Funny, Us Indian Fans

[living]

IMO' date=' it was rather disingenuous of Kumble to allow him such latitude. So we have only ourselves to blame, you see.[/quote'] Cricket is supposed to be a gentleman's game, I guess the aussies have forgotten this fact if they are willing to go through any means to win a game. And first it wasn't just as Indian fans making all the noise after the test, lots of Australian greats also had lots to say. Seriously, just accept it and move on. I'm sure there have been many occasions previously when we have blown situations out of proportion by crying about how the world is against us etc., but in this case all the noise was justified.

[beetle]

Aussies took the defeat in their stride just like the other teams have been taking it for so long.India finally stood up to the bullies......They got a few bad decision...just too bad.Like the aussies say ,it all evens out. It will take a lot more than 2 bad decisions to even out the advantage they have had for some time. This win was just because the bad decisions were unbiased ....unlike in Sydney where we were robbed.

[suma25]

This win was just because the bad decisions were unbiased ....unlike in Sydney where we were robbed.

we may have been robbed of a win at sydney but we still should have saved the match at sydney(as in drawn the match)

[fineleg]

We're not proud of the fact. We certainly will do with the technology because of which a couple of decision would have gone in India's favour too when they were batting. Sachin LWB in the first inning, does anyone remember? Ponting would have depated yesterday itself. Hussey too enjoyed the slice of luck in the morning session. I'm all for technology which would give a batsman out when he is out!

:two_thumbs_up: Get technology. Make it consistent. Then Ind will win this series. Umpiring mistakes dont even out, and tech can be used for consistency.

[Chandan]

IMO, the concept of fairplay in today's sport, with many millions of dollars at stake in the form of wages and endorsements, is naive. There are careers at stake here. Dog eat dog and all that.

Sydney was not just about the umpiring errors happening on the field. It was an extraordinary match in which both the umpires were off colour, to put it mildly, and both were erring for only one team. Not even that, the third umpire also decided to err in favour of the same team. And yeah!! I'll see how Australia reacts when one umpire keeps on killing them in every match that he officiates when Australia are playing FOR 5 YEARS, and when such an important match is in line. If they'll take his decisions with their heads bowed, I'll agree that we were wrong.

[ludhianvi]

Well tbh, the Hussey decision seemed much better compared to the ones that got Tendulkar and Dhoni in the first innings. I, in particular, didnt go after a certain umpire in the last test at Sydney. It was more of an anger towards the Clarke catching fiasco with Ponting showing the finger to umpire Benson and also Buckoner not referring the stumping decision to the third umpire. Those two incidents I didnt like.

[observer1]

Nice victory. One for the ages. To be savoured Today, out there, Australia had two bad decisions. Hussey and Symonds were both unfortunate to be given out. Earlier in the match, Rogers was LBW to a delivery that would have fleetingly kissed the outside of his leg stump. Later, with India 5-down and Ganguly just departed, the match hanging by a thread, Pathan had one thud into his pads from Johnson, that would have uprooted the leg-stump. Funny, I don't see any calls for retribution from the Aussies. No calls for Bowden and Rauf to be sacked, not even a muttering about how the cookies had not crumbled their way, just an open and unqualified admission from Ponting that India had outplayed his side. Yes, we had by far the worse of the umpiring at Sydney. Yes, they were vital decisions, but at the end of the day, they were umpiring mistakes, just like the ones that transpired in this match. They were not deliberate, not pre-meditated, not a vendetta, just mistakes. Seeing how close the Aussies got today, it's not inconceivable that the two umpiring mistakes against Hussey and Symonds cost them their improbable 17th victory. Oh, I know, the decisions Bucknor made were graver errors, that he should have heard the nick off Symond's bat, heard the thwack off Dravid's pad, but that does not make him a cheat.

I have edited and quoted your post DD. Going by the standards you have set up , Tendulkar and Dhoni werent out, and Ponting was out at least twice. My estimation (as good as yours) - we would have won this by an innings if the umpires had got it right in this match, and SRT had got his 200. My simplistic observations on umpiring - do not whinge about lbws - the debate will be eternal (rsd vs sreesanth at lords, srt and dhoni vs hussey and symonds ad nauseum) - but, do discuss edges to the keeper that the whole ground heard, do discuss third umpire referrals or the lack thereof Proudly opportunist as usual!

[Dhondy]

I have edited and quoted your post DD. Going by the standards you have set up , Tendulkar and Dhoni werent out, and Ponting was out at least twice. My estimation (as good as yours) - we would have won this by an innings if the umpires had got it right in this match, and SRT had got his 200. Proudly opportunist as usual!

See that's the problem- predicting this that or the other would have happened if the decisions had gone the other way. The point is that they didn't. It's an excercise in complete futility. That's where the Aussie mindset differs from us. We let ourselves boil in our own rage, they have already taken it on the chin and moved on. They blame none but themselves, we blame all others but ourselves. The magnitude of umpiring errors post-hoc is a discussion in futility- you don't control the umpires, and once the decisions have been taken, there's nothing you can do about them. Imputing motives to umpires is immature, IMO, because it reeks of throwing toys out of the pram because Mommy won't push me. Would you reconsider your post?

