Harsha Bhogle releases his All-Time India Test XI

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

lol dude what are you on abt. ATG batting attacks will demolish india's bowling attack while others wont since there bowlers are all individually atgs in most cases.

Australia will put up [Miller, Warne, Lillee, McGrath] with part times from Waugh and Chappell

SA will throw in [Rice, Procter, Pollock, Kallis, Steyn, Tayfield]. You think atg batsmen will dominate such a lineup conviniently?

Pakistan god forbid to face have [Wasim, Fazal, Imran, Waqar and Saqlain] This is just complete in every aspect you look at it. Batsman are going to struggle vs this


Then look at ours, a 30 averaging Kapil is our best bowler. The shame in this is so hard, like srsly putting zak and co with him to try decimating ATG Batsmen is gonna result in such a humiliating blow against teams who have both facets covered with equal statures

Srinath

Bumrah

Shami

Kapil

 

That's a phenomenal attack. Combined and played collectively together they would dominate attacks in sena and would be better than parks attack. 

[Jay]

1 minute ago, zen said:

 Lack of quality, ability to do well in specific conditions only (ATG matches are assumed to take place in sporting conditions)

 

It can win a match here and there v top sides but that is about it 

Define sporting? 

In spin tracks no team stands a chance vs India

 

In bounce? India has the bowling to dominate there. 

 

In swing ok. That's our weakness. 

 

What's sporting. 

 

Most ATgs suck in India expect McGrath, steyn. 

[Jay]

Sporting lol. Then parks already out of top 5. 

 

Sporting wickets? Only west Indies can dominate. 

 

Sporting wickets catered to pace, spin or swing. Or conducive to all 3? Impossible to produce a pitch that is conducive to all 3. 

 

Seaming tracks? Even dibbly dobbly medium pace fodders can do well in Seaming tracks due to swing on offer. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Jay

[zen]

Just now, Jay said:

Define sporting? 

In spin tracks no team stands a chance vs India

 

In bounce? India has the bowling to dominate there. 

 

In swing ok. That's our weakness. 

 

What's sporting. 

 

Most ATgs suck in India expect McGrath, steyn. 

Most teams do well in home conditions. The Aus of 00 beat Ind in 2004 and Ind needed an ATG performance from Laxman in 2001. In 2000s, Ind team had many players who are in Harsha’s team or their equivalent … SA has won a series in Ind too … Pak beat Ind in 1987 and had the better of 3 tests in 1999-00 (one test was part of Asian Test championship) … SL cleaned Ind up in spinning conditions in 2007-08 where Sehwag scored a double 

Most of the folks who has followed cricket since a long time will not see your POV, which is basically to blow Ind’s trumpet 

[Jay]

Just now, zen said:

Most teams do well in home conditions. The Aus of 00 beat Ind in 2004 and Ind needed an ATG performance from Laxman in 2001. In 2000s, Ind team had many players who are in Harsha’s team or their equivalent … SA has won a series in Ind too … Pak beat Ind in 1987 and had the better of 3 tests in 1999-00 (one test was part of Asian Test championship) … SL cleaned Ind up in spinning conditions in 2007-08 where Sehwag scored a double 

Most of the folks who has followed cricket since a long time will not see your POV, which is basically to blow Ind’s trumpet 

India never had the quality bowling at the time. It was kumble by himself. 

 

You are talking ATG bowling which includes all quality bowlers from all eras. India will be very hard to beat at home and away. Combined they are a very good attack. 

 

Our fab 4 wasn't even In their prime at the time when they lost to Pakistan. Peaks matter. Are you talking about both teams playing at their peak. Then the best ever 90s version Pakistan couldn't even beat a weak India. 

 

Go have a look at the bowling s.africa faced in 98 when they beat us. Then come back to me. We had maybe 4 quality players playing at the time vs an ATg level s.african side. 

[zen]

Just now, Jay said:

India never had the quality bowling at the time. It was kumble by himself. 

 

You are talking ATG bowling which includes all quality bowlers from all eras. India will be very hard to beat at home and away. Combined they are a very good attack. 

 

Our fab 4 wasn't even In their prime at the time when they lost to Pakistan. Peaks matter. Are you talking about both teams playing at their peak. Then the best ever 90s version Pakistan couldn't even beat a weak India. 

 

Go have a look at the bowling s.africa faced in 98 when they beat us. Then come back to me. We had maybe 4 quality players playing at the time vs an ATg level s.african side. 

Buddy, other teams can make the similar points, which would make them even stronger 

 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

The fact tailored pitches and conditions and whatever is needed to be brought up to make india's bowling attack relevant while no other nation would have given a shi about that cause of their trust and confidence in their bowlers, should answer everything wrong with India's.

Chewtiya. Australia tailors their pitches to suit their 6'4 bowlers. 

 

S.africa tailors their pitches to suit their tall bowlers. 

 

W.indies? Same. 

 

Every *ing yram tailors their pitches to suit their strengths. 

 

Doctored pitches? Pakistan are kings of doctoring their pitches. 

 

Aussies are innovators of doctoring their pitches to make it very bounce friendly Which suits their bowlers. S.africa rofl deliberately doctoring their pitches depending on teams that tour. 

.get the * out of here an fly back to Islamabad. 

[Jay]

Just now, zen said:

Buddy, other teams can make the similar points, which would make them even stronger 

 

Buddy, so can I. 

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

Buddy, so can I. 

