Statistically best test XI of all time?True indication of ability??

[Harsh Thakor]

This is my all-time test statistically best XI of all time.It is a selection only on basis of statistics and not overall class or talent.Wish to asess whether pure statistics does true justice to overall stature of cricketers.

 

Sunil Gavaskar

Len Hutton

Don Bradman (C)

Sachin Tendulkar

Steve Smith

Jacques Kallis

Kumar Sangakaara (W)

Alan Davidson

Glen Mcgrath

Sydney Barnes

Murlitharan

 

 

Significant that in terms of pure stats stalwarts like Gary Sobers ,Shane Warne Viv Richards.Malcolm Marshall,Brian Lara or even Wasim Akram miss out.Davidson who was chosen to include left arm variety ,had a better bowling average than Wasim by a considerable margin and better batting average.Kallis considering aggregate and average is ahead of Sobers,marginally.Sanga was not as much a match-winner but stats wise ahead of Adam Gilchrist.Barnse average of 16.87 and 7 wickets per tset simply puts him on another planet just like Bradman with his average of 99.94.Tendulakars' run and century aggregate make him a unanimous choice just like Sunny as an opener.

 

 

My morally best test XI

 

Barry Richards

Hobbs

Bradman (C)

Lara

Tendulkar/Viv

Sobers

Gilchrist (W)

Warne

Marshall

Wasim

Mcgrath

 

Only Bradman,Tendulkar and Mcgrath remain from the statistically best XI of all time.proves that stats hardly does all the talking.

 

 

 

 

 

[zen]

Stats of a player can be influenced by a variety of factors including conditions, oppositions played against (say a player who has played a higher number of games vs Aus and SA vs. the one who has played most vs. SL and NZ in the same era), batting positions,  and so on.  
 

Stats have to be used as a guide and to identify a pool of players to shortlist, then you have to make judgment calls and slots players based on your strategy/team combination.

Picking teams just based on stats (which can turn out to be a good team too but not necessarily an optimized team) = doing sorting in excel

My ideal test 11 at this point:

* Gavaskar (Performances vs. top sides like WI. Technically solid. A circumspect to balance many swashbucklers in the 11)

* Viv Richards (Performances as a top order batsman. A great player of pace bowling. And a swashbuckler to partner the circumspect Gavaskar)

* Bradman (The ability to play high SR long innings and also be consistent. Well above his peers in his era)

* Lara (A great player of both pace and spin. Can win you tests with the bat. Most big scores vs. major teams after Bradman)

* S Smith (A gritty player. Will fight it out in the middle. Can perform in most conditions)

* Sobers (One of the best batsmen ever. And a swashbuckling AR)

* Gilly (An attacking WK batsman. Made a big impact as a WK batsman)

* Hadlee (The master of swing and accuracy. Won his team many games in different conditions. Also an AR so adds batting depth)

* Warne (The premier leg spinner. Also a relatively good batsman and fielder)

* Marshall (The premier test match bowler. Like Warne, can bat too)

* Ambrose (To support Marshall and Hadlee with pace, bounce, and accuracy. A great attacking bowler who can run through sides on his day. Someone who can defend a 150 or less score. Will be more lethal in the 4th innings w/ Warne) 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by zen

[Harsh Thakor]

58 minutes ago, zen said:

Stats of a player can be influenced by a variety of factors including conditions, oppositions played against (say a player who has played a higher number of games vs Aus and SA vs. the one who has played most vs. SL and NZ in the same era), batting positions,  and so on.  
 

Stats have to be used as a guide and to identify a pool of players to shortlist, then you have to make judgment calls and slots players based on your strategy/team combination.

Picking teams just based on stats (which can turn out to be a good team too but not necessarily an optimized team) = doing sorting in excel

My ideal test 11 at this point:

* Gavaskar (Performances vs. top sides like WI. Technically solid. A circumspect to balance many swashbucklers in the 11)

* Viv Richards (Performances as a top order batsman. A great player of pace bowling. And a swashbuckler to partner the circumspect Gavaskar)

* Bradman (The ability to play high SR long innings and also be consistent. Well above his peers in his era)

* Lara (A great player of both pace and spin. Can win you tests with the bat. Most big scores vs. major teams after Bradman)

* S Smith (A gritty player. Will fight it out in the middle. Can perform in most conditions)

* Sobers (One of the best batsmen ever. And a swashbuckling AR)

* Gilly (An attacking WK batsman. Made a big impact as a WK batsman)

* Hadlee (The master of swing and accuracy. Won his team many games in different conditions. Also an AR so adds batting depth)

* Warne (The premier leg spinner. Also a relatively good batsman and fielder)

* Marshall (The premier test match bowler. Like Warne, can bat too)

* Ambrose (To support Marshall and Hadlee with pace, bounce, and accuracy. A great attacking bowler who can run through sides on his day. Someone who can defend a 150 or less score. Will be more lethal in the 4th innings w/ Warne) 

 

 

 

 

 

Not Mcgrath instead of Hadlee or Ambrose?Not Wasim Akram or Tendulkar?Any reason?Anyway you made a very  good choice.

