Domestic Cricket Ranji Trophy 2017/18

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

We do not express bowlers to win matches. Hazelwood, Starc, Cummins were mostly bowling 138-142 k range and that is enough Pace if you can be consistent. Other things, yes Aaron and Yadav didn't develop, so, should we not give others chances. There are some good talent in domestic cricket and even if two of the can do well, it will be a good addition to the pool.

 

Aniket chaudhary

Ankit Rajpoot

Navdeep Saini

Basil Thampi

Siraj

Nathu Singh who is recovering from back injury

Avesh

Khaleel

Sangwan

 

These are ten bowlers capable of bowling 140 or more. Sangwan, Nathu, Thampi are quickest of them. Have bowled 145k or more. Can they develop at least two out these ten into world class bowlers

Speed is just one element and 140 is not express in any book. Hazelwood , Starc and Cummins are all 6'5' tall and they generate so much bounce which a shorter guy like Saini cannot generate even in his wildest dreams , they play will Kookaburra ball both in SA and Australia which goes soft after 20-25 overs.

 

Guys like Saini will  be fodder if they don't get any movement with that ball.

 

Of all the people you mentioned above I will still take the five who have been selected.Saini can do more with Duke ball than Kookaburra ball and that is my personal opinion.

 

Yadav has gone off kilter this season but it happens to every bowler , he was not only durable but was hostile last season  he deserves to go to SA in my book.

 

The people you mentioned will get their chances they will have IPl and other matches. As the saying in baseball goes you never have enough pitchers the same thing is applicable here too you never have enough fast bowlers.

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Philander has raw pace? Neither Rabada bowls much quicker than Saini. Hr bowled up to 90 mph in this game which is enough pace to be successful anywhere. The most important thing is bowling in right areas.

Are you seriously equating Philander to Saini.Guy like Philander is very unique he can put the ball on a 25 cent coin anywhere on the pitch if Saini can do that good for him then .He will be for sure in the team to England.

 

Rabada bowls lot faster than Saini and he is much taller also.

Edited December 19, 2017 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Are you seriously equating Philander to Saini.Guy like Philander is very unique he can put the ball on a 25 cent coin anywhere on the pitch if Saini can do that good for him then .He will be for sure in the team to England.

 

Rabada bowls lot faster than Saini and he is much taller also.

no.  i am not. i  am just you don't need raw pace in SA. You need a combination of bowlers. 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

no.  i am not. i  am just you don't need raw pace in SA. You need a combination of bowlers. 

They have combination bowlers right now too, Bhuvi is swing bowler, Shami is hit the deck and seam and Ishant is tall and can generate bounce.Yadav is a skidder. Pandya is unknown to me yet.

 

I just don't see how Saini better than any of these bowlers, if they get injured or don't do well he will get his chances.

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They have combination bowlers right now too, Bhuvi is swing bowler, Shami is hit the deck and seam and Ishant is tall and can generate bounce.Yadav is a skidder. Pandya is unknown to me yet.

 

I just don't see how Saini better than any of these bowlers, if they get injured or don't do well he will get his chances.

Saini already outperformed Shami in this game itself and outpaced too. If this is the thinking, no team will ever play new players thinking that new one is no better than the older one. Until new one plays, we will never know. until he plays, he will not improve.       

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

There is no express bowler in the country who is currently sitting out. Saini may be good but I don't term him as an express bowler who is can't miss at expense of bowlers already selected for the tour.

 

Yadav and Aaron had that express speeds which none of these guys possess. They have not progressed as well as we want them to is another story.But they sure had raw tools.

 

 

We don't need wayward express bowlers.

 

We need pacers who combine pace / bounce  with reasonable accuracy.   135 k  to  145 k  is good enough if bowler is accurate.

 

Who are those pacers in India  ?

 

Shami, Bumrah  and now Saini.

 

I will add Bhuvi to the mix because of his superb accuracy and ability to take fifers.

 

These are the 4 pacers ( Shami, Bhuvi, Bumrah, Saini )  I will focus on as of now.

 

Combination of pace / bounce and accuracy is the key ...... with one ultra accurate pacer additionally.

 

Names are not important  .... whoever meets these parameters.

 

  

Edited December 19, 2017 by express bowling

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Saini already outperformed Shami in this game itself and outpaced too. If this is the thinking, no team will ever play new players thinking that new one is no better than the older one. Until new one plays, we will never know. until he plays, he will not improve.       

Your point is right but you just don't discard player like that unless the new player is bringing something extra special .Especially after last season where Yadav for the first time has shown improvement and consistency.

 

He has not been great but it takes time to get into rhythm for a guy like him I think as he was best in Australian series.They have invested too much time in Yadav and Shami to discard them without seeing what they can do now in SA.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

We don't need wayward express bowlers.

 

We need pacers who combine pace / bounce  with reasonable accuracy.   135 k  to  145 k  is good enough if bowler is accurate.

 

Who are those pacers in India  ?

 

Shami, Bumrah  and now Saini.

 

I will add Bhuvi to the mix because of his superb accuracy and ability to take fifers.

 

These are the 4 pacers ( Shami, Bhuvi, Bumrah, Saini )  I will focus on as of now.