I am not here to blow Ind’s trumpet unnecessarily (I would like Ind even if it is at #9) but give an opinion based on general facts 

If your point is that Ind bowling improves relatively, other teams attacks too (to retain their advantage over Ind’s)

 

Take McGrath & Warne, add Lillee to it, it is a different attack. Then you have the option to imagine peak, which you imagine for Ind, Cummins, Starc, Lyon,  …

WI has the option to consider Ambrose, Walsh, Gibbs, etc to go with its 80s attack 

SA can play Donald, Steyn, Rabada, …

 

NZ can have Hadlee, Bond, Southee, Boult, Wagner, etc playing together 

 

Eng can have Barnes bowling with other bowlers 

 

And so on 

PS many of these bowlers are in a higher tier than most Ind bowlers 

Edited July 20, 2021 by zen

[Jay]

Just now, zen said:

I am not here to blow Ind’s trumpet unnecessarily (I would like Ind even if it is at #9) but give an opinion based on general facts 

If your point is that Ind bowling improves relatively, other teams attacks too 

 

Take McGrath & Warne, add Lillee to it, it is a different attack. Then you have the option to imagine peak, which you imagine for Ind, Cummins, Starc, Lyon,  …

 

SA can play Donald, Steyn, Rabada, …

 

NZ can have Hadlee, Bond, Southee, Boult, Wagner, etc playing together 

 

Eng can have Barnes bowling with other bowlers 

 

And so on 

 

Yea and? We just don't know how good they will be. It's all conjecture. Sena teams only need to add 1 player to change the outlook of their team. We have already seen their AtG teams play. 

 

We haven't seen India's AtG bowling play together. That's a huge difference. 

[zen]

Just now, Jay said:

Yea and? We just don't know how good they will be. It's all conjecture. Sena teams only need to add 1 player to change the outlook of their team. We have already seen their AtG teams play. 

 

We haven't seen India's AtG bowling play together. That's a huge difference. 

Conjuncture is for those who try to make ordinary teams look better 

 

Being an Ind ATG bowler means zilch when many many of the other teams have world ATG level bowlers 

[Jay]

Just now, zen said:

Conjuncture is for those who try to make ordinary teams look better 

 

Being an Ind ATG bowler means zilch when many many of the other teams have world ATG level bowlers 

You haven't seen them play together though. I haven't seen the so called world class ATgs do well in India. Being good everywhere is a requisite to be an ATG. Except McGrath, steyn not many have done well. Donald. Definitely no kiwi. No Englishman unless you count the ancient times when India dint even take cricket seriously. 

 

Post the ATg sides you think are better. Let's compare. 

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

Then Zimbabwe ATG bowling attack > India's as well then

Duncan Fletcher 28 avg
Kevin Curran 28 avg
Heath Streak 26 avg
Paul Strang 33 avg
Blessing Muzarabani 25 avg
6th option/part time : Sean Williams.

Now imagine these on peak together, equal or better. And this peak which is comparable to india's is nothing in front of other country's bowlers at their peak that too together
 

What's the average in India. Shoaib 35. 

Waqar 55? Was it can't remember. 

 

 

[Jay]

1 minute ago, Baji-Rao said:

yeh sure buddy lets take 10 match sample of foreign bowler vs them to homegrown bowlers who have lived their life on that pitch bowling.

The point is, other country's ATG bowlers will bring more impact around any part they play in over India's who have no option but to resort to tailor made home pitches for relevance

Tailor made is what sena countries do though? You haven't seen atg india attack play together. 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

yeh sure buddy lets take 10 match sample of foreign bowler vs them to homegrown bowlers who have lived their life on that pitch bowling.

The point is, other country's ATG bowlers will bring more impact around any part they play in over India's who have no option but to resort to tailor made home pitches for relevance

Sena pitches are conudicve to the strengths of sena nations. You have to compare their stats in Asia to have an idea of their abilities. Won't be much different to ATgs of india or pork munchers stats In sena. 

[Jay]

Just now, Baji-Rao said:

"sachin used to play akram and shoaib bro, what kohli play bro?!, GOD bat against best bowler of history not poor quality omgggggg legenddd!"

Bowling is far better now compared o the overrated 90s era where games were rigged, match fixing was pervasive in the world of cricket and technology was poor. Biased unpires. No drs etc. 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

 

actually i did in the WTC 

One off Bad game in conditions that is tailored to n.z ATg side. Why not play in australia? 

[zen]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

You haven't seen them play together though. I haven't seen the so called world class ATgs do well in India. Being good everywhere is a requisite to be an ATG. Except McGrath, steyn not many have done well. Donald. Definitely no kiwi. No Englishman unless you count the ancient times when India dint even take cricket seriously. 

 

Post the ATg sides you think are better. Let's compare. 

 

Most of your points have been addressed including the relatively high impact of world ATG bowlers at their respective peak playing together for many of the other teams  ... Rather than spending time here why not study cricket to find out that Hadlee picked up 18 wkts in Ind? Marshall has tons of wkts? 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by zen

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

 

actually i did in the WTC 

No srinath and no kapil. Cute baby, maybe it's time to go back to your job? Sleeper cell work is waiting for you. 

[Jay]

Just now, zen said:

 

Most of your points have been addressed including the point that world class ATG bowlers  ... Rather than spending time here why not study cricket to find out that Hadlee picked up 18 wkts in Ind? Marshall has tons of wkts? 

 

 

Yes and I already put west Indies on top. 

Hadlee picked up wickets vs who? Did they win in India?don't recall them drawing even with hadlee.