Comparison of great specialist cricketers with great all-rounders

[Muloghonto]

6 hours ago, Khota said:

No running away. Explain your concept of slow ===== more strategy. Fast ======= Dumb

The explanation requires you answering the question asked of you. Stop running away from a simple question. 

6 hours ago, Khota said:

 

Now I have simplified it to a mathematical equation.

The simplification still requires you to answer the question asked of you. Why are you running away from a question asked of you first ?? 

[gazza]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:49 PM, Muloghonto said:

Yep. And in all time lists, other factors come into play. Who are they playing against ? Is it all time Xi-A bc Xi-b ? If so, I am picking Saha over Gillchrist as my keeper. Simply due to the logic that a batting lineup of Gavaskar, Segway, Bradman, Tendy, Lara and Sobers doesn’t need a Gilly as a batter: they are either gonna score enough runs or if a bowler blows up this batting lineup, he will get Gilly super cheap 9 outta 10 times. But against another ATG batting lineup, every sliver of greater catching ability counts. 

Saha over gilly? Sorry gilly as a keeper is at least as good as Saha, the batting is a bonus. Take a Healy (slightly better than gilly as a keeper), or a Knott that would make sense.

 

gilly is very underrated as a keeper, he might not have been the best of all time but as I said above Healy was only a bit better and Healy is pretty much on par with the best of all time, he’d have to be in that group. 

 

Also how will they get gilly out cheap 9 out of 10 times? He averages close to 50 and in fact averaged well over 50 (close to 60  if memory is correct) for a fair whack of his test career. But in any event a batsman of Gilly’s quality is going to make runs more than he isn’t, even against an all time attack.

Edited October 31, 2019 by gazza

[abc]

On 10/31/2019 at 10:31 AM, gazza said:

Saha over gilly? Sorry gilly as a keeper is at least as good as Saha, the batting is a bonus. Take a Healy (slightly better than gilly as a keeper), or a Knott that would make sense.

 

gilly is very underrated as a keeper, he might not have been the best of all time but as I said above Healy was only a bit better and Healy is pretty much on par with the best of all time, he’d have to be in that group.

No (to both).

Gilchrist is a level below Healy, and Healy is a level below James Foster, which is where I would put Saha at the moment.

Edit: Due to wording, it might appear I am putting Saha below Foster and on par with Healy. I meant to put Saha on par with Foster. However, having reviewed footage of Foster's wicketkeeping, I believe Saha is (at the moment at least) somewhere between Foster and Healy.

Edited November 1, 2019 by abc

[gazza]

1 hour ago, abc said:

No (to both).

Gilchrist is a level below Healy, and Healy is a level below James Foster, which is where I would put Saha at the moment.

If Saha was really that good of a keeper then there would be a lot more talk about him, Healy is at least talked about as a quality keeper, when does saha’s Name come up in the conversation? It doesn’t. It’s actually a joke how underrated Gilly is as a keeper just because he was an exceptional batsman. people talk of Gilly as if he was a poor keeper or just decent when he in fact he was also an exceptional keeper.

 

The other thing is people rate keepers on technique a lot, well I’d say it’s not about the technique but about the job getting done, you wouldn’t teach Steve Smith’s technique but he gets the job well and truly done, just because a keeper looks more pretty or more technically proper or perfect than another doesn’t mean they are a better keeper, there are plenty of batsmen who have great technique but don’t cut the mustard.

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

The explanation requires you answering the question asked of you. Stop running away from a simple question. 

The simplification still requires you to answer the question asked of you. Why are you running away from a question asked of you first ?? 

You need to explain your basis of the statement. Too bad you don't have one.

[Muloghonto]

17 hours ago, Khota said:

You need to explain your basis of the statement. Too bad you don't have one.

The basis of the statement is contained in the answer to the question asked of you. If you stopped dodging a simple question, which is necessary for the answer, the convo can move forward. So why are you wasting days instead of answering the question asked of you first ? Why so scared to answer a question ?? 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

20 hours ago, gazza said:

Saha over gilly? Sorry gilly as a keeper is at least as good as Saha, the batting is a bonus. Take a Healy (slightly better than gilly as a keeper), or a Knott that would make sense.

I have seen Knott. Gilly is good but Saha is way , way better against spin especially. 

20 hours ago, gazza said:

 

gilly is very underrated as a keeper, he might not have been the best of all time but as I said above Healy was only a bit better and Healy is pretty much on par with the best of all time, he’d have to be in that group. 

There are plenty like in Healy’s class: More, Taylor, Saha, bari, Mongolian, etc. I’d say Gilly is definitely a good keeper, pure glove work wise but not Great. He is a bit overrated because of his high catch ratios IMO.

20 hours ago, gazza said:

Also how will they get gilly out cheap 9 out of 10 times? He averages close to 50 and in fact averaged well over 50 (close to 60  if memory is correct) for a fair whack of his test career. But in any event a batsman of Gilly’s quality is going to make runs more than he isn’t, even against an all time attack.

