Can Amazon be saved this time?

[zen]

2 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

You would of course not say that if your life depended on it.  Read "The wizard and the prophet" by Charles Mann.  

 

$ is the least imp criteria for me in strategic matters ... I have seen discussions in Ind where ppl have argued not going to war with Pak because of trade with it 

 

 

Quote

I stand by my opinion that overall forestation is more important than Amazon forestation,  And that overall forestation on earth is going up for 40 yrs. thanks to intensification of agriculture and decreasing the overall footprint of food production so that land can be spared for the wild.  That is how we move forward - thread goal met. 

 

No one is saying that deforestation should not be advanced in other countries. I started a thread on Ind too (link posted in OP)  ... The fact is that Amazon is the among the most important rainforests, which carries unique wildlife as well (roughly home to 10% of the species on the planet). A 20-25% deforestation could be catastrophic. Many in that country are fighting deforestation on a war footing 

 

 

Below provides a nice summary on the imp of Amazon (it is not just another forest): 

 

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

$ is the least imp criteria for me in strategic matters ...

It would be, if you were a farmer trying to grow food and survive.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

It would be, if you were a farmer trying to grow food and survive.

Nope!  … At some point, we have to stop thinking about only ourselves and look at the big picture!  

[BacktoCricaddict]

14 minutes ago, zen said:

Nope!  … At some point, we have to stop thinking about only ourselves and look at the big picture!  

Spoken like a true elitist.  

 

The way forward is to feed hungry human mouths and accelerate economic development in all nations - by producing more clean energy, producing more food on less land by intensifying agriculture by using more modern technology, and sparing more land for all forests. This will to minimize the impacts of climate change and allow biodiversity to flourish for our future use.  Everything else is noise.  

Edited June 14, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[zen]

18 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Spoken like a true elitist.  

 

The way forward is to feed hungry human mouths and accelerate economic development in all nations - by producing more clean energy, producing more food on less land by intensifying agriculture by using more modern technology, and sparing more land for all forests. This will to minimize the impacts of climate change and allow biodiversity to flourish for our future use.  Everything else is noise.  

 

Note that from Amazon, the world has already taken 17-20% of its forest for other use ... There is not much space left there if we go by 20-25% level of deforestation being catastrophic:

 

Early estimates suggested that this “tipping point” might lie at around 40% deforestation. But in 2018, noted Amazon climatologist Carlos Nobre and conservation biologist Thomas Lovejoy revised this estimate, warning that the synergistic effects of climate change, drought and wildfires could bring the tipping point much closer — between 20 and 25% deforestation.

 

The present study, led by Robert Walker at the University of Florida, Gainesville, combined projections of future agricultural expansion published by Brazil’s Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Food Supply (MAPA) and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations (FAO), along with plans for the region’s industrial and infrastructure development, in order to estimate the total area of the Amazon basin that could be deforested by 2050. They found that agricultural expansion and infrastructure development over the next thirty years could put the Amazon rainforest well beyond the tipping point for shifting to a savanna biome.

 

Link

 

 

 

As for the other things that you mentioned, I am a supporter of all that too. Where a negative impact on environment and ecosystem due to humans actions can be huge, I would prefer humans to be out of there!

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by zen

[zen]

Nice summary of the tipping point below ... SE Amazon region could already have crossed it   ... Anyone who loves the planet should be extremely concerned about what is happening there (mainly due to the illegal activities of farmers, loggers, miners and ranchers, supported by politicians):

 

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

58 minutes ago, zen said:

Nice summary of the tipping point below ... SE Amazon region could already have crossed it   ... Anyone who loves the planet should be extremely concerned about what is happening there (mainly due to the illegal activities of farmers, loggers, miners and ranchers, supported by politicians):

 

 

 

 

I'll watch anything that does not use misleading terminology like "lungs of the world."  Exaggerations and misleading stats don't serve the cause well.  The Amazon does not provide 20% of the world's oxygen.  

 

Some have taken it to mean that we’re at risk of jeopardizing the world’s oxygen supply. “We need O2 to survive!” former astronaut Scott Kelly tweeted last week.

 

However, the figure—which has earned the forest the title “lungs of the Earth”—is a gross overestimate. As several scientists have pointed out in recent days, the Amazon’s net contribution to the oxygen we breathe likely hovers around zero.

“There are a number of reasons why you would want to keep the Amazon in place, oxygen just isn’t any one of them,” remarks Earth systems scientist Michael Coe, who directs the Amazon program at the Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts.

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/why-amazon-doesnt-produce-20-percent-worlds-oxygen

 

[zen]

1 minute ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

I'll watch anything that does not use misleading terminology like "lungs of the world."  Exaggerations and misleading stats don't serve the cause well.  The Amazon does not provide 20% of the world's oxygen.  

 

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/why-amazon-doesnt-produce-20-percent-worlds-oxygen

 

 

I do not recall if the clip talks about %s of world's oxygen, it is by and large on the tipping point  

[BacktoCricaddict]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I do not recall if the clip talks about %s of world's oxygen, it is by and large on the tipping point  

The video title says "lungs of the world" - loud and clear.  That term comes from the misleading totally false idea that it is responsible for 20% of the world's oxygen.  Using such language is plain, unnecessary fearmongering.  

 

If they want to sensationalize the issue by using terms like "lungs of the world," when they don't really talk about it in those terms, they can expect it to be counterproductive and off-putting to the audience.  

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[YCCC]

Oh I thought this was going to be about the company. I wondered why they would need saving 

[gattaca]

Amazon is the most profitable company in the world it needs no saving. 
 

The rainforest and forests in general itself yeah probably but it should start with stopping all electronics and storage systems. How much junk we create ?There was stat on how many trees are killed because of junk mail. Millions that would a start. What would say to farmers as well? Do less and try to yield more but will it work ?  Brazil and countries surrounding Amazon are poor they will convert forests in to farms. This is the hard part first world dictates things to third world saying now that we cut our trees and developed  don’t cut yours. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by gattaca

[zen]

The land grabbing criminals (from among the farmers, loggers, miners and ranchers) continued with the deforestation of Amazon during the pandemic as attention was focused there:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by zen