Just for discussion sake who was the greatest All rounder of The fab four kapil imran

[Lurker]

I agree that Kapil had awesome power and his batting feats are grossly underachieved. He could have done so much better. It's like Srinath's bowling.

While I agree with your assertion that Kapil underachieved as a batsman, more so since with every successive year people who have actually seen him bat shall dwindle and in the end newer generation will compare based solely on stats, I will also say that it was just the way played his cricket. No inhibitions at all. I am reminded of the time Michael Holding bounced Kapil. Now bear in mind Holding is one of the fastest bowler ever, possibly fastest at the time. Kapil swivelled on one feet brought himself to that famous Natraj pose and slammed him for a six. Then when Holding came to bat he hit him right on the head with a bouncer :D:D Which other all-rounder could do that? Come to think of it of all the all-rounders only Kapil has a patented shot - Natraj six - rest of them really didnt have any stroke like that.

[bunny]

In ODIs Kapil, in tests Imran.

[King]

I'm surprised none remembers Kapil Dev's feat of 4 sixes in a row in the 1990 England series to avoid the follow on. That has to go down in the history of cricket as the most daring batting effort ever. I cannot think of Imra, Hadlee or even Botham able to think on those lines. Hadlee was the best bowler of all the four by a long mile. None of the bowlers have ever had the kind of control over swing, seam, line and length like Hadlee.

[ganeshran]

Interesting conversation this. How would the 3 top all rounders - Imran, Kapil and Botham compare with Sir Sobers?

[daryl1985]

Good recollection of some of Kapil's innings, just want to mention a couple more. In the 1983 test series in the WI he scored a faster than a run a ball hundred against Roberts, Marshall, Garner, and Holding. I don't think anyone except Gavaskar has managed that. What's more he almost did it again a couple of tests later against the same attack getting out in the 90s. Andy Flower might have ended up with a higher average than Gilchrist but there is no way he could match the sheer explosiveness and the ability to turn a match around on it's head that Gilchrist brought.

Andy Flower was technically the better batsman and he did not have the luxury of a brilliant batting line-up coming in ahead of him, nor did he have the likes of McGrath or Warne to bail him out if he failed. Not taking anything away from Gilchrist, because he was amazing but Flower was an outstanding batsman and the only world class player in his team. Sorry for going off-topic.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lurker]

Interesting conversation this. How would the 3 top all rounders - Imran, Kapil and Botham compare with Sir Sobers?

Lets answer that with a cricketing story involving Gary Sobers. In 1971 Australia played a series of Supertests against World XI which included Gary Sobers. Sobers was up against a pup Dennis Lillee who was probably at his fastest. He bounced Sobers to a point where the latter was kind of absolutely fed up. After he was dismissed in one of the innings by a short one again (off Lillee), he is supposed to have walked into Australian dressing room and told skipper Ian Chappell, with Lillee within listening distance, something to the order of - Ian, you have this fast bowler who tends to bounce, tell him when he walks to bat next time I will return the favor. Sure enough Lillee heard it and when he went out to bat, Sobers fed him a few pacy bouncers and dismissed Dennis off one of those. Now Lillee is fuming. When Sobers walks out to bat Lillee goes nuts. This is when Sobers played perhaps his greatest innings, and according to no less a player than Don Bradman, the best innings ever played in Australia, 254* None of the three modern greats could play that innings. Lets make it clear. But if one would come close who would it be? Imran? F%ck he would go out and play 254 deliveries and score 10 runs. Botham? He wasnt that pacey to bounce anyone, although as a batsman he was the one who could perhaps score 254. Kapil, to me, comes closest. For one I can see him bouncing Lillee, just as he did Michael Holding after Holding went after Kapil. For another he was the one who would take the fight to the street and would actually score that many runs at a demoralizing pace. So for whatever its worth I would say it would be Kapil. Like Sobers he was an all round cricketer, and maybe just like Sobers he was an inspiring but not the greatest of skippers. Did that help? :hysterical::hysterical:

[BeautifulGame]

Andy Flower was technically the better batsman and he did not have the luxury of a brilliant batting line-up coming in ahead of him, nor did he have the likes of McGrath or Warne to bail him out if he failed. Not taking anything away from Gilchrist, because he was amazing but Flower was an outstanding batsman and the only world class player in his team. Sorry for going off-topic.

+ 1 .100% agree with this.Andy Flower is arguably the most underrated player of his Era. Also in the last 15-20 years Flower is the best player of spin bowling to have visited India from non- Asian players IMO.

Andy Flower might have ended up with a higher average than Gilchrist but there is no way he could match the sheer explosiveness and the ability to turn a match around on it's head that Gilchrist brought.

Gilly has the best batting line of all time laying foundation most of the time he came onto bat whereas Flower had the worst batting line up of his time to put up with.Flower is comfortably the better batsmen of the 2 against both spin and fast though Gilly is the better keeper. As for explosiveness just because Dravid cant match the explosiveness of Sehwag doesnt make Sehwag better than Dravid.

