Tendulkar's batting exploits while chasing a big total in 2nd Inn

[beetle]

Finey taking on the sachin mullahs!........:D

[Rajan]

Sure' date=' just like we saw the big picture in the '92, '99 and '07 WCs. Yeah, if it's a picture like Sholay, it's worth watching it yet again.[/quote'] He had never opened till 1992 world cup, so there is no point in ntelling about it. In 1999,Ganguly and Dravid did well at the top of the order,but Tendulkar did not have a great series.so, it would not matter whether he opened or not. 2007, he struggled against Bangladesh before being outsmarted by the leftie, Razaaq i think. Against Lanka, i think Fernando made him look very ordinary.it was his form more than the slot he batted. so, do u think he would have won us these world cups if he had opened? i stand by my reasoning- India can do better when he bats in the middle order when chasing.i am all for SRT to open when indioa sets the target. I am not a sachin basher at all, i switch off TV when he gets out.it takes me time to recover to switch on the set again.but I feel it is in the team's interest if he bats in the middle order when we chase. i have given my reasons. Thanks.

[fineleg]

Finey taking on the sachin mullahs!........:D

Phew!!! Tell me abt it beets, Taking them on is certainly a very difficult job at ICF :D Not for the faint hearted!

[fineleg]

To respond to one of shwetabhs point "SRT does not read ICF, so he is not going to read your criticism or advice anyway", if that is the criteria to post on ICF, then pretty much many others' posts are a waste anyway. Bhajji should not play in Test/odi or MSD shud select this guy over that guy, or VS should open in Test or whatever...as though any of these players or selectors read ICF and make the decision... It is our opinion and advice, and people post them here irrespective of players not reading it. It is just to express it, not for players to read it! So, saying that players dont read ICF, is a moot point. It is NEVER my aim that SRT will read ICF and therefore implement or even get to read what I say. I write what I feel he should do, just like many others write what this player or that player or captain or selectors should do. A post on the internet is all it is.

[suraj]

Finey taking on the sachin mullahs!........:D

yeah and I thot Gangulians were bad :giggle:

[Anakin]

Finey taking on the sachin mullahs!........:D

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: BTW some people are not familiar with closet worshipper concept

[siddhu]

To respond to one of shwetabhs point "SRT does not read ICF, so he is not going to read your criticism or advice anyway", if that is the criteria to post on ICF, then pretty much many others' posts are a waste anyway. Bhajji should not play in Test/odi or MSD shud select this guy over that guy, or VS should open in Test or whatever...as though any of these players or selectors read ICF and make the decision... It is our opinion and advice, and people post them here irrespective of players not reading it. It is just to express it, not for players to read it! So, saying that players dont read ICF, is a moot point. It is NEVER my aim that SRT will read ICF and therefore implement or even get to read what I say. I write what I feel he should do, just like many others write what this player or that player or captain or selectors should do. A post on the internet is all it is.

My 2 cents, We live in an individualistic society or for some (at least like me and shwetabh in US- who i know works as a researcher in US) we don't have anybody around to express our joy and share common interest that is cricket. So we come over here to express that and maybe some discussion. I agree with you to some extent that players sometimes do deserve the criticism but not all the time. Nobody likes to read a thread about one particular player not doing well if we have been winning majority of matches. Just enjoy cricket. And, all Shwetabh and others are pointing out is, all this negativity is bringing others down too... Thanks,

[The Outsider]

To respond to one of shwetabhs point "SRT does not read ICF, so he is not going to read your criticism or advice anyway", if that is the criteria to post on ICF, then pretty much many others' posts are a waste anyway.

Then what is the point behind being mainly negative/critical of him, as you have admitted you do in your quest to make India the #1 team. I really don't see how your mainly critical posts are going to help India do that. Moreover, as I asked previously how does someone like Dravid escape your critical radar whose test form has been mediocre for more than a year now?

It is NEVER my aim that SRT will read ICF and therefore implement or even get to read what I say. I write what I feel he should do, just like many others write what this player or that player or captain or selectors should do. A post on the internet is all it is.

The difference is that the majority of your posts on Tendulkar are lopsided in criticism, which you are trying to justify by pulling a red herring about the praise he receives and also not based on a lot of cricketing facts, as people have pointed out previously on numerous occasions. Anyhow, whatever floats your boat.

[umpire]

finey is angry because Sachin rejected him and got married to Anjali.

[The Outsider]

In 1999,Ganguly and Dravid did well at the top of the order,but Tendulkar did not have a great series.so, it would not matter whether he opened or not.

Why do you say it would not have mattered?

2007, he struggled against Bangladesh before being outsmarted by the leftie, Razaaq i think. Against Lanka, i think Fernando made him look very ordinary.it was his form more than the slot he batted.

And things might have been different if he had opened. It's pretty straightforward as I see it - Tendulkar is the best batsman in ODI history and the majority of his accomplishments have come as an opener, the Indian team does not have any candidate in the sights who would be expected to do a better job at opening. It's natural that Tendulkar should open. All these theories about middle order stability, rotating strike in middle overs etc. have been around for many years now. They have never worked in practice. Tendulkar's best comes at the top of the order.

