence this cannot be used to judge players I will repeat two games are not enough because in a sampel that small things like luck, toss, etc can play a much bigger role than in a bigger sample size