[Cricket Tragic]

We need a poal. Imran for me. I think that Imran's batting was decent but not as good as his average suggests. He was a pretty solid player though and improved his batting. Kapil was a much better batsman. However, his bowling was bloody good and he was one of the better bowlers I've seen. Botham was truly awesome for a few years but his record versus WI goes against him. At his peak, he was bloody brilliant. I'm not going to include Hadlee and Akram in the list because their batting wasn't good enough. Both were ATG bowlers obviously.

[SachDan]

tbh it's not even a contest..Imran Khan is the second best all-rounder after SGF.

[Lurker]

tbh it's not even a contest..Imran Khan is the second best all-rounder after SGF.

Don't attempt, it does not come natural to you.:cheer:

[SachDan]

Don't attempt' date=' it does not come natural to you.:cheer:[/quote'] Want me to dig again your past gems on SRT? :giggle:

[Cricket Tragic]

This thread - although old - is a welcome change from the usual comparison threads on the same damn players. Please don't spoil it. Sort out personal issues by PM.

[ganeshran]

CT, How good was Botham. He has quite good stats - batting at 33 in a bowling friendly era, but bowling wise 28 is a bit high for that time. Did his stats justify his ability?

[Lurker]

Want me to dig again your past gems on SRT? :giggle:

Sure. You seem to suggest as if I ever complained about them. :haha: But please whatever you do, dont go the honesty path :giggle:

[Lurker]

We need a poal. Imran for me. I think that Imran's batting was decent but not as good as his average suggests. He was a pretty solid player though and improved his batting. Kapil was a much better batsman. However, his bowling was bloody good and he was one of the better bowlers I've seen. Botham was truly awesome for a few years but his record versus WI goes against him. At his peak, he was bloody brilliant. I'm not going to include Hadlee and Akram in the list because their batting wasn't good enough. Both were ATG bowlers obviously.

When you say "his bowling was bloody good", I am assuming you are talking of Imran here and not Kapil. Which frankly I dont have any qualms about really. My bowling compare of the 4 would be Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham. And my batting would be Botham > Kapil > Imran > Hadlee. When it comes to Imran vs Kapil comparison though, it is one a good example of how stats can completely skew up the picture. Take for instance the 1984 Rothmans Cup when India was dismissed for 125 and then came back to dismiss Pakistan for 80 odds and win the game. Imran takes 6-14, Kapil scores a brisk 30 something then comes back and knocks off 3 quick wickets and a couple of catches too. That is my rememberance of 80s. Imran doing either bowling (like 40 wickets in a series) or batting (like centuy down under). Rarely it converged.

[Cricket Tragic]

CT, How good was Botham. He has quite good stats - batting at 33 in a bowling friendly era, but bowling wise 28 is a bit high for that time. Did his stats justify his ability?

Very good at his best though he could not sustain it - pretty hard to mind you given his first few years. His ability to take wickets AND score runs at the same time was second to none. I think he took 5 wickets and scored a hundred in the same game 4-5 times, including the Mumbai test in 1980 which is something Indian fans would remember. He was a good swing bowler. Though I don't think he was an ATG bowler, he had what you'd call a 'golden arm'. He'd bowl a wide swinging half volley that the batsman could barely reach and they'd edge it behind. As a batsman, he was the best out of the lot imo.

[Lurker]

Very good at his best though he could not sustain it - pretty hard to mind you given his first few years. His ability to take wickets AND score runs at the same time was second to none. I think he took 5 wickets and scored a hundred in the same game 4-5 times' date= including the Mumbai test in 1980 which is something Indian fans would remember.He was a good swing bowler. Though I don't think he was an ATG bowler, he had what you'd call a 'golden arm'. He'd bowl a wide swinging half volley that the batsman could barely reach and they'd edge it behind. As a batsman, he was the best out of the lot imo.

Think he scored a double century and took 10 wickets or something like that. Also of the lot, although Kapil was the most complete and natural fielder, Botham was awesome in slips. In fact I have often seen him picked as one of the greatest slip fielders which is no small achievement.

[Cricket Tragic]

When you say "his bowling was bloody good"' date= I am assuming you are talking of Imran here and not Kapil. Which frankly I dont have any qualms about really. My bowling compare of the 4 would be Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham. And my batting would be Botham > Kapil > Imran > Hadlee. When it comes to Imran vs Kapil comparison though, it is one a good example of how stats can completely skew up the picture. Take for instance the 1984 Rothmans Cup when India was dismissed for 125 and then came back to dismiss Pakistan for 80 odds and win the game. Imran takes 6-14, Kapil scores a brisk 30 something then comes back and knocks off 3 quick wickets and a couple of catches too. That is my rememberance of 80s. Imran doing either bowling (like 40 wickets in a series) or batting (like centuy down under). Rarely it converged.

Yeah, I was talking about Imran. I agree with your ranking.

[Cricket Tragic]

Think he scored a double century and took 10 wickets or something like that. Also of the lot, although Kapil was the most complete and natural fielder, Botham was awesome in slips. In fact I have often seen him picked as one of the greatest slip fielders which is no small achievement.

Took 10 wickets in the game and a hundred. The double was a couple of years later at the Oval.