Sachin's 42nd hundred celebration!

[CC1981]

WHY is it that so called "Sachin fans"' date=' are unable to refute big facts about Sachin's career.....while at the same time its possible to accept Sachin's lesser level of performances in some limited overs conditions, and still at the same time enjoy and celebrate the undoubted class of Tendulkar in both forms of the game ?[/quote'] This has got nothing to do with so-called 'Sachin fans' failing to appreciate your point by being fanatics- this has everything to do with the fact that YOU DO NOT HAVE A POINT! You can't accuse me of being a 'Sachin worshipper' and i have criticized him several times in the past- unlike you, it was based on reason, not some quackpot stats-quoting with no relevance or relative scale. That you say Tendulkar hasn't scored an ODI ton in New Zealand or West Indies or Australia is irrelevant, fact is, Tendulkar has scored tons in EVERY CONDITION imaginable, against every opposition and against the best of bowlers his generation had to offer. You made a claim that "tendulkar doesnt show up in crunch matches and i don't need any stats to prove this", which was subsequetly blown outta water as nothing more than a myth. The point is, Sachin's performance and resume in ODIs is unparalleled by anyone save perhaps one Viv Richards. Lara, Ponting, etc. ALL fall categorically short and not to mention that Tendy has faced better attacks than these two over his entire career. Now, i suggest you eat some crow and be done with that instead of persisting with the verbal diarrea you are spewing all over the place.

[Chandan]

It is rather easy to explain really(just that I am not too sure if blind fans will understand). When Sachin was at the peak of his prowess(90s) and India kept losing all around it was NOT because of Sachin' date= similarly today if India is beating every country it is also NOT because of Sachin. It is rather simple dont overanalyze it. And great to see Young India do what the Buddha Brigade has been trying to achieve since 1990 :giggle:

Even that is not the point, Lurker! Just take out Sachin's unbeaten 117 in the first final and 91 in the second final, and then tell me how India could have won!!:wink_smile:

[putrevus]

Indian selectors can say all they want about youth and all won the cup.But the one reason why India won the cup was Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar, if he didnt show up in final India is coming home with Nada.This one man was the difference between India and Australia. one more thing helped in Dhoni was not superstitious like what Ganguly was in 2003 world cup where in he same 11 players in all matches refusing to change players according to pitch conditions.

[DomainK]

From the stone age to the modern day, Tendulkar has been the backbone of Indian cricket. Earlier Indian lost more matches as the rest of the team was no good....now we have other players who can throw in their bits and contribute to victory. That is the only difference.

[Guest HariSampath]

Because you have not been able to bring forth a single candidate who would be considered a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar.

Sir Vivian Richards. Higher carrier ODI average than Sachin. SR of 90+ , higher than Sachin and achieved in an era of no 30 yard circles and field restrictions. Higher average in games won, 56...and also in games won outside Windies ( 57 in 75 games won outside Windies) Higher average in Australia ( 56 ), Higher average in NZ ( 119), Higher average in England ( 78) and higher average than Sachin even in India ( 49.70). Higher average in games batting second, higher average in games outside home, 9 out of 11 100s outside Windies. Compare all this to Sachin, and also take into account the fact Richards had to bat alongside Greenidge, Haynes, Lloyd, et al , he had to share opportunities with them, and like Sachin he did not bat opening all his career with 30 yard lines and field restrictions. Moreover he played between 1975 and 1989 , in an era of the Imrans, Lillees, Thomsons, Hadlees, Kapils, Bothams and Willis. Any day, any opposition, any conditions, Vivian Richards can be counted on to simply destroy any bowling in an ODI, and he was easily the MOST FEARED batsmen of all times...I dont think anyone really fears Sachin to slaughter high quality attack in opponent's home conditions. The stats I have quoted for his ODI record in FIVE countries are very relevant. When you have a player like Sachin who has amassed 16,000 runs and 42 100s, you naturally examine how he has done at home as well as overseas, and there is a huge , glaring disparity here. Sachin averages between 25 and 39 in 6 test playing countries ( when playing ODIs there ), and also has scored just ONE matchwinning hundred in total when his record against 5 countries is combined. This becomes relevant when you consider that pitches in NZ and England assist seam and swing, and pitches in Aus and SAF assist pace and bounce. If Sachin has performed below par in 5 major cricket nations over 17 years, it is certainly a point to be considered and not brushed under the carpet.

[CC1981]

Sir Vivian Richards. Higher carrier ODI average than Sachin. SR of 90+ , higher than Sachin and achieved in an era of no 30 yard circles and field restrictions. Higher average in games won, 56...and also in games won outside Windies ( 57 in 75 games won outside Windies) Higher average in Australia ( 56 ), Higher average in NZ ( 119), Higher average in England ( 78) and higher average than Sachin even in India ( 49.70). Higher average in games batting second, higher average in games outside home, 9 out of 11 100s outside Windies. Compare all this to Sachin, and also take into account the fact Richards had to bat alongside Greenidge, Haynes, Lloyd, et al , he had to share opportunities with them, and like Sachin he did not bat opening all his career with 30 yard lines and field restrictions. Moreover he played between 1975 and 1989 , in an era of the Imrans, Lillees, Thomsons, Hadlees, Kapils, Bothams and Willis. Any day, any opposition, any conditions, Vivian Richards can be counted on to simply destroy any bowling in an ODI, and he was easily the MOST FEARED batsmen of all times...I dont think anyone really fears Sachin to slaughter high quality attack in opponent's home conditions.

