Just for discussion sake who was the greatest All rounder of The fab four kapil imran

[putrevus]

We just were having this discussion on weekend , who was the best all rounder of fab of 80s namely kapil , imran , botham, hadlee.I thought let us us hear from our friends also on here. Kapil and Botham in my view were better than imran and Hadlee as all rounders.Botham was indeed true match winner among all of them.Kapil had to come next Though I rate his batting ability more superior than botham. Imran and Hadlee were bowlers first then batsmen, they too a long time to cement their place in the team and still batting wise their team never depended on them.Imran developed his batting only after he has his shin injury in 1982.Hadlee was the best bowler among all of them and I rate Imran higher than hadlee because he had pace and was hostile than hadlee who was more on control swing and length and never played much in sub continent. your views

[bharat297]

Id say ... Imran Khan = the best swing bowler the best tactician Kapil Dev = the best athlete and probably the best batsman. He was also the best matchwinner IMO. Ian Botham = the most dominating and intimidating Richard Hadlee = the bowler with the most control Of the four I would say Imran Khan is the best all-rounder.

[Desi Cartman]

what about Wasim Akram :nervous: .. he wasnt bad either The best all rounders I have seen in last 10 years are Shaun pollock (Bowlwer who can bat) , Kallis (batsman who can bowl)!

[coffee_rules]

Imran Khan wins hands down. He had an average of 50+ in batting and under 25 bowling average in the later half of his career. His was the only team that defeated the WI's team in the 80s. Kapil's away average is a disappointment. He was not the same bowler post-84 after the knew surgery. Anyway, I wouldn't consider 25+ average bowlers ATG. May be KD was an India ATG.

[Mr. Wicket]

Imran Khan wins hands down. He had an average of 50+ in batting and under 25 bowling average in the later half of his career. His was the only team that defeated the WI's team in the 80s.

Not entirely true. Geoff Howarth's NZ team won in 1980 against West Indies, winning one and drawing the other 2. In the match that was won, Hadlee took 11/102 and smashed a 63 ball fifty. (While I'm not sure who the best all rounder of those 4 is and it's a very debatable topic, I'd take Hadlee in an instant as the best bowler of that lot.)

[coffee_rules]

Not entirely true. Geoff Howarth's NZ team won in 1980 against West Indies, winning one and drawing the other 2. In the match that was won, Hadlee took 11/102 and smashed a 63 ball fifty. (While I'm not sure who the best all rounder of those 4 is and it's a very debatable topic, I'd take Hadlee in an instant as the best bowler of that lot.)

I meant in WI. No other team has won in the entire decade in WI.

[fineleg]

Shaun Pollock and Kallis are too good.

[Desi Cartman]

Shaun Pollock and Kallis are too good.

Humaray vichar kitnay milte hain na ? :giggle:

[CC1981]

His was the only team that defeated the WI's team in the 80s.

False. West Indies were undefeated in a series for the longest span (in terms of years) in cricket's history, from 1979 to 1992 (or was it 1994 ? cant remember for sure). My vote would go to Imran, simply because he was a very decent, nuggety batsman who was a genuine alltime great pace bowler who could walk into any lineup without much problem. After Imran, i'd rate Kapil next, because i consider him to be a better batsman than Imran,though a lesser bowler. Whats extraordinary about Kapil is that he raised his game against the world's best- his batting and bowling records are pretty amazing for an allrounder, but his bowling average as well as batting record against the west indies were truely topclass and better than even Imrans (when both are considered). After Kapil, I'd rate Botham as the next best. That he is inferior to Imran is obvious, the reason i consider him inferior to Kapil is because while Kapil raised his game against the best(West Indies), Botham was a disaster against the West Indies, continously getting schooled in both batting and bowling. Not to mention, Botham basically had 3-4 excellent years as a bowler and from then on, it was utter mediocrity most of the time. After Botham,I'd rate Hadlee, though i consider Hadlee to be the best bowler of the four(narrowly edging out Imran)- his performance against West Indies is amazing, his performance in India is exemplary, his performances against Australia is legendary. Hadlee loses out primarily because while he was a better bowler than the rest, his batting was quite clearly not up to the par, where he was actually a lower-order slogger with the occasional decent performance rather than a bonafide allrounder expected to contribute with the bat AND ball with any regularity. So in short, here is my order (and points out of 10 for both batting/bowling): Imran : 9.0(bowling), 5.0 (batting) Kapil : 8.0(bowling), 5.5 (batting) Botham:7.5(bowling), 5.0(batting) Hadlee: 9.5(bowling), 4.0(batting)