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Not Mcgrath instead of Hadlee or Ambrose?Not Wasim Akram or Tendulkar?Any reason?Anyway you made a very  good choice.

Hadlee can do whatever McGrath can while adding batting depth & swing. Ambrose, who can also do what McGrath can, brings variety by blending bounce and pace to compliment Marshall and Hadlee in the attack. Wasim, also a great bowler, is more suited to ODIs than those he is being compared with. The 11 has skillful bowlers like Marshall and Hadlee. Hadlee is also highly intelligent. 
 

This is all relatively speaking.
 

[maniac]

Stats may not tell the entire picture but they do tell most of it.

 

For example you may argue caveats between someone who average in low 20s vs some

one in the mid 20s with the ball or between 50+ and 60+ averages but you cannot justify a guy averaging in the 30s with the bat.

 

If you look at the Op’s statistical X1 most of the names are ATGs or atleast 2nd tier ATG’s.

 

Sunny,Sachin,Kallis,McGrath, Murali,Bradman- self explanatory 

 

Sanga- definitely  a 2nd tier ATG. If you consider him a keeper bat then his stock rises further

Steve Smith- rated as the best batsmen of this generation along with Kohli and on his way to be a ATG

 

Rest were before my time so don’t rate them but looks like if you go purely by stats we are not way too off

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by maniac

[zen]

On 4/17/2020 at 8:21 AM, Harsh Thakor said:

This is my all-time test statistically best XI of all time.It is a selection only on basis of statistics and not overall class or talent.Wish to asess whether pure statistics does true justice to overall stature of cricketers.

 

Sunil Gavaskar

Len Hutton

Don Bradman (C)

Sachin Tendulkar

Steve Smith

Jacques Kallis

Kumar Sangakaara (W)

 

 

For reference, below is a list of batsmen with 5k or more runs vs. major teams and an avg of 47 or more, without accounting for specific batting positions,  post 1960 .... and highligted the ones you have picked based on stats among these in blue

 

 Not as wicketkeeper

View overall figures [change view] Primary team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1960  Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper  Batting position between 1 and 7  Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 5000  and batting average greater than or equal to 47  Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 32 of 32   First Previous Next  Last  Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0   SPD Smith (AUS) 2010-2020 69 123 16 7008 239 65.49 26 27 4 KF Barrington (ENG) 1960-1968 75 122 15 6397 256 59.78 20 31 4 KC Sangakkara (SL) 2000-2015 74 135 11 7390 287 59.59 23 36 7 GS Sobers (WI) 1960-1974 66 113 14 5791 226 58.49 20 23 11 GS Chappell (AUS) 1970-1984 87 151 19 7110 247* 53.86 24 31 12 Javed Miandad (PAK) 1976-1993 121 184 21 8689 280* 53.30 23 42 6 BC Lara (WI) 1990-2006 126 223 6 11503 400* 53.00 32 47 17 JH Kallis (SA) 1995-2013 153 263 33 12152 224 52.83 41 53 16 V Kohli (INDIA) 2011-2020 82 140 10 6848 254* 52.67 25 22 9 RT Ponting (AUS) 1995-2012 160 275 27 12726 257 51.31 39 58 17 SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1971-1987 124 212 14 10118 236* 51.10 34 45 12 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 MEK Hussey (AUS) 2005-2013 77 134 16 5993 195 50.78 18 29 12 IVA Richards (WI) 1974-1991 121 179 11 8498 291 50.58 24 45 10 AR Border (AUS) 1978-1994 156 263 43 11116 205 50.52 27 63 11 R Dravid (INDIA) 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 Younis Khan (PAK) 2000-2017 106 194 15 8950 313 50.00 30 30 17 MJ Clarke (AUS) 2004-2015 112 192 21 8541 329* 49.94 28 27 9 AB de Villiers (SA) 2004-2018 82 143 14 6424 278* 49.79 15 37 7 V Sehwag (INDIA) 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 S Chanderpaul (WI) 1994-2015 146 254 41 10573 203* 49.63 25 62 15 SR Waugh (AUS) 1985-2004 162 250 41 10364 200 49.58 29 48 20 JE Root (ENG) 2012-2020 89 163 12 7468 254 49.45 17 47 8 Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) 1992-2007 102 169 16 7503 329 49.03 21 40 13 DA Warner (AUS) 2011-2020 82 151 7 6993 335* 48.56 22 30 9 KD Walters (AUS) 1965-1981 74 125 14 5357 250 48.26 15 33 4 ML Hayden (AUS) 1994-2009 96 174 13 7768 203 48.24 27 26 14 Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) 1998-2010 79 140 7 6411 223 48.20 20 26 10 CA Pujara (INDIA) 2010-2020 72 123 7 5559 206* 47.92 18 21 7 G Boycott (ENG) 1964-1982 108 193 23 8114 246* 47.72 22 42 10 DPMD Jayawardene (SL) 1997-2014 128 225 10 10248 374 47.66 28 45 14 WM Lawry (AUS) 1961-1971 67 123 12 5234 210 47.15 13 27 6