[Holysmoke]

finey o finey..:cantstop:

[Predator_05]

Whiney -->

[suraj]

Whiney -->

where's the pic??

[udaydewan]

Tendulkars ODI average when batting second is 42 which is the same as that of Lara's second innings average. Need I say more!

[udaydewan]

For Tendulkar’s critics who think he has not done much! [B]For Tendulkar’s critics who think he has not done much! This article is for those critics who continue to question Tendulkar’s contribution to the Indian Team. These critics question that Tendulkar does not perform against fast bowlers and on the fast pitches. So lets look at Tendulkars performance in Australia and South Africa. Tendulkar scored the most runs for India in the Australian 1991/92, 1999/2000 and 2007/08 Test series. Tendulkar also scored the most runs for India in the South African 1992/93 and the 2001/02 test series. These facts without doubt show that Tendulkar is great even against fast bowling. These critics say that Tendulkar has not performed well in overseas wins for India. The fact is that Tendulkar has made huge and crucial contributions in five of India’s big wins. These are the facts: Win in West Indies 2002 : Tendulkar made a century. Win in England 2002: Tendulakar made 193 which was the highest score by an Indian Win in Multan,Pakistan 2004: Tendulkar made 194 n.o. Win in England 2007: Tendulkar made crucial 91 Win in Perth 2008.: Tendulkar made crucial 71 This clearly shows that Tendulkar has played big part in India’s overseas wins. These critics say that Tendulkar does not perform in the pressure situations. The fact is that Tendulkar is the highest run getter in 1996 and 2003 world cups during which pressure to perform is very high. These critics say that some of his high scores in the world cup have come against weak teams. But they forget that India lost its match against Zimbabwe in the 1999 world cup when Tendulkar could not play; that India lost its match against Bangladesh when he scored 0 in the 2007 world cup. This shows that Tendulkar’s high scores have shielded India from the weaker teams in the world cups. Otherwise India could have ended up all their world cup campaigns like the disastrous 2007 world cup. These critics say that Tendulkar is not a great batsman. The fact is that Mcgrath and Shane Warne have rated him as the best batsman they have played against. Don Bradman had commented that Tendulkar bats like him. And there is a lot more that Tendulakar has achieved. The fact is after so much Tendulkar has done for India these critics are still unhappy with his performances. And you know why?. Because these critics want Tendulkar to do everything . So here is a suggestion for these critics: Wake Up!

[Keep-It-Cool]

SRT is a great batsman - both in ODIs and Tests. However, it is also a fact that over the last 50 ODIs or so, his average batting second is around 50% of his average batting first. Neither has this been a recent occurance. He has consistently been averaging far lower while chasing than while batting first. Forget large scores, low scores, batting position etc etc. Read as Cuml Average, Batting First, Batting Second Since 2008 25.7 22.8 Since 2007 58.4 32.0 Since 2006 63.9 29.9 Since 2005 55.7 28.5 Since 2004 48.7 33.0 Since 2003 51.2 34.0 Since 2002 54.1 35.5 Since 2001 54.0 38.5 I really would love to understand how he manages this. Clearly, it cannot be form or injury because he has been doing well in the first innings right through. The numbers do show that it has been a struggle in recent years in the second innings. Fineleg may be very vocal and aggressive about it but I am surprised that hardly anyone finds any problem in these numbers. Or anything worth discussing about. For whatever reason - and I have no clue what it could be - SRT seems to have a big problem while chasing in recent years, the odd good score notwithstanding. Does this mean that I will drop him from the side? Obviously not. His recent lean phase has not been a very long one. Also, teams do not always bat second and his record batting first is probably the best in the world. However, I would definitely give some thought to the idea of playing him down the order if India bats second. At least, it is definitely not something that has to be scoffed at or put down as sheer negativity / stupidity / whatever. It is worth mentioning here that this may not really help. Sadly, he is far worse when he is not opening in matches where India bats second. Over this same period, he has averaged 20.5 in 16 matches. Will he improve if he does it on a far more regular basis rather than in an ad-hoc manner as has happened in the past? I dont know! India may also struggle to get some other opener who averages even 30 in the second innings. However, shouldn't this be given a thought at all, given that a) we are not really losing much at the top anyway; b) it just may - however remote the probability - do the trick w.r.t. his batting? For all we know, after all this discussion, SRT may come up with a blinding hundred in a successful 300+ run chase in the CB series finals. Better still, he may come up with two of them. However, as things stand today, it would take a very brave man to put money on that. I so look forward to being proven wrong over the next week.

