Dispelling the last great Pakistani myth: that they have historically been a better team than India

[Dil Dil India]

5 hours ago, deathmonger said:

in 2-3 years that W/L ratio will change since PAk gets whitewashed away and keeps losing at home ad cant even defeat the likes of SL/WI.

It has already changed like crazy. I think until the 2000s maybe there was an argument to be made that Pak were the better test side. They had a considerably better WL ratio I think and India hadnt won their 2 test series in aus or the many test maces. Even I was shocked to see the current numbers so I can understand people still struggling to come to terms with reality. It is like Federer's GS record...he was ahead all these years and it is hard to accept that Nadal now has more...and it seemed to happen out of the blue...same with Pak vs Ind.

[deathmonger]

15 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

It has already changed like crazy. I think until the 2000s maybe there was an argument to be made that Pak were the better test side. They had a considerably better WL ratio I think and India hadnt won their 2 test series in aus or the many test maces. Even I was shocked to see the current numbers so I can understand people still struggling to come to terms with reality. It is like Federer's GS record...he was ahead all these years and it is hard to accept that Nadal now has more...and it seemed to happen out of the blue...same with Pak vs Ind.

I mean ODI has already happened. Test will happen soon.

[Dil Dil India]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

I mean ODI has already happened. Test will happen soon.

Only thing is Pak play minnows a lot. I have to double check but I think our record is already better if you remove Zimbabwe and BD. And as they have now started playing at home they have more of an advantage because teams will still not be able to send full strength teams. 

 

We could have pulled even further away if we hadnt let the RSA series slip after being 1-0 up.

 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Sharjah-Harjah

[Lone Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Very carefully u forgot about the twin thrashings in Asia Cup 2018....  Lahori logic..  Sialkotia toh nahi tu

[Chakdephatte]

18 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Your username tells me everything I need to know.

 

Two wins at home and you are suddenly over the moon.

[Sharjah-Harjah]

4 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

 

Your username tells me everything I need to know.

 

Two wins at home and you are suddenly over the moon.

 Sharjah or Dubai is not in Pakistan.

Its a neutral venue. 
Pakistani youth/players don’t play their domestic cricket in UAE. Only in ICF is UAE considered Pakistan’s “home advantage”. 
 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Very carefully u forgot about the twin thrashings in Asia Cup 2018....  Lahori logic..  Sialkotia toh nahi tu

Hahaha neither, Karachi logic here 

I am not disagreeing that India team was better on paper and in the ground in 2010s. Overall though, since 2000, the results are comparable based on the stats I’ve seen floated around.

[deathmonger]

4 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

your humble opinion is wrong.

 

Since 2007 India-Pak W/L ratio is 2/1 - https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;opposition=7;spanmin1=01+Jan+2007;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

So not at all comparable.

 

Since 2017, it is 6-3 with a W/L ratio of 2/1 so no "tide is turning".

 

 

 

 

[deathmonger]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:59 AM, ImranKhanGreatest said:

To respond to your Bombay pov bhaji logic.... Going by the win loss ratio and seeing how Pakistan has started beating you and challenging you consistently in last couple of years and how your future cricketers look nothing great after Virat, and knowing we only play in major tournaments.... I think it could take you a century more to beat the overall head to head record :) 

 

Whether you call it Coca-Cola Cup, or pav bhaji cup or daal roti saabji cup, the point is Pakistan was a better team and dominated India throughout those decades until late 90s. Even after that Pakistan has given a good fight and kept winning numerous games/cups in bilateral series and random tournament. 

challenging consistently? - it's 2-2 in 4 t20s.

 

And Indian future cricketers are world class. Four u19 finals since 2016 with 2 wins.

 

Rishabh Pant's gabba knock is better than any knock by a Pakistani batsman in the history of cricket. Pakistan is not even drawing a match in Australia in a century let alone winning one :).

Washington Sundar, Gill etc are better than Pakistani tullas like Haider Ali etc.

 

Lol at "domination" and "good fight"

 

Pakistan's w/L ratio with India in 1980s - 2.3

1990s - 1.555

 

India W/L ratio against Pak in 2010s - 3

 

2.3 and 1.555 are dominating but 3 is giving a good fight. Lahori logic at it's finest.

[deathmonger]

17 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Hahaha neither, Karachi logic here 

I am not disagreeing that India team was better on paper and in the ground in 2010s. Overall though, since 2000, the results are comparable based on the stats I’ve seen floated around.

2010s India-Pak W/L ratio is 3, better than Pak in 80s or 90s.

 

You are contradicting yourself here. You are mentioning India was better in 2010s and then quote since 2000.

2000s has three phases -

1. Early 2000s when Wasim Waqar Anwar were still there. Pakistan was still better. Ended in the 03 WC when Sachin ended the team singlehandedly and made the Pakistani greats retire.
2. 2003-07 - Inzamam era. Similar W/L ratio although India won more series with Paksitan winning a few one offs.
3. 2007 - Dhoni era. This is when domination starts and continues to present day.

[deathmonger]

26 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

 Sharjah or Dubai is not in Pakistan.

Its a neutral venue. 
Pakistani youth/players don’t play their domestic cricket in UAE. Only in ICF is UAE considered Pakistan’s “home advantage”. 
 

Considering the amount of Pakistani bonded labour, UAE is home for Paxitan.

 

Beware, Babar and Shaheen etc might illegally immigrate and drive cabs in the UAE or maybe open "Indian" restaurants like Paxis do.

