How important (the degree) is doing well in SENA in Tests?

[Lannister]

23 minutes ago, zen said:

So? 

How can you call yourself best if you don't perform in top test nations? 

 

Steyn has performed in India, Cook has performed in India and Pujara is a failure outside India. Why do you think no one rates Pujara all that much or Indian test team, for that matter?  

[zen]

1 hour ago, Lannister said:

How can you call yourself best if you don't perform in top test nations? 

 

Steyn has performed in India, Cook has performed in India and Pujara is a failure outside India. Why do you think no one rates Pujara all that much or Indian test team, for that matter?  

Last I checked the top nations do not perform in Ind consistently as well 

 

Best = the famous teams of WI and Aus. Are we like those teams? We are simply better than the others atm and therefore deserving #1 ranking in the current dynamics 

 

I don’t know why Pujara is being discussed. But like team Ind, he too is not the best but better than some of the others  that we have .... And we have likes of Kohli who are doing well. Unfortunately, we do not have more batsmen of that class currently ....  tomorrow,  we will say Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep are not like Warne and Murali. But if we had Warne and Murali, why would we play Ashwin and Jadeja. We play Ash and Jadeja because they are perceived to be better than others currently ..... Tomorrow Pak fans will say that xyz is not performing like Kohli. To be best, our batsmen have to perform like Kohli. But then from where are they going to get 4-5 Kohlis?  .... Realistically, they have to do with resources available .... if we do not have viable resources, the home-overseas discussion could become pointless .... and so on 

 

Anyways, this thread is NOT about players but team Ind 

 

I guess many fans have conjured up this image of #1 ranking to mean like WI and Aus team of the past, and they become emotional when the team/players don’t measure up .... We have to be realistic and balanced 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by zen

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Last I checked the top nations do not perform in Ind consistently as well recently 

 

Best = the famous teams of WI and Aus. Are we like those teams? We are simply better than the others atm and therefore deserving #1 ranking in the current status 

 

I don’t know why Pujara is being discussed. But like team Ind, he too is not the best but better than some of the others  that we have .... And we have liked of Kohli who are doing well. Unfortunately, we do not have more batsmen of that class currently ....  tomorrow,  we will say Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep are not like Warne and Murali. But if we had Warne and Murali, why would we play Ashwin and Jadeja. We play Ash and Jadeja because they are perceived to be better than others currently ..... Tomorrow Pak fans will say that xyz is not performing like Kohli. To be best, our batsmen have to perform like Kohli. But then from where are they going to get 4-5 Kohlis?  .... Realistically, they have to do with resources available .... and so on 

 

Anyways, this thread is NOT about players but team Ind 

 

I guess many fans have conjured up this image of #1 equation to being like WI and Aus team of the past, and become emotional when the team/players don’t measure up .... they have to be realistic and balanced 

 

 

 

Let's compare the results of top 3 test nations of this decade, ie. India, SA and England.

 

England since 2011: Won Test series in Australia, India and SA.

Drew in SL and NZ.

 

SA since 2011: Won Test series in NZ, Eng, SL and Australia.

Drew in UAE.

 

India: 

 

But, you are right. We shouldn't give preference to winning in SENA nations as that is beyond our ability. Let's just fool ourselves in thinking they are not that important. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Lannister

[zen]

23 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Let's compare the results of top 3 test nations of this decade, ie. India, SA and England.

 

England since 2011: Won Test series in Australia, India and SA.

Drew in SL and NZ.

 

SA since 2011: Won Test series in NZ, Eng, SL and Australia.

Drew in UAE.

 

India: 

 

But, you are right. We shouldn't give preference to winning in SENA nations as that is beyond our ability. Let's just fool ourselves in thinking they are not that important. 

Those are different teams with different dynamics  .... we are number #1 currently because of our strengths in certain domains (and not because of our weaknesses) 

 

There is a difference b/w considering SENA imp and being obsessed about it   .... Becoming obsessed could lead us to bad decisions like playing 5 Rahanes for e.g., to do well in SENA but ending up losing both at home and away

 

As mentioned in the OP itself - “It is imp to win everywhere but ....” 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by zen

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Let's compare the results of top 3 test nations of this decade, ie. India, SA and England.

 

England since 2011: Won Test series in Australia, India and SA.

Drew in SL and NZ.

 

SA since 2011: Won Test series in NZ, Eng and Australia.

Drew in UAE and SL.

 

India: 

 

 

Top post  !

 

A top team has to perform both home and away against other good teams.

 

Incidentally, all the good teams we play now in tests are SENA teams.  When we played Pakistan then those series had a lot of importance too.  The same when the WI was a great power.

Edited October 11, 2018 by express bowling

[Lannister]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

Those are different teams with different dynamics  .... we are number #1 currently because of our strengths in certain domains (and not because of our weaknesses) 

 

There is a difference b/w considering SENA imp and being obsessed about it   .... Becoming obsessed could lead us to bad decisions like playing 5 Rahanes for e.g., to do well in SENA but ending up losing both at home and away

 

As mentioned in the OP itself - “SENA is imp but ....” 

 

I don't know about you. You call yourself a test fan and yet, here you are finding it hard to distinguish between home test series wins and away test series wins.

 

No offence, you say we are obsessed with white nations and yet, you live in one of those countries serving your colonial masters. What does that make of you? 