LOL! Thank you for underscoring how weak your criticism of Tendulkar is- to find someone who compares to him, you raised IVA Richards to the argument- who, it is commonly known, is along with Tendulkar, the greatest ODI bat the world has ever seen. This is a bit like saying 'yes, there is a batsman better than XYZ! his name is Bradman' or ' yes, there is a better allrounder than XYZ- its Sobers!'. That you are raising comparison with another batsman who has claims to being the best ever ODI bat, shows how silly your criticism has been and how far you've had to reach to try and justify your rather illogical/shortsighted claims regarding Tendulkar. And don't forget, there are holes in Viv's resume too- Viv rarely played in triangular series and Viv almost NEVER batted under the same pressure as Tendulkar- Viv scoring a duck had little or no impact on the win/loss of West Indies of that era, Tendulkar scoring a duck means India is immediately more likely to lose the match than not. Not to mention, given the amazing attack WI had back then, Viv didn't have to stretch too hard to keep up with the asking rate- its certainly easier to go hammer and tongs on the opposition day in,day out when you realize that your contribution is not that critical to the team's fortunes ( several other greats around) and that you are either rarely facing an asking rate of over 5 an over or that if your team total is over 5rpo for the other team, you've effectively won already. Not to mention, Viv played in less than HALF the ODIs Tendulkar did and Tendulkar's experience is a lot more varied. All in all, while Richards himself presents a very good case of being #1 alltime ODI bat, it is far from being decieded. As for the bowling faced by Sachin, sorry but Sachin's faced more quality bowlers in his time than Viv has and that is a fact. Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Pollock,Donald, Wasim,Waqar, Saqlain(who used to be a demon in ODIs), Warne, McGrath, Lee, Akhtar, Bond, Cairns, Gough, Caddick,Hoggard, Flintoff, Murali, Vaas, etc. Who are the bowlers in that callibre that Viv faced with any regularity ? most decent spinners retired within the first fwe years of VIv's career and only Qadir was around for most of Viv's career to present him a challenge in spin department. In pace, its Imran,Hadlee,Kapil,Botham,Lillee, Thommo and Bob Willis.... Its easy to see who's faced better attacks over the time, really.

The stats I have quoted for his ODI record in FIVE countries are very relevant. When you have a player like Sachin who has amassed 16,000 runs and 42 100s, you naturally examine how he has done at home as well as overseas, and there is a huge , glaring disparity here. Sachin averages between 25 and 39 in 6 test playing countries ( when playing ODIs there ), and also has scored just ONE matchwinning hundred in total when his record against 5 countries is combined. This becomes relevant when you consider that pitches in NZ and England assist seam and swing, and pitches in Aus and SAF assist pace and bounce. If Sachin has performed below par in 5 major cricket nations over 17 years, it is certainly a point to be considered and not brushed under the carpet.

The stats you've quoted for his ODI record in FIVE countries are irrelevant. For one, home/away stats in ODIs mean diddly squat. Neutral ground stats matter a lot too, since often there are ODI triangulars for which neutral ground stats are indicative of how you've done against the whole opposition. For two, as i said, FIND me someone who is playing today, that has better record than Sachin overseas or in those 'five countries' as you call it. Find me how many matchwinning 100s they've scored. Your refusal to provide the relative scale to other batsmen in itself is indicative of how weak your argument is, really. The only point to consider at this moment, is if you really understand the nuances of cricket and the far more contextual impression that cricket demands from any conoisseur. I think not.

[Mr. Wicket]

bump :notsmiley:

[zubinpepsi]

no wonder Lurker doesnt in cricket talk anymore.. :giggle:

[Sachinism]

Man that CC1981 could really type

[kabira]

by any chance, Patriot = Hari Sampath?

[kabira]

Man that CC1981 could really hype

[Anakin]

I forgot who, but someone described CC1981's posts very apty as verbal diarrhea :haha::haha:

[Holysmoke]

Exactly. In the grand scheme of things, the knock doesn't change anything. Even if Tendulkar had gotten out for a duck, it wouldn't make a difference. He has reached a stage in his career where even if he makes zeros for the next year, he would still be the greatest batsman India has ever produced. The true cricket enthusiasts who know what they are talking about will always appreciate his efforts (he has plenty to show for in the 2nd innings), and the whiners and p akis will b itch, moan and whine about him no matter how many runs he scores. I'll bet when he gets out for 12 in the next final, he will be sh it again. My point - retarded critics are incurable and class doesn't diminish, even after 20 years.

Best. Post. Ever.

[King Tendulkar]

For real embarrasing posts one should bump threads about Sachin from 2007 and 2006. A lot of posters here would dread that:giggle: