Ankit_sharma03 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: Anyone can bowl a few part-time overs. No he's not. yet they dont coz its not easy for part timers anymore , so u need a bit more control . The diff is when u dnt bowl regularly u dnt have control ur suggestion is kishen who doesnt even bowl 12 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: He played only one match at No. 4 in that series. And if you want to go that far back, you could still make a case for Kedar Jadhav who was Man Of The Series against England that same year. He solves your part-timer problem too. Do you want Kedar Jadhav? is jadhav even in form to be even talked about . Going back ?? what has he aged or lost his reflexes....its not some 10 yrs ago 39 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: His shoulder issues have nothing to do with not bowling. Virat Kohli just doesn't prefer to bowl from part-timers. He did from Jadhav because he proved to be a golden arm. Rohit said in an interview this May that he is prepared to bowl 10 overs in Test matches. no captain prefers part timers anymore , its not 2000s there are 2 new balls bats are bigger, grounds are small 4 fielder outside as compare to 5 batsman have more range jadhav n root worked coz of variation 10 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: No he's not. he is . Edited November 8, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 46 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: every team is packed with all rounders - look at NZ- CDGH, Neesham, Santner So what? Even West Indies does and they haven't reached ICC World Cup final in a long time. We don't need to ape other countries. 48 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: pandya n jadeja bat at such position that they get rare chances and when they do they have to hit only Because that's the role they're best at. Their performances up the order are mediocre. 49 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: When ur team bundled last in Semi it was hardik n pant who 1st had a partnership and then jadeja and before that in 2017 Ct it was pandya Both times Pandya and Jadeja were batting in lower middle order, not higher middle order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Just now, TNAmarkFromIndia said: So what? Even West Indies does and they haven't reached ICC World Cup final in a long time. We don't need to ape other countries. coz their specialist are inconsistent, didnt they 2 t20 wc ...arent we talking about loi which also has t20 Every team plays all rounder for team balance ...same england won wc and Nz was runner up with alll rounder Even Pakistan has imad n faheem Just now, TNAmarkFromIndia said: Because that's the role they're best at. Their performances up the order are mediocre. they are currently our best option and with some players u dnt look number specially then one who bats at 6,7 Not only they bat , they bowl and field as well Just now, TNAmarkFromIndia said: Both times Pandya and Jadeja were batting in lower middle order, not higher middle order. so, ur question was did they help when team was bundled out ? They wud be batting at those position only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: yet they dont coz its not easy for part timers anymore , so u need a bit more control . The diff is when u dnt bowl regularly u dnt have control ur suggestion is kishen who doesnt even bowl is jadhav even in form to be even talked about . Going back ?? what has he aged or lost his reflexes....its not some 10 yrs ago no captain prefers part timers anymore , its not 2000s there are 2 new balls bats are bigger, grounds are small 4 fielder outside as compare to 5 batsman have more range jadhav n root worked coz of variation he is . A part-timer isn't going to bowl regularly anyway. Kohli is only going to use them when someone gets injured or something. My suggestion is to not pick anyone on their part-time bowling. It's barely going to come to use. My point is winning a Man Of The Series 3 years ago doesn't mean anything for the team right now. The new rules and playing conditions is exactly why it's best to go for specialist batsmen and bowlers than more bits-and-pieces cricketers who don't contribute enough in either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: A part-timer isn't going to bowl regularly anyway. Kohli is only going to use them when someone gets injured or something. u cant go in match thinking like that, u need a cushion in every game why do u think teams now also need cushion at 8 in batting, do u think there wud be collapse in every game.....why does every team has 6-7 bowling option they wont use every game ....look at any franchise Quote My suggestion is to not pick anyone on their part-time bowling. It's barely going to come to use. No samad suggestion comes due to his power game, bowling is what gives him brownie points which is where sky falls coz his bowling has chucking issue or even DK in past coz he doesnt bowl Quote My point is winning a Man Of The Series 3 years ago doesn't mean anything for the team right now. why doesnt it ? isnt it perfomance....he has been injured in last 2 yrs Quote The new rules and playing conditions is exactly why it's best to go for specialist batsmen and bowlers than more bits-and-pieces cricketers who don't contribute enough in either. dont we have enough of specialist its a myth that those guys dont contribute i had this discussion with khota 100 times, if no team or franchise is following it u dnt have a case Edited November 8, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: coz their specialist are inconsistent, didnt they 2 t20 wc ...arent we talking about loi which also has t20 Every team plays all rounder for team balance ...same england won wc and Nz was runner up with alll rounder Even Pakistan has imad n faheem WI does well in T20 but not 50-over. New Zealand does well in 50-over but not T20. Pakistan performed in one CT but never otherwise. India reached the knockouts of all those tournaments yet you want us to copy the strategy of teams that only work in one format? India's problems of not crossing the final hurdle has nothing to do with not playing more all-rounders. It has to do with the fact that Kohli has backed the wrong players in the middle order for 6 years now. We're top heavy and weak in the middle. We need to back the right batsmen in the middle order and stick with it. No constant chopping and changing. 17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: they are currently our best option At No. 7, yes. Not higher than that. 19 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: so, ur question was did they help when team was bundled out ? They wud be batting at those position only Look at their stats. Their numbers when they were sent higher up the order aren't great. You talk about Pandya's one innings from 3 years ago but he also scored a lot of single digit scores. Same with Jadeja. They're not suited for higher up the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: WI does well in T20 but not 50-over. New Zealand does well in 50-over but not T20. Pakistan performed in one CT but never otherwise. India reached the knockouts of all those tournaments yet you want us to copy the strategy of teams that only work in one format? how many teams will u question, every team has it pak problem is quality WI specialist inconsistency NZ- lack of many t20 specialist will u also questione england who has moeen ali, stokes, woakes, curran bros, willey Quote India's problems of not crossing the final hurdle has nothing to do with not playing more all-rounders. It has to do with the fact that Kohli has backed the wrong players in the middle order for 6 years now. We're top heavy and weak in the middle. We need to back the right batsmen in the middle order and stick with it. No constant chopping and changing. we have already added Rahul n iyer to middle as compare previous team, u cant add more batting and compromise on bowling or add just bowler compromise on depth Quote At No. 7, yes. Not higher than that. Look at their stats. Their numbers when they were sent higher up the order aren't great. You talk about Pandya's one innings from 3 years ago but he also scored a lot of single digit scores. Same with Jadeja. They're not suited for higher up the order. i have already made thread and showed jadeja good innings when he has had time in hand , in all inning comman patter was him having 15-20 overs so they are going to bat at 6-7 only Edited November 8, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: WI does well in T20 but not 50-over. New Zealand does well in 50-over but not T20. Pakistan performed in one CT but never otherwise. India reached the knockouts of all those tournaments yet you want us to copy the strategy of teams that only work in one format? India's problems of not crossing the final hurdle has nothing to do with not playing more all-rounders. It has to do with the fact that Kohli has backed the wrong players in the middle order for 6 years now. We're top heavy and weak in the middle. We need to back the right batsmen in the middle order and stick with it. No constant chopping and changing. At No. 7, yes. Not higher than that. Look at their stats. Their numbers when they were sent higher up the order aren't great. You talk about Pandya's one innings from 3 years ago but he also scored a lot of single digit scores. Same with Jadeja. They're not suited for higher up the order. Both Pandya and Jadeja will play, that is our best bet. Jadeja can be sent higher if there are 15+ overs left and Pandya will be sent for final 10-12 overs. At that position what we need is a batsmen who is a better striker of the ball and can bowl a few overs and Pandya is a better hitter/striker against international class bowler than a Samson/Kishan would be and can bowl a few overs as well. Add the fielding of the duo, in ODIs this is the best option we have. Rohit, Dhawan/Mayank, Kohli, Iyer and Rahul are all specialist batsmen and will be in our top 5. Edited November 8, 2020 by Majestic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: u cant go in match thinking like that, u need a cushion in every game No you don't. If you have clear cut roles, everyone knows their responsibilities. If we get bundled out, it's on the batsmen. If we get taken for runs, it's on the bowlers. You need to trust that they will perform their roles. 34 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: why do u think teams now also need cushion at 8 in batting, do u think there wud be collapse in every game.....why does every team has 6-7 bowling option they wont use every game ....look at any franchise That's what I mean. You shouldn't plan just for the off chance that there would be a collapse. And you certainly shouldn't blindly follow what other teams are doing. 41 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: No samad suggestion comes due to his power game, bowling is what gives him brownie points It doesn't. His bowling is useless. Rohit Sharma wants to bowl. Might as well bowl from him and get in another proper bat. 42 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: why doesnt it ? isnt it perfomance....he has been injured in last 2 yrs 3 year old performances aren't relevant when picking a team for today. 44 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: dont we have enough of specialist Replacing one specialist with another. When did I talk about adding more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: how many teams will u question, every team has it And how many of those teams are successful? India hasn't won a single ICC trophy in 7 years but they have been the most consistent side across all tournaments. Their strategy isn't the problem. The players they're backing is. 41 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: will u also questione england who has moeen ali, stokes, woakes, curran bros, willey Yes. They're more susceptible to collapses than India. Almost didn't make it to the World Cup knockouts after losing to Sri Lanka and Pakistan. 48 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: we have already added Rahul n iyer to middle as compare previous team, u cant add more batting and compromise on bowling or add just bowler compromise on depth Who's compromising on bowling? The all-rounder, either Pandya or Jadeja, plays at 7 like they usually would. Neither of them were No. 6 batsmen. 49 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: i have already made thread and showed jadeja good innings when he has had time in hand , in all inning comman patter was him having 15-20 overs so they are going to bat at 6-7 only He only has two 40+ scores in 21 matches in the last 2 seasons. One of those innings was a 55 at strike rate of 75.34. You think that record is deserving of the No. 6 slot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 33 minutes ago, Majestic said: Both Pandya and Jadeja will play, that is our best bet. It's our worst bet. Especially looking towards 2023 which is 3 years away. Jadeja was in terrible form before the World Cup and like Karthik, is relevant only because of his performance in one match, which was the World Cup semi-final. Just look at this thread. From 2015-2019, his average with the bat was 18.68 at a strike rate of 87.42, and he picked 37 wickets at 46.67. He's not a dependable batsman. Just someone who provides some hope at 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: And how many of those teams are successful? India hasn't won a single ICC trophy in 7 years but they have been the most consistent side across all tournaments. Their strategy isn't the problem. The players they're backing is. Yes. They're more susceptible to collapses than India. Almost didn't make it to the World Cup knockouts after losing to Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Who's compromising on bowling? The all-rounder, either Pandya or Jadeja, plays at 7 like they usually would. Neither of them were No. 6 batsmen. He only has two 40+ scores in 21 matches in the last 2 seasons. One of those innings was a 55 at strike rate of 75.34. You think that record is deserving of the No. 6 slot? Well, that is a problem. Pandya is no more an all-rounder. He didn't even bowled a single over this entire IPL. Once he starts taking up his bowling, you will find that his bowling will be no longer good enough for 10 overs. He can barely bowl five overs now but can certainly improve his batting a bit more and as hitter/striker, he is the best we have. That is the point. Edited November 8, 2020 by Majestic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: It's our worst bet. Especially looking towards 2023 which is 3 years away. Jadeja was in terrible form before the World Cup and like Karthik, is relevant only because of his performance in one match, which was the World Cup semi-final. Just look at this thread. From 2015-2019, his average with the bat was 18.68 at a strike rate of 87.42, and he picked 37 wickets at 46.67. He's not a dependable batsman. Just someone who provides some hope at 7. So,if you play Pandya at 7, you will make Pandya bowl 10 overs?? You think he is good enough to bowl 10 overs?? It would be blasphemous to expect Pandya to bowl his full quota of 10 overs in ODIs anytime soon. That is why we are putting Jadeja in. Btw, Jadeja has improved his batting a lot. When he started in 2013, he batted like a night-watchmen. But look at this year's performance:- Avg 46, S/R 173. His experience will be very useful, the guy has played 170 ODIs now. Playing both Pandya and Jadeja may not solve all our problems but ultimately that is the only option left for us in ODIs. Edited November 8, 2020 by Majestic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 29 minutes ago, Majestic said: He didn't even bowled a single over this entire IPL. Injury management. 30 minutes ago, Majestic said: Once he starts taking up his bowling, you will find that his bowling will be no longer good enough for 10 overs. Remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Majestic said: It would be blasphemous to expect Pandya to bowl his full quota of 10 overs in ODIs anytime soon. "blasphemous" lol. Unless we know what his medical reports are, no one can speculate how soon or how far away he is from bowling again. 20 minutes ago, Majestic said: Btw, Jadeja has improved his batting a lot. When he started in 2013, he batted like a night-watchmen. But look at this year's performance:- Avg 46, S/R 173. His performance this year is Avg 54, S/R 84.37. He scored one 50 at a strike rate of 75.34. The same match Saini scored 45 off 49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: "blasphemous" lol. Unless we know what his medical reports are, no one can speculate how soon or how far away he is from bowling again. His performance this year is Avg 54, S/R 84.37. He scored one 50 at a strike rate of 75.34. The same match Saini scored 45 off 49. I meant IPL performance because anyways we are talking about Kishan and Samson for their great performance this year's IPL only. Pandya is a mediocre bowler, he is a much better batsmen than a bowler and after injury once he trundles at 120 kph, I doubt if he will be even good enough to bowl 5 overs. It is better for him that he focuses more on his batting than bowling. The scope is higher there for him. Edited November 8, 2020 by Majestic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 53 minutes ago, Majestic said: I meant IPL performance because anyways we are talking about Kishan and Samson for their great performance this year's IPL only. They aren't TTFs like Jadeja. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 15 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: They aren't TTFs like Jadeja. But they cant bowl and Pandya is a TTF with bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNAmarkFromIndia Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Majestic said: But they cant bowl and Pandya is a TTF with bowl. Economy rate of 5.5, takes a wicket every match. Pretty good for a 5th bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said: Economy rate of 5.5, takes a wicket every match. Pretty good for a 5th bowler. Pandya averages 40 with bowl and Jadeja has economy of 4.9, not good enough. Post injury, it seems its gonna go worse. I would rather rely on Pandya's batting than bowling. Given his batting talent, he should look to become a batsmen who can do some part time bowling. He has the talent and ability to improve his batting but not his bowling. Edited November 9, 2020 by Majestic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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