 

 

As WK

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia  or Bangladesh  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  or Zimbabwe

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1960

Wicketkeeper as designated wicketkeeper

Batting position between 1 and 7

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2500

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 15 of 15

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
A Flower (ZIM)	1992-2002	51	95	16	4158	232*	52.63	11	22	4
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1999-2008	86	118	17	4662	204*	46.15	14	22	14
MJ Prior (ENG)	2007-2014	70	96	15	3301	131*	40.75	5	23	9
KC Sangakkara (SL)	2000-2008	40	70	4	2633	230	39.89	6	8	3
JM Bairstow (ENG)	2013-2019	45	76	5	2790	167*	39.29	5	13	7
BJ Watling (NZ)	2013-2020	52	81	9	2640	205	36.66	4	14	7
Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH)	2007-2018	43	73	4	2512	200	36.40	5	10	5
APE Knott (ENG)	1968-1980	78	113	12	3667	135	36.30	5	25	5
BJ Haddin (AUS)	2008-2015	64	103	13	3166	169	35.17	4	18	6
MS Dhoni (INDIA)	2005-2014	85	129	12	4055	224	34.65	4	27	9
AJ Stewart (ENG)	1991-2003	76	136	13	4057	173	32.98	4	21	11
PJL Dujon (WI)	1982-1991	74	101	9	2858	139	31.06	5	14	8
IA Healy (AUS)	1988-1999	94	136	14	3452	161*	28.29	4	19	14
MV Boucher (SA)	1998-2012	105	142	11	3555	108	27.13	1	23	12
RW Marsh (AUS)	1970-1983	89	137	11	3351	132	26.59	3	14	1

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by zen

[zen]

10 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Alan Davidson

Glen Mcgrath

Sydney Barnes

Murlitharan

 

Pace Bowlers for reference

View overall figures [change view] Primary team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1960  Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper  Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler  Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 100  and bowling average less than or equal to 24  Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 17 of 17   First Previous Next  Last  Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10   MD Marshall (WI) 1978-1991 81 151 17584 7876 376 7/22 11/89 20.94 2.68 46.7 22 4 J Garner (WI) 1977-1987 58 111 13169 5433 259 6/56 9/108 20.97 2.47 50.8 7 0 CEL Ambrose (WI) 1988-2000 96 175 21641 8401 397 8/45 11/84 21.16 2.32 54.5 22 3 PJ Cummins (AUS) 2011-2020 28 53 6383 2947 137 6/23 10/62 21.51 2.77 46.5 5 1 GD McGrath (AUS) 1993-2007 120 235 28485 11930 549 8/24 10/27 21.73 2.51 51.8 29 3 FS Trueman (ENG) 1960-1965 36 67 8978 3940 179 7/44 12/119 22.01 2.63 50.1 12 3 VD Philander (SA) 2011-2020 60 113 10935 4828 219 6/21 10/102 22.04 2.64 49.9 13 2 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 86 150 21918 9611 431 9/52 15/123 22.29 2.63 50.8 36 9 AA Donald (SA) 1992-2002 69 123 14906 7113 316 7/84 12/139 22.50 2.86 47.1 19 2 Imran Khan (PAK) 1971-1992 88 142 19458 8258 362 8/58 14/116 22.81 2.54 53.7 23 6 CEH Croft (WI) 1977-1982 27 52 6165 2913 125 8/29 9/95 23.30 2.83 49.3 3 0 RJ Harris (AUS) 2010-2015 27 52 5736 2658 113 7/117 9/106 23.52 2.78 50.7 5 0 DW Steyn (SA) 2004-2019 86 159 17426 9507 403 7/51 11/60 23.59 3.27 43.2 24 5 MA Holding (WI) 1975-1987 60 113 12680 5898 249 8/92 14/149 23.68 2.79 50.9 13 2 SM Pollock (SA) 1995-2008 100 186 22964 9238 389 7/87 10/147 23.74 2.41 59.0 15 1 Wasim Akram (PAK) 1985-2001 92 160 20096 8728 367 7/119 11/110 23.78 2.60 54.7 21 4 DK Lillee (AUS) 1971-1984 70 132 18467 8493 355 7/83 11/123 23.92 2.75 52.0 23 7

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by zen