Md Siraj: From Ashes to Phoenix

[rollingstoned]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We should not be happy with either medium pacers or spray-gun quick bowlers.

 

i wouldn't mind 1 bowler who is sub-135 kph if they move the ball well and bowl with control. not that im asking for trundlers but those sort of bowlers still get a lot of wickets, Cdg, Philander, early years bhuvi types. an attack should have variety of hit the deck bowlers, accurate seamers, swing bowlers, left armers, express pace, etc. siraj can definitely replace shami in a few yrs imo, i can see him doing well abroad but also not being useless in india with his skill set.

[RajBan]

24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

If we want a great fast bowling attack ... we should always be on the lookout for fast bowlers who combine pace and bounce with skills ... like Bumrah and Shami.

 

We should not be happy with either medium pacers or spray-gun quick bowlers.

 

Very tall pacers who get steep bounce, are ok even at 135 k because they can hurry batters with sudden bounce.

 

 

Largely agree but there are exceptions where a medium can be lethal on certain  conditions or very intelligent in application or show tremendous discipline that they are hard to counter. 

 

In the era of Donald and Pollock, there used to be a guy called De Villiers, one of the most disciplined bowler I have seen in my lifetime. He was so difficult to hit against, that there was a time when his name used to come first even before Pollock or Donald when selecting a ODI squad. Nothing express, regular pace but tremendous discipline and bowling intelligently. In LOI teams one such bowler always is great asset as it stops runs on one end , allowing strike bowlers to pick up wickets from the other end.

Edited February 4, 2021 by RajBan

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

i wouldn't mind 1 bowler who is sub-135 kph if they move the ball well and bowl with control. not that im asking for trundlers but those sort of bowlers still get a lot of wickets, Cdg, Philander, early years bhuvi types.

 

 

Philander has a high bowling average in Asia.

 

Bhuvi was always dropped from the test side whenever flatter tracks were seen. Which is why he has played just 21 tests in all these years.

 

Quote

an attack should have variety of hit the deck bowlers, accurate seamers, swing bowlers, left armers, express pace, etc.

 

 

If we look at some of the best fast bowling attacks in test match history

 

... the West Indian pace attacks of 1975 to 1985  ( Garner, Roberts, Marshall, Holding, Croft )

... The Australian pace attacks of 1995 to 2007 ( McGrath, Gillespie, Lee )

... the West Indian bowling attacks of 1986 to 1995 ( Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Patterson )

 

Or if we look at the Indian fast bowling attack from 2018 to 2020 ... which has been our best in history ... averaging just 22 as a group in this period  ( Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Umesh )

 

----  None of these pace attacks had a left arm seamer

----  None of these attacks had a medium paced swing bowler

----  All these pacers were either hit the deck bowlers or skiddy quick bowlers.

 

 

Too much variety in a good pace attack is over rated.  The primary thing is to have pacers who can take wickets and have hostility too. 

 

There can be variety in an out and out right arm fast bowling attack too. Like tall bouncy bowlers and shorter skiddy pacers.

 

 

Quote

siraj can definitely replace shami in a few yrs imo, i can see him doing well abroad but also not being useless in india with his skill set.

 

 

 

Siraj can be a very good bowler provided he bowls at his full pace.

 

If he decides to go the Zaheer Khan way and cut down pace then he will be a good Sena bowler who is average at home. Talking about the long run ... he can do well at home as long as the novelty factor is there.

 

A pacer as talented as Siraj should try to be a top all condition bowler and not aim to be a condition specific bowler.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, RajBan said:

Largely agree but there are exceptions where a medium can be lethal on certain  conditions or very intelligent in application or show tremendous discipline that they are hard to counter. 

 

In the era of Donald and Pollock, there used to be a guy called De Villiers, one of the most disciplined bowler I have seen in my lifetime. He was so difficult to hit against, that there was a time when his name used to come first even before Pollock or Donald when selecting a ODI squad. Nothing express, regular pace but tremendous discipline and bowling intelligently. In LOI teams one such bowler always is great asset as it stops runs on one end , allowing strike bowlers to pick up wickets from the other end.

 

 

I prefer all condition bowlers.

 

By the way ... Fannie DeVilliers was a skiddy quick bowler. Not bouncy but very zippy and looked 135 k to 145 k pace range to me.

[express bowling]

I hope Siraj is chosen as the 2nd pacer after Bumrah, for the first test against England.

 

He is on a high and has momentum on his side and can go from strength to strength if he gets a continuous run till Shami is fit.

 

Ishant's fitness level for a 5 day game is still unclear. He has played just T20s after return.

[rollingstoned]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Philander has a high bowling average in Asia.

 

Bhuvi was always dropped from the test side whenever flatter tracks were seen. Which is why he has played just 21 tests in all these years.

 

 

 

If we look at some of the best fast bowling attacks in test match history

 

... the West Indian pace attacks of 1975 to 1985  ( Garner, Roberts, Marshall, Holding, Croft )

... The Australian pace attacks of 1995 to 2007 ( McGrath, Gillespie, Lee )

... the West Indian bowling attacks of 1986 to 1995 ( Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Patterson )

 

Or if we look at the Indian fast bowling attack from 2018 to 2020 ... which has been our best in history ... averaging just 22 as a group in this period  ( Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Umesh )

 

----  None of these pace attacks had a left arm seamer

----  None of these attacks had a medium paced swing bowler

----  All these pacers were hit either hit the deck bowlers or skiddy quick bowlers.

 

 

Too much variety in a good pace attack is over rated.  The primary thing is to have pacers who can take wickets and have hostility too. 

 

There can be variety in an out and out right arm fast bowling attack too. Like tall bouncy bowlers and shorter skiddy pacers.

 

 

 

 

 

Siraj can be a very good bowler provided he bowls at his full pace.

 

If he decides to go the Zaheer Khan way and cut down pace then he will be a good Sena bowler who is average at home. Talking about the long run ... he can do well at home as long as the novelty factor is there.

 

A pacer as talented as Siraj should try to be a top all condition bowler and not aim to be a condition specific bowler.

 

 

 

 

look ideally you want all condition bowlers who pick themselves like cummins, rabada, bumrah, etc but even the best teams did not have an attack full of such bowlers. under such circumstances having horses for courses is the way to go which is something the tm also sees imo. barring everything else variety will always be an important factor much like it is when picking a spin attack or lhb in your batting line up.

[express bowling]

58 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

look ideally you want all condition bowlers who pick themselves like cummins, rabada, bumrah, etc but even the best teams did not have an attack full of such bowlers. under such circumstances having horses for courses is the way to go which is something the tm also sees imo. barring everything else variety will always be an important factor much like it is when picking a spin attack or lhb in your batting line up.

 

 

Bumrah, Shami and Ishant can bowl well in most conditions from 2018 onwards.

 

Siraj too can be such a pacer if he bowls at his full pace of 135 k to 145 k.

 

Having 4 such pacers at the same time is not bad at all.

 

And any new pacers we look for should be skilful 140 k+ pacers too.

 

I say this because we have the best fast bowling attack in our history and one of the best fast bowling attacks ever by choosing a bunch of skilful 140 k+ pacers who can hit the deck hard when needed.