"We will judge ourselves on whether or not we're a great cricket team if we beat India in India" : Justin Langer

[mancalledsting]

20 minutes ago, Gollum said:

My be, may not be. Eng, SA, Pak and even India in home matches have gotten exaggerated reverse swing. They probably play safe overseas unlike Aussies because home broadcasters are more forgiving. Smith got caught and has been punished for a year..will miss 14 odd test matches and a whole lot of momentum, nothing more to say really . 

I think it’s safe to assume that most teams don’t use foreign objects- quite hard to disguise. even Atherton got caught in 1990s when camera technology was nowhere near as good. That was at home too. 

[hhhhdmt]

On 5/3/2018 at 12:38 PM, putrevus said:

Bowlers win matches but batsmen have to make sure they give enough support to bowlers. There was not one overseas series where Fab did not collapse, even in 2003-04 Australia series, After Sehwag gave them that great launching pad they collapsed and ended up losing match and there by lost a golden chance to win a series in Australia who had Mcagill and Brad Williams as bowlers.

 

Same thing with Pakistani bowlers they are somehow regarded as these great bowlers but they never won  a test in Australia if I am not wrong and won one test in SA.All they did was beat up NZ and England when they were as good as minnows.Their batting was weak but bowling never raised its level to help weaker side.

 

Indian batting was stronger than bowling but they never raised their bar up in difficult situations and help out bowlers. 2003 NZ is classic example bowlers did their jobs but batting was horrible.

 

You cannot blame Indian bowlers for recent SA test series loss because Indian batting unit rarely gave them anything to work. Same thing was during Fab 4 era.I really hope with renewed focus on away series batting comes good at least in England.

 

We want batsman who thrive in adversity and will put a price of their wicket and not look like tailenders .

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16249/scorecard/63699/australia-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-pakistan-tour-of-australia-1995-96/

 

They did win a test in Aus, and drew a series in SA. But yes, they did underachieve a bit in those countries. 

 

Regarding India's fab 4, Tendulkar did pretty well in Aus/SA/Eng. Tendulkar did have a bit of a mental block vs McGrath but even then he scored good runs vs Aus. 

 

Laxman was very good vs SA/Aus but weak vs Eng. 

 

Dravid was wonderful vs Eng but weaker vs full strength Aus and decent vs SA

 

Sehwag was good in Aus and pretty mediocre elsewhere in SA/ENg

 

That's why i never understood why some rank Dravid ahead of Sachin in tests. Sachin is a notch above Dravid in tests. 

[Suhaan]

On Fri May 04 2018 at 12:28 AM, upriser7 said:

I remember Sachin being injured in that 2003-04 series which Aussies won...he even missed few tests in that series. Also, we should have won that Chennai test but iirc rain played spoilsport

Absolutely that wash out ensured Aus won its first series after long long gap in India....

[Gollum]

7 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Absolutely that wash out ensured Aus won its first series after long long gap in India....

Do you really think we were getting that 200 odd on day 5 Chepauk against that Aussie bowling line up who were phenomenal that tour? Not to forget apart from Viru our batsmen were struggling and even Viru had an atrocious 4th innings record. Remember how a much more in form Indian team got the 120 odd at the same venue 3 years earlier against an inferior Aussie attack?

Edited May 5, 2018 by Gollum

[Suhaan]

Yes anyhow it could have been a humongous task for the Indian lineup against that all surface all conditions attack of the Aussies but still Indians could have fancied their chances then..

Edited May 5, 2018 by Suhaan

[Lala]

We have already beaten India in India so we think we are a great team. 

[Suhaan]

13 minutes ago, Lala said:

We have already beaten India in India so we think we are a great team. 

Its in your routine to overlook the context of a statement,he is talking about winning in alien Conditions,winning in India has been every captains golden dream who come  from different shores,Pak ha s won in India, great achievement ,but you cant equate it with performance of non sc teams ,they dont come across pace and seam movement in India rather they have to dance to the tunes of Indian spinners which they have failed most of the times

[MechEng]

On 5/3/2018 at 8:09 AM, Gollum said:

How great were Fab 4 against the mighty Aussies though always brought their best game against the best. Had they shown even 80% of that potential against other teams, we would have stomped over the likes of England, NZ, SA, Lanka and Pak in the 1995-2008 period even with our light bowling...alas that wasn't meant to be. 

I believe it was more of Laxman and Harbhajan rather than fab 4 who stood up against Aussies.

 

Laxman in the 1999/2000 tour to Australia was about to retire from cricket and focus on medicine as suggested by his father, so the Sydney game was a do or die. And then in Sydney he made 167, which rejuvenated his cricket career. I guess that's how he got his confidence to score against Australia.

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, MechEng said:

I believe it was more of Laxman and Harbhajan rather than fab 4 who stood up against Aussies.

 

Laxman in the 1999/2000 tour to Australia was about to retire from cricket and focus on medicine as suggested by his father, so the Sydney game was a do or die. And then in Sydney he made 167, which rejuvenated his cricket career. I guess that's how he got his confidence to score against Australia.

Laxman was superlative against them but they all stepped in at various times.

 

SRT- 1998, 1999-00, 2001, 2004 Sydney, 2004 Mumbai, 2007 & 2008 away and home, 2010

Dravid- 2001, 2003-04, 2008 Perth

Laxman- 1999 Sydney, 2001, 2003-04, 2004 Mumbai, 2007 & 2008 away and home, 2010

Sehwag- 2003-04, 2004 Chennai, 2008 away (Perth and Adelaide)

Even Dada joined the party here and there but unquestionably less impressive than the other 4.

 

In their peak period (2001-2010) the only time Fab4 collectively failed was 2004 home series and at long last Aussies conquered their final frontier after 35 years.

 

Regarding your point about Harbhajan I will argue that Kumble was better than him against Australia. What Bhajji did in 2001 Kumble did in 1995 solitary test and 1998 home series, and he didn't even chuck !!!!

Kumble picked 111 Aussie wickets in 20 tests, Bhajji picked 95 in 18 tests. Against Aus Kumble was as good as Bhajji at home but he also did very well downunder. His 2003-04 show in Aus is probably the best ever show by any visiting spinner there in the modern era, he was the leading wicket taker (24) on those pattas against that fearsome batting unit with a 12 wicket haul in SCG, funny thing he only played 3 tests that tour. Bhajji played in Brisbane and went for 170/1 in 2 innings. Even in our 2007-08 tour Kumble took 20 wickets and comprehensively outbowled Bhajji.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;opposition=2;template=results;type=bowling

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/29264.html?class=1;opposition=2;template=results;type=bowling

 

People remember Bhajji mainly for 2001 series but apart from that and the 2004 Wankhede bunsen, he was largely ineffective against them. Sure he got Ponting out many times but other Aus batters played him pretty easily...in fact even with Ponting the majority of his dismissals happened in 1998 and 2001, after 2003 WC onslaught the Aussie wiped off his mental block. The 2001 series was an anomaly and people may not like to hear this but IMO he became Chuckbhajan in that series. Without doosra Bhajji was never really a great test bowler and in that series doosra became his primary weapon. Another reason why I rate Kumble as better.

 

Visiting offies mostly struggle in Australia. Bhajji and Murali both struggled immensely. Ashwin has better returns over there than both and that too without employing doosra at any point of his career plus the bad luck of being captained by 2011-2015 MSD in most of the matches there.