Because averaging 50 at 7 is not as hard as a regular batsman, when you come behind the best top six in the world and an ATG one, while having the best bowling lineup too. Besides, Gilly is an excellent batsman but he isn’t ATG category by a long, long margin, especially due to his weakness vs spin on crumblers. My point is, if a bowler is gonna blow up a batting lineup of those above him, chances are, 9 times  out of 10 he will get Gilly for cheep too.

[abc]

22 hours ago, gazza said:

If Saha was really that good of a keeper then there would be a lot more talk about him, Healy is at least talked about as a quality keeper, when does saha’s Name come up in the conversation? It doesn’t.

That depends on who is having the conversation.

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

The basis of the statement is contained in the answer to the question asked of you. If you stopped dodging a simple question, which is necessary for the answer, the convo can move forward. So why are you wasting days instead of answering the question asked of you first ? Why so scared to answer a question ?? 

Still no answer.Why do you have more strategy when you sit on your behind than running. Please explain oe forever keep your mouth shut.

[Muloghonto]

7 hours ago, Khota said:

Still no answer.Why do you have more strategy when you sit on your behind than running. Please explain oe forever keep your mouth shut.

I have already explained that the answer to your question lies in answering my query first. Still no answer. I asked first and you are stalling for a week. Answer the question asked of you first or forever keep your mouth shut for being exposed of ignorance. 

[Muloghonto]

8 hours ago, abc said:

That depends on who is having the conversation.

It’s because Healey played 100+ tests and Saha won’t play 75 and may not even get to 50.

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I have already explained that the answer to your question lies in answering my query first. Still no answer. I asked first and you are stalling for a week. Answer the question asked of you first or forever keep your mouth shut for being exposed of ignorance. 

I am getting tired of your shenanigans. As they say delay is form of denial. You don't have an answer. I will still give you a week and no more.

[Muloghonto]

15 minutes ago, Khota said:

I am getting tired of your shenanigans. As they say delay is form of denial. You don't have an answer. I will still give you a week and no more.

The only shenanigans is done by you who is refusing to answer a basic question which is relevant to the answer, which is the first un-answered question in this thread. As they say, delay is a form of denial and we can all see it’s YOU who is running away from answering a question. 

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

The only shenanigans is done by you who is refusing to answer a basic question which is relevant to the answer, which is the first un-answered question in this thread. As they say, delay is a form of denial and we can all see it’s YOU who is running away from answering a question. 

Quit shouting. Putting things in bold is disrespectful and rude. Either you have the answer or you don't. Seems like you don't. Time to move on.

[Rightarmfast]

Can we all agree to disagree? @Muloghonto @Khota

[Muloghonto]

6 hours ago, Khota said:

Quit shouting. Putting things in bold is disrespectful and rude. Either you have the answer or you don't. Seems like you don't. Time to move on.

I have the answer, which is contingent of you providing the answer to the question asked of you. I am putting it in bold because it’s YOU who is stalling and isn’t man enough to answer a question or say ‘ I don’t know’. We can all see I said I will answer you once you answer the question I asked first. And you are the staller. 

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I have the answer, which is contingent of you providing the answer to the question asked of you. I am putting it in bold because it’s YOU who is stalling and isn’t man enough to answer a question or say ‘ I don’t know’. We can all see I said I will answer you once you answer the question I asked first. And you are the staller. 

You are putting it in bold because you are seeking attention. You have no answer except for abuses. Attention seeker.

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, Khota said:

You are putting it in bold because you are seeking attention. You have no answer except for abuses. Attention seeker.

I am putting it in bold because I am exposing you as the one with no answer to the whole board. Coward who cannot answer a simple question and keeps deflecting even when told that the answer to the question asked moves the convo forward. Why won’t you answer my question ?? Why don’t you have an answer to my question ?? 

[Khota]

50 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am putting it in bold because I am exposing you as the one with no answer to the whole board. Coward who cannot answer a simple question and keeps deflecting even when told that the answer to the question asked moves the convo forward. Why won’t you answer my question ?? Why don’t you have an answer to my question ?? 

Enough is enough. I have put up with your abuse. Answer this simple question. Why do you need more staregy if things are slow? Why is sitting on your @ss more starategic than 100m dash?You have no answer because you are a two bit thug who likes to argue. STFU.

[Muloghonto]

14 minutes ago, Khota said:

Enough is enough. I have put up with your abuse. Answer this simple question. Why do you need more staregy if things are slow? Why is sitting on your @ss more starategic than 100m dash?You have no answer because you are a two bit thug who likes to argue. STFU.

Answer my question first. Name the strategic strokes at the disposal of batters in baseball vs cricket. The answer to this question, WHICH I ASKED FIRST AND YOU ARE YET TO ANSWER, is pertinent to answering your question. Why are you stalling on answering this simple question for weeks ?? If you refuse to answer the question, STFU and admit you are wrong. You have no answer because you are a coward who runs away from simple sports questions.