[DomainK]

Shaun Pollock and Kallis are too good.

I think Cairns wasnt any lesser.

[Kartikey]

I'd say Imran is probably the best followed by our own Kapil Paaji.

[The Outsider]

I agree with CC's ratings, though it must be said that for a very long time in his career Imran was either a bowler who could bat or a batsman who could bowl, but taken overall he would rank as the best.

[coffee_rules]

Kapil's batting better than Imran's? On what basis? Kapil was explosive, somewhat like Sehwag. But he would never accumulate, occupy crease. Hit 4 sixes in an over, he can do. But bat out a draw, he could never. Imran for most of his career was batting like a top order bat who could bowl.

[ediamondsrt]

Botham

[The Outsider]

Kapil's batting better than Imran's? On what basis? Kapil was explosive' date=' somewhat like Sehwag. But he would never accumulate, occupy crease. Hit 4 sixes in an over, he can do. But bat out a draw, he could never. Imran for most of his career was batting like a top order bat who could bowl.[/quote'] As an impact player, Kapil was the better batsman IMO. One would be hard pressed to find 5 great knocks with Imran, with Kapil it's a simple task. As for the difference in average, Imran's batting style ensured he would remain not out on many more occasions than Kapil and also the fact that Imran had the luxury of just concentrating on his batting in the latter part of his career because the likes of Akram and Waqar were leading the attack, not to mention Qadir. Kapil had to shoulder India's bowling right till the end when he could have been more useful as a batsman who could bowl.

[Lurker]

I hate this all-rounder comparison. For two reasons: 1) There is no way the comparison can be achieved with any degree of certainty, definitely not on a message board where 75% are too cynical to write anymore than a line or two on the subject. 2) Because half of the people who make any inputs on the subject have NEVER seen the players in action, would quickly go to CI compare the stats and voila become an "expert". Rant over. Here is my stance. I grew up watching this fab 4 in action. I am speaking of course of early to mid 80s. In those days there was no cricket magazine of note, except Sportstar and Sportsworld, cable TV had not reached India(heck TV had not reached India) and internet had not even been dreamt of. So maniac cricket fans like me would do what they do - maintain a copy(now they call it notebook) with stats updated after every game to compare your favorite players. While this may not make me the best expert on the subject it does put me in a position to make my judgements on actual events and not depend on others. So where do the 4 stand? First of all lets take away Richard Hadlee. He was no different to Wasim Akram in the sense he could bat at times but not as often as an all-rounder should. Bowling wise he was the best of the 4. Next I will also take away Ian Botham. For three reasons: 1) At his peak he might have been the best of the 4 but his peak did not last long. 2) His performance against the best team of its time West Indies is lousy. 3) As a bowler his performance is highly exaggerated. Botham had a knack of picking wickets with rank bad deliveries, long hops etc, and hence even though he has 350 plus wickets he is not gonna make my list of top 25 bowlers. Which basically boils down the comparison to Imran vs Kapil. Now depending on whether you are Indian or pakistani the answer may be different. However a few facts stand the test of time: 1) Kapil was all-rounder in the truest sense. He could bat, bowl and field. Imran, while he ended with brilliant figures, doesnt fit the bill. When he batted well(towards the end of his career) he had stopped bowling, when he bowled well he didnt bat as good. Plus he was a lousy fielder, worst of the four. 2) Kapil can pick 9-83 and also score 175*(highest score in LOI at the time) and run 30 yards to pick the greatest catch in a World Cup final, Imran could do none of this. 3) Kapil would be the ONLY bet if a team of all-time XI was picked, a team that would satisfy the bill for Test, LOI & 20/20. The man's batting in LOI was out of this world, much ahead of its time(a solid 20 plus strike rate ahead of the rest), and he remains one of the most economical bowlers ever, not to mention the fielders. 4) While Imran was a better skipper overall his finest moment came a solid 10 years after what Kapil has already achieved - World cup victory. And he did so against the mightiest team of its time. I can write more but I have a feeling the reader might already be bored by now. xxxx