[Mandrake]

"Funny, I don't see any calls for retribution from the Aussies. No calls for Bowden and Rauf to be sacked, not even a muttering about how the cookies had not crumbled their way, just an open and unqualified admission from Ponting that India had outplayed his side." They would look funny if they made a noise against the umpiring in this match. Both sides got some bad decisions in this test. I would like to see how Aussies take it when they get decisions like we did in Sydney.We all saw how Symonds copped a bad decision yesterday...pretty sporting indeed.

[Ram]

I disagree with the OP. Sydney isnt the first time we have gotten shafted by the umpires, and for that matter, it wont be the last. But the kind of errors that were made in Sydney were so glaring that we couldnt simply step aside and take it silently. India didnt ask for a pro-India umpire to replace Bucknor. It asked for an umpire who would do his job well, that is all.

[observer1]

See that's the problem- predicting this that or the other would have happened if the decisions had gone the other way. The point is that they didn't. It's an excercise in complete futility. They blame none but themselves, we blame all others but ourselves. The magnitude of umpiring errors post-hoc is a discussion in futility- you don't control the umpires, and once the decisions have been taken, there's nothing you can do about them. Imputing motives to umpires is immature, IMO, because it reeks of throwing toys out of the pram because Mommy won't push me. Would you reconsider your post?

If you noticed, DD, I only hypothesised contrary to you - there was no point in you speculating that Aus would have won if Hussey and Symonds were favoured - I can go on and say India would have won by an innings if only etc. Again, my dispute (and most people's) were about the third umpire not getting it right, and SB not even referring the next time, and in addition, him missing the most blatant of edges. Mistakes happen, and you and I know they do - however, is it not incumbent on us to report recurrent errors to the governing body and protect the general public from further danger if we suspect that there is a bad apple in the basket? Which is what the Indians did. Justifiably. And, in their wisdom, the ICC thought it would be unwise to allow someone prone to catastrophic errors to continue in their job.

[Bumper]

Dhondy, am not the one to complain about umpiring errors in every test match. But your comparisons between the two tests (Perth vs Sydney) couldnt be more far off. This test saw 'normal umpiring errors' -- the ones you see in every test match, ones that can be attributed to the human factor. Its further bolstered by the fact that India & Australia got equal no. of decisions in their favor (approx). Tendulkar (was out earlier to Symonds in his 30s, but was ruled not out), he was not out in the 70s (but ruled out), Dhoni was not out when he was given, Dravid was out plumb LBW to Johnson (not given), Ponting was out LBW to Ishant (not given), Gilly was out LBW to Kumble in the first innings (not given), Hussey & Symmo got sawed off in the 2nd innings etc etc. The errors evened out approximately. But in Sydney, the umpiring errors were so glaring that it appeared the two umpires were conniving with the Aussies to plot our downfall. And one of the two umpires, had been doing this for years, unquestioned. To top it all, the Aussies did their part, claiming bump catches & forcing the umpires into making ridiculously one sided decisions. Wasnt Bucknor the guy who recalled Pietersen (when Dhoni took that contraversial catch), on BOD ? Why wouldnt he do that for Ganguly in very similar circumstances ? If this aint bias, i dont know what else is. It takes a LOT to compete with the world's best team. Lots of things will have to fall in place for the lesser team. Three reprieves to a SET Aussie batsman, 2 or 3 crucial decisions going against you in the 4th innings is not something lesser teams can bounce back from. The Bhajji incident didnt help either. It only exacerbated the situation, riling up the Indians even further. Was the reaction a bit OTT ? Perhaps! But it yielded the right results in the end. See how Aussies behaved at Perth ? No bullying of umpires, no ridiculous appeals, Jacques admitting a bump ball catch, no war of words etc. And more importantly we have forced the much needed accountability among the ICC's elite panel of umpires. Bucknor has been held accountable for his mistakes, something ICC wouldnt have done in 1 million years. And am sure all this drama, should have inspired our players to be even more determined to win this test match.

[beetle]

>>>>>Was the reaction a bit OTT ? Perhaps! But it yielded the right results in the end. See how Aussies behaved at Perth ? No bullying of umpires, no ridiculous appeals, Jacques admitting a bump ball catch, no war of words etc. And more importantly we have forced the much needed accountability among the ICC's elite panel of umpires. Bucknor has been held accountable for his mistakes, something ICC wouldnt have done in 1 million years. And am sure all this drama, should have inspired our players to be even more determined to win this test match. That in itself is a victory .

[Bumper]

And trust the Aussies to raise a stinker should umpiring cause them test matches on a more regular basis. Infact Aussie are usually the first to whinge after a loss. Remember Ponting's reactions during Ashes 2005 ? Or after the Mumbai'04 loss ? If a subcontinental umpire repeatedly shafts them, he'd be booted out of the panel in no time.