 

Combination of pace / bounce and accuracy is the key ...... with one ultra accurate pacer additionally.

 

Names are not important  .... whoever meets these parameters.

 

  

Well when Saini does something against better batsmen I will say he has leaped in front of Yadav till then Yadav is still my bowler.

 

Saini is not that either 135k to 145k bowler either.

Edited December 19, 2017 by putrevus

[express bowling]

Just now, putrevus said:

Well when Saini does something against better batsmen I will say he has leaped in front of Yadav till then Yadav is still my bowler.

 

Different people will have different opinions

 

That is natural

 

But, I would really want the Indian cricketing fraternity to focus on pacers who combine pace / bounce with accuracy as of today, ignoring names.

 

Umesh is down on both accuracy and pace in the last 4 months, he needs to improve to be in the playing 11. We won't win in SA with inaccurate pacers.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Different people will have different opinions

 

That is natural

 

But, I would really want the Indian cricketing fraternity to focus on pacers who combine pace / bounce with accuracy as of today, ignoring names.

 

Umesh is down on both accuracy and pace in the last 4 months, he needs to improve to be in the playing 11. We won't win in SA with inaccurate pacers.

I never look for names  but look at speed. You can't teach speed or bounce.Umesh is down on pace this year but you just don't discard a guy who has shown so much improvement last year.The biggest plus for both Umesh and Ishant is they are always available for selection for any fast bowler that is most important.

 

Saini is not a youngster has he reached peak in his development or he can still grow.India is going to play lot of matches overseas over next 18 months if Saini is missing out for first test it is not a big deal.If he does well again in Ranji trophy finals he will boost his case further.You never have enough fast bowlers.

[rkt.india]

17 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Well when Saini does something against better batsmen I will say he has leaped in front of Yadav till then Yadav is still my bowler.

 

Saini is not that either 135k to 145k bowler either.

Saini bowled 135-144k in this game itself and Shami was slower than him on average and Shami was running in hard. 

[rkt.india]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Your point is right but you just don't discard player like that unless the new player is bringing something extra special .Especially after last season where Yadav for the first time has shown improvement and consistency.

 

He has not been great but it takes time to get into rhythm for a guy like him I think as he was best in Australian series.They have invested too much time in Yadav and Shami to discard them without seeing what they can do now in SA.

i am not discarding Shami, but Yadav has played enough without showing enough improvement as a bowler. i thought after Aus series, he would be a different bowler, but that was not the case.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I never look for names  but look at speed. You can't teach speed or bounce.Umesh is down on pace this year but you just don't discard a guy who has shown so much improvement last year.The biggest plus for both Umesh and Ishant is they are always available for selection for any fast bowler that is most important.

 

Saini is not a youngster has he reached peak in his development or he can still grow.India is going to play lot of matches overseas over next 18 months if Saini is missing out for first test it is not a big deal.If he does well again in Ranji trophy finals he will boost his case further.You never have enough fast bowlers.

 

No one is asking Umesh to be discarded.  We need a pool of pacers and he is one of them. Let him get back his pace and reasonable accuracy and he can play. 

 

Saini is not even in the squad for SA, so, barring injuries, he won't play.

 

But he needs to be in our pool of international pacers.

[rkt.india]

 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Saini bowled 135-144k in this game itself and Shami was slower than him on average and Shami was running in hard. 

He sure must have but it is good to see all Shami and Yadav bowling lot of overs. I wish Ishant would have played too  they certainly need lot of overs under the belt to get into rhythm.

 

Saini will play for India in next 18 months.Shami is very fragile and Bhuvi is Bhuvi. So Bumrah and Saini can start new fast bowling tandem, I wish Bumrah played some red ball cricket too.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

No one is asking Umesh to be discarded.  We need a pool of pacers and he is one of them. Let him get back his pace and reasonable accuracy and he can play. 

 

Saini is not even in the squad for SA, so, barring injuries, he won't play.

 

But he needs to be in our pool of international pacers.

The point of discussion is not about pool but if the team selected in the best fast bowlers which which we have currently and my answer is yes.

 

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

The point of discussion is not about pool but if the team selected in the best fast bowlers which which we have currently and my answer is yes.

 

 

By pool, I mean those pacers who should be in our away tour squads.

 

And I am in favour of adding Saini is an additional member and additional pacer, no need to remove anyone.

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

The point of discussion is not about pool but if the team selected in the best fast bowlers which which we have currently and my answer is yes.

 

 

and the problem until we try new bowlers, answer will always be yes. They tried Aniket Chaudhary in warmup against BD, he picked a 4-fer and never and is then forgotten. we are in dire need of a left armer and Aniket is good. he is 6'4" tall, swings the ball at good pace but they are so reluctant to play new pacers at home. when Shami got injured, they got back Umesh who struggled in the previous game. Instead should have picked either Bumrah or some other newcomer like Chaudhary or Saini.   

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

By pool, I mean those pacers who should be in our away tour squads.

 

And I am in favour of adding Saini is an additional member and additional pacer, no need to remove anyone.

18 members is bit too much for 3 test tour.I think he is better of playing Ranjis.

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

18 members is bit too much for 3 test tour.I think he is better of playing Ranjis.

only one ranji game left. which will be over by the time test starts.