[suraj]

SRT is a great batsman - both in ODIs and Tests. However, it is also a fact that over the last 50 ODIs or so, his average batting second is around 50% of his average batting first. Neither has this been a recent occurance. He has consistently been averaging far lower while chasing than while batting first. Forget large scores, low scores, batting position etc etc. Read as Cuml Average, Batting First, Batting Second Since 2008 25.7 22.8 Since 2007 58.4 32.0 Since 2006 63.9 29.9 Since 2005 55.7 28.5 Since 2004 48.7 33.0 Since 2003 51.2 34.0 Since 2002 54.1 35.5 Since 2001 54.0 38.5 I really would love to understand how he manages this. Clearly, it cannot be form or injury because he has been doing well in the first innings right through. The numbers do show that it has been a struggle in recent years in the second innings. Fineleg may be very vocal and aggressive about it but I am surprised that hardly anyone finds any problem in these numbers. Or anything worth discussing about. For whatever reason - and I have no clue what it could be - SRT seems to have a big problem while chasing in recent years, the odd good score notwithstanding. Does this mean that I will drop him from the side? Obviously not. His recent lean phase has not been a very long one. Also, teams do not always bat second and his record batting first is probably the best in the world. However, I would definitely give some thought to the idea of playing him down the order if India bats second. At least, it is definitely not something that has to be scoffed at or put down as sheer negativity / stupidity / whatever. It is worth mentioning here that this may not really help. Sadly, he is far worse when he is not opening in matches where India bats second. Over this same period, he has averaged 20.5 in 16 matches. Will he improve if he does it on a far more regular basis rather than in an ad-hoc manner as has happened in the past? I dont know! India may also struggle to get some other opener who averages even 30 in the second innings. However, shouldn't this be given a thought at all, given that a) we are not really losing much at the top anyway; b) it just may - however remote the probability - do the trick w.r.t. his batting? For all we know, after all this discussion, SRT may come up with a blinding hundred in a successful 300+ run chase in the CB series finals. Better still, he may come up with two of them. However, as things stand today, it would take a very brave man to put money on that. I so look forward to being proven wrong over the next week.

Great post K-I-C for anyone who can admire a player and still be able to see the facts as they are:two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up: Unfortunately those folks are few and far between- you either have fanatics who will put you down for even saying a word against SRT or there are SRT haters who will say everything that Tendlya does is wrong. I do wish that before retirement SRT comes up with some blazing knocks while chasing so that all this can be forgotten about his career!

[fineleg]

SRT is a great batsman - both in ODIs and Tests. However, it is also a fact that over the last 50 ODIs or so, his average batting second is around 50% of his average batting first. Neither has this been a recent occurance. He has consistently been averaging far lower while chasing than while batting first. Forget large scores, low scores, batting position etc etc. Read as Cuml Average, Batting First, Batting Second Since 2008 25.7 22.8 Since 2007 58.4 32.0 Since 2006 63.9 29.9 Since 2005 55.7 28.5 Since 2004 48.7 33.0 Since 2003 51.2 34.0 Since 2002 54.1 35.5 Since 2001 54.0 38.5 I really would love to understand how he manages this. Clearly, it cannot be form or injury because he has been doing well in the first innings right through. The numbers do show that it has been a struggle in recent years in the second innings. Fineleg may be very vocal and aggressive about it but I am surprised that hardly anyone finds any problem in these numbers. Or anything worth discussing about. For whatever reason - and I have no clue what it could be - SRT seems to have a big problem while chasing in recent years, the odd good score notwithstanding. Does this mean that I will drop him from the side? Obviously not. His recent lean phase has not been a very long one. Also, teams do not always bat second and his record batting first is probably the best in the world. However, I would definitely give some thought to the idea of playing him down the order if India bats second. At least, it is definitely not something that has to be scoffed at or put down as sheer negativity / stupidity / whatever. It is worth mentioning here that this may not really help. Sadly, he is far worse when he is not opening in matches where India bats second. Over this same period, he has averaged 20.5 in 16 matches. Will he improve if he does it on a far more regular basis rather than in an ad-hoc manner as has happened in the past? I dont know! India may also struggle to get some other opener who averages even 30 in the second innings. However, shouldn't this be given a thought at all, given that a) we are not really losing much at the top anyway; b) it just may - however remote the probability - do the trick w.r.t. his batting? For all we know, after all this discussion, SRT may come up with a blinding hundred in a successful 300+ run chase in the CB series finals. Better still, he may come up with two of them. However, as things stand today, it would take a very brave man to put money on that. I so look forward to being proven wrong over the next week.

Excellent post, K-I-C! I may be over the top, in some of my posts, but that alone is probably not the reason why no one is seeing the point. People find it easy to dismiss a post without numbers and a whole bunch of research done, but now you have provided the numbers and have provided the research/analysis people are asking for. Lets see if it makes any difference to the "objective" fans.

[kumble_rocks]

Lets see if it makes any difference to the "objective" fans.

Lady ...you yourself are hardly "objective " .

[Gambit]

People find it easy to dismiss a post without numbers, but now you have provided the numbers. Lets see if it makes any difference to the "objective" fans.

Hilariously ironic :hysterical: Varun, myself and others provided you with numbers on 275+ run chases(which you asked for in your OP) and you conveniently side stepped that. Ms. "Objective" indeed