[The Outsider]

What happened at Sydney was not umpiring errors. It was a complete breakdown of the umpiring system at best and hand in glove tactics with one team at worst. Third umpire giving a wrong decision, third umpire not being called for one team and being called for the other, and the umpire consulting with the fielding captain to find out whether a delivery was caught cleanly or not cannot be attributed to umpiring errors. Only apologists would do so.

[Dhondy]

Look, I don't know if you guys agree with this, but the "enormity" of umpiring mistakes always varies directly with the goof-ups by the losing side. I have two points to make. Firstly, none of you felt that India's loss at Sydney had anything to do with their own frailty under pressure.In that final innings, they couldn't bat out 70 overs to save the match. So there was one bad decision and an indeterminate one in Ganguly's dismissal not being referred. Are you now telling me that those were the main reasons for losing the match? They have lost out from a similar situation on almost every occasion in the recent past, with the glorious exception of Lords. Remember Bangalore against Pakistan, and the last man Balaji, falling 5 overs before close of play? Remember Durban, where India couldn't bat out 50 overs before the rains came? Remember Mumbai, where they fell for 100 against England? I could accept your argument if this were not almost the unwritten rule with India in such situations. The umpiring may have contributed, but on that last day eight or nine man were dismissed, who should have done much better than they did. I think you guys are just trying to deflect the blame onto the umpires for their failures. All excuses accepted gratefully by those concerned, I am sure. Secondly, what sort of precedent does this set? How far is the day when another side, aggrieved over a loss and some poor decisions, demands the summary removal of the umpire from the series? What would your thoughts be? As neutrals? Perhaps even as the opposition? Surely, you have got to, simply got to see this as the rest of the world does- it was bullying, arm-twisting, tantrum-throwing at its very worst, one that set a terrible precedent and darkened our image as cricket lovers.

[The Outsider]

Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. What happened at Sydney was a breakdown of the umpiring system like at the Oval and called for a wholesale shake up. Dhondy, stop being a contrarian and an apologist just for the sake of sounding different by comparing two entirely different events.

[Dhondy]

And trust the Aussies to raise a stinker should umpiring cause them test matches on a more regular basis. Infact Aussie are usually the first to whinge after a loss. Remember Ponting's reactions during Ashes 2005 ? Or after the Mumbai'04 loss ? If a subcontinental umpire repeatedly shafts them, he'd be booted out of the panel in no time.

Yes, Australia had every right to be aggrieved by the farcical Mumbai pitch. It was clearly unfit for cricket. We weren't too chuffed with the tracks in NZ either, remember? What was Ponting's reaction to Ashes 2005? He didn't ask for removal of the neutral umpires, did he? He made a statement about England's underhand use of a specialist fielder as substitute, which was valid. And Australia have been at the receiving end of series turning decisions before- never was a furore of this magnitude seen. The Kasprowicz decision that lost them the Ashes has been already discussed. In the Adelaide Test of 1997 against the West Indies, Craig McDermott was given out caught behind with Australia two runs from victory. Replays subsequently showed the ball hit the brim of his helmet passing through. Australia were one test up in the series and would’ve won it with two more runs. They eventually lost the series 2-1.

[chanakya]

See that's the problem- predicting this that or the other would have happened if the decisions had gone the other way. The point is that they didn't. It's an excercise in complete futility. That's where the Aussie mindset differs from us. We let ourselves boil in our own rage, they have already taken it on the chin and moved on. They blame none but themselves, we blame all others but ourselves. The magnitude of umpiring errors post-hoc is a discussion in futility- you don't control the umpires, and once the decisions have been taken, there's nothing you can do about them. Imputing motives to umpires is immature, IMO, because it reeks of throwing toys out of the pram because Mommy won't push me. Would you reconsider your post?

We lost badly in Melbourne, were we screaming about howlers in Melbourne? We were screaming in Sydney for more than just umpiring. And yes Bucknor has a bias. Bias does not mean that he was not a good umpire once. Bias for a team that consistently wins is a given no doubts about that. The question which is up for grabs when it comes to Bucknor is whether he can officiate without his evident bias towards India getting in the way? And the fact is he has repeatedly shown that he cannot. It may be something which he does not even accept. There are going to be umpires who have biases no doubt about that but the ones that officiate well without them is what cricket needs.

[Dhondy]

Again' date=' you are comparing apples with oranges. What happened at Sydney was a breakdown of the umpiring system like at the Oval and called for a wholesale shake up. Dhondy, stop being a contrarian and an apologist just for the sake of sounding different by comparing two entirely different events.[/quote'] Nope, nothing of that sort. If you cannot take off your Indian glasses, and see this from a neutral POV, you will never get my point. There were no wholesale changes after Oval, nor after Sydney. In both cases, a subcontinental team, alleging all sorts of discrimination, was appeased by the removal of the concerned umpire at the alter of convenience.