[coffee_rules]

As an impact player' date=' Kapil was the better batsman IMO. One would be hard pressed to find 5 great knocks with Imran, with Kapil it's a simple task. As for the difference in average, Imran's batting style ensured he would remain not out on many more occasions than Kapil and also the fact that Imran had the luxury of just concentrating on his batting in the latter part of his career because the likes of Akram and Waqar were leading the attack, not to mention Qadir. Kapil had to shoulder India's bowling right till the end when he could have been more useful as a batsman who could bowl.[/quote'] Depends on what you consider as contribution. A few wham-bham shot innings or some meaningful scores towards the team score. Kapil couldn't be relied on. If he batted it was bonus, if not, it's the other batsmens' fault.

[Lurker]

Depends on what you consider as contribution. A few wham-bham shot innings or some meaningful scores towards the team score. Kapil couldn't be relied on. If he batted it was bonus' date=' if not, it's the other batsmens' fault.[/quote'] I think you are confusing consistency with match-winning abilities. Imran was a dogged batsman who realized his limitations and played within it. However you would be hard-pressed to find a few innings of note. Kapil on the other hand had knack of playing the innings when chips were down. I am really surprised how you say "if he didnt score it was other batsmen's fault". Nothing could be further from truth. Even his colleague, and a bitter critic at the time, Sunil Gavaskar conceded "My understanding of Kapil was that if India really needed the runs he would get them". And get them he did. From top of my head: 175* against Zimbabwe in 83 which saved Indian ar$e or we would have been knocked out. Century in tied test at Chennai that effectively made the match what it was. Century in South Africa against Donald at his most fierce when all other batsmen had folded. Indeed Donald would concede after the game "No one has ever hit my delivery with such force". And this came within a year of Kapil retiring from the game. Kapil's batting in England in early 80s in the now famous - Battle of all-rounder era. Twice Kapil came close to breaking all-time fastest century record(97 in some 60 odd balls) making the greatest all-rounder Sobers wonder - Why does Kapil doesnt have the fastest century of all times? Kapil's batting in 1985 WSC semis against NZ which effectively won India the game after Indian batting had slowed down and asking run rate had climbed tp around 9 runs an over(quite high back then). This included an over from Hadlee when Kapil spanked 4 fours. Kapil's century in WI when India defeated WI for first time in LOI, also the first loss for WI in shorter format of game at home. Etc etc. To use an analogy Imran would be Rajendra Kumar, the Jubilee star of Hindi cinema, but since when did Rajendra Kumar compare with Amitabh :D:D

[The Outsider]

Good recollection of some of Kapil's innings, just want to mention a couple more. In the 1983 test series in the WI he scored a faster than a run a ball hundred against Roberts, Marshall, Garner, and Holding. I don't think anyone except Gavaskar has managed that. What's more he almost did it again a couple of tests later against the same attack getting out in the 90s. Andy Flower might have ended up with a higher average than Gilchrist but there is no way he could match the sheer explosiveness and the ability to turn a match around on it's head that Gilchrist brought.

[coffee_rules]

I agree that Kapil had awesome power and his batting feats are grossly underachieved. He could have done so much better. It's like Srinath's bowling.