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

could lead us to bad decisions like playing 5 Rahanes for e.g., to do well in SENA but ending up losing both at home and away

 

 

1.  We don't have even 2 Rahanes.   He is an unique piece who can't bat at home.  Never seen another such batsman from India.  

 

2.  Choosing Ashwin, Jadeja, Pujara, Kohli and Shami in tests at home  ( in that order of importance )  will ensure us regular wins.   And we always do that.  All the other positions can be experimented with, with no difference in performance.

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Lannister said:

I don't know about you. You call yourself a test fan and yet, here you are finding it hard to distinguish between home test series wins and away test series wins.

 

No offence, you say we are obsessed with white nations and yet, you live in one of those countries serving your colonial masters. What does that make of you? 

I am more balanced   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zen]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

1.  We don't have even 2 Rahanes.   He is an unique piece who can't bat at home.  Never seen another such batsman from India.  

 

2.  Choosing Ashwin, Jadeja, Pujara, Kohli and Shami in tests at home  ( in that order of importance )  will ensure us regular wins.   And we always do that.  All the other positions can be experimented with, with no difference in performance.

I have nothing against experimenting or planning to win. But currently we tend to rotate bowlers only 

 

This discussion is more about obsession with SENA and in the process undermining our current achievements and positives. Like you would read in this thread itself - what use is #1 if we don't, what use is this if we don't and so on .... 

 

 

[bhakum20]

Yes they matter more.

Ranking system needs to be changed, away wins need to be given more points as simple as that. then no one will have any false notions of being number one team when they get repeatedly thrashed away.

It's a unique sport where home conditions are different from away conditions and if a team wins away that should to be appreciated even more. Ranking system needs to reflect that.

[Lannister]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

I am more balanced   

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are a Gujarathi, aren't you? No wonder you suck upto Pujara at every opportunity and this thread was created, when other posters questioned his ability to perform in overseas. 

[zen]

Just now, Lannister said:

You are a Gujarathi, aren't you? No wonder you suck upto Pujara at every opportunity and this thread was created, when other posters questioned his ability to perform in overseas. 

Have I stepped on your tail?

[Lannister]

Just now, zen said:

Have I stepped on your tail?

Yeah, when you said you are a Test fan and decided to open this ridiculous thread. 

[zen]

Just now, Lannister said:

Yeah, when you said you are a Test fan and decided to open this ridiculous thread. 

Good to know

[Lannister]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Good to know

Now, you can stop your topi drama. Everyone knows your intention. 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Now, you can stop your topi drama. Everyone knows your intention. 

Enlighten me! .... let’s have some fun

[express bowling]

56 minutes ago, zen said:

I have nothing against experimenting or planning to win. But currently we tend to rotate bowlers only 

 

I was responding to the  " choosing  5 Rahanes leading to losses at home too " part.  Most of our new batsmen are great home performers.

 

 

Quote

This discussion is more about obsession with SENA and in the process undermining our current achievements and positives. Like you would read in this thread itself - what use is #1 if we don't, what use is this if we don't and so on .... 

 

 

Most people want their team to win almost always at home ... and atleast sometimes away ... against the good teams.

 

Extremely lopsided performances never get respect.  Look at the current day Australian test team ... they have won almost all series at home but are not respected at all because of their dismal performances away, including in Asia.

 

SENA has assumed importance for us only in the 2010s decade ... as we don't play Pakistan and WI have regressed badly.

 

If we had a couple of great rivals in Asia ... those series and tours would have assumed a lot of importance too.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by express bowling

[zen]

26 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I was responding to the  " choosing  5 Rahanes leading to losses at home too " part.  Most of our new batsmen are great home performers.

 

 

 

Most people want their team to win almost always at home ... and atleast sometimes away ... against the good teams.

 

Extremely lopsided performances never get respect.  Look at the current day Australian test team ... they have won almost all series at home but are not respected at all because of their dismal performances away, including in Asia.

 

SENA has assumed importance for us only in the 2010s decade ... as we don't play Pakistan and WI have regressed badly.

 

If we had a couple of great rivals in Asia ... those series and tours would have assumed a lot of importance too.

 

 

I understand the importance .... not the obsession with it though

 

When we were not a strong side relatively speaking, we were obsessed with proving that Sachin is the best batsman in the world .... Our reporters would ask almost anyone from SENA “who is the best batsman in the world”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, zen said:

I understand the importance .... not the obsession with it though

 

 

There was a lot more obsession about defeating Pakistan, when that option was open.  The next most important win was against the WI.  People went absolutely crazy when we defeated the mighty WI twice in 1983.

 

Obsession is not a bad thing in sports ...  It is what keeps a sport popular among the masses.

 

Now the tough opponents are SA, Eng and Aus. 

[zen]

Focus will shift to WTC in July 2019 

 

Ind's schedule 

 

2019

• July: In WI (2 Tests)
• Oct: vs SA (3 Tests)
• Nov: vs BD (2 Tests)

 

2020

• Feb: In NZ (2 Tests)
• Nov: In Aus (4 Tests)

 

2021

• Jan: vs Eng (5 Tests) 
• June: Final (TBD)

 

If I had to pick b/w winning series in NZ and/or Aus in 2020 and winning WTC,  I would pick the WTC title 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by zen