Edited November 7, 2022 by deathmonger

[deathmonger]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:59 PM, Dil Dil India said:

Only thing is Pak play minnows a lot. I have to double check but I think our record is already better if you remove Zimbabwe and BD. And as they have now started playing at home they have more of an advantage because teams will still not be able to send full strength teams. 

 

We could have pulled even further away if we hadnt let the RSA series slip after being 1-0 up.

 

1 round of SENA tours for Pakistan where they will get whitewashed and it's over for them.

 

I mean they even lose at home to SENA teams.

[Dil Dil India]

4 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Ok, you seem like a reasonable poster so I'll just reiterate:

 

1. Pak have a (marginally) better h2h record overall. No denying this well done to them. India have more trophies by far and a better h2h in the big games. Heart of hearts most Pak fans would likely swap.

 

2. India have been the better odi and test side since 2000 and by far since 2010. I don't include t20 because it is more unpredictable but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that over a series India would have had the better of Pak in Odis and tests in the last 12 years by about a 7-3 margin in Odis and 6-4 margin in tests. The fact that they rarely play each other outside of world tournaments now has benefitted Pak. Take odis since 2017 for example where pak has supposedly turned a page against India: they have one win in CT 2017 F vs India's CT 2017 group win, 2 Asia Cup games 2018 and 2019 wc.

[ImranKhanGreatest]

3 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Considering the amount of Pakistani bonded labour, UAE is home for Paxitan.

 

Beware, Babar and Shaheen etc might illegally immigrate and drive cabs in the UAE or maybe open "Indian" restaurants like Paxis do.

Haha the amount of garbage against Pakistan I read on this forum doesn't surprise me one bit. You folks literally talk from your behind and your hatred for Pakistan has drove your nation insane as you behave exactly like this all across social media, your media and at government level. 

 

It's the "Indian labor" which makes up the most amount of people in UAE, literally majority of labour class there are all mostly Indians, same goes for the rest of gulf Muslim countries where they occupy majority of labour force, since they earn dirt in India, so they go to gulf countries in millions to earn bread and butter (this is not to belittle anyone as they all are hardworking there, but your post types deserve a reality check).

 

As for resturants, none of Pakistani open any "Endian" restaurant. You must have read that from your Godi University of WhatsApp. Many Pakistani resturants are there where Pakistani take pride in Pakistani food, and many Indians equally enjoy eating out there. 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

4 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Considering the amount of Pakistani bonded labour, UAE is home for Paxitan.

 

Beware, Babar and Shaheen etc might illegally immigrate and drive cabs in the UAE or maybe open "Indian" restaurants like Paxis do.

You were actually doing well with insightful data and analysis until you made this comment. So I am gonna tune you out :)  

[Sharjah-Harjah]

3 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

Ok, you seem like a reasonable poster so I'll just reiterate:

 

1. Pak have a (marginally) better h2h record overall. No denying this well done to them. India have more trophies by far and a better h2h in the big games. Heart of hearts most Pak fans would likely swap.

 

2. India have been the better odi and test side since 2000 and by far since 2010. I don't include t20 because it is more unpredictable but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that over a series India would have had the better of Pak in Odis and tests in the last 12 years by about a 7-3 margin in Odis and 6-4 margin in tests. The fact that they rarely play each other outside of world tournaments now has benefitted Pak. Take odis since 2017 for example where pak has supposedly turned a page against India: they have one win in CT 2017 F vs India's CT 2017 group win, 2 Asia Cup games 2018 and 2019 wc.

On 1) You are right. I would swap in a heartbeat haha

On 2) I don’t disagree on this. 
From 2007, Pak struggled with no home cricket and India saw influx of great talent from IPL. 
PSL started from 2016, and things are improving since. Rauf, Shaheen, Haris, Shadab, and many others were found in PSL. 

 

[ImranKhanGreatest]

4 hours ago, deathmonger said:

challenging consistently? - it's 2-2 in 4 t20s.

 

And Indian future cricketers are world class. Four u19 finals since 2016 with 2 wins.

 

Rishabh Pant's gabba knock is better than any knock by a Pakistani batsman in the history of cricket. Pakistan is not even drawing a match in Australia in a century let alone winning one :).

Washington Sundar, Gill etc are better than Pakistani tullas like Haider Ali etc.

 

Lol at "domination" and "good fight"

 

Pakistan's w/L ratio with India in 1980s - 2.3

1990s - 1.555

 

India W/L ratio against Pak in 2010s - 3

 

2.3 and 1.555 are dominating but 3 is giving a good fight. Lahori logic at it's finest.

Lol at the ratios. Stats got so bad that India completely stopped playing Pakistan at a certain place in 90s because according to them games were fixed there, where Pakistan used to win day in and day out. Never made sense if there was so much fixing then howcome India kept losing there lol. Just an excuse to stop all those one sided affair. 

 

Pakistan has been a better team overall since the birth of both countries in 1947, hence better head to head stats. Funny how you guys always refer to Australia when we are simply talking about head to head to save some face. Is there no other country that plays cricket lol? 

 

It's understandable that after all the jashans here of Pakistan heading to the airport early, its hard for you seeing Pakistan in the semi-finals. Knowing Pakistan has been the strongest T20 side since invention of T20 with highest W/L ratio, they were bound to make it as they have also made the most amount of T20 semi-final WC appearance :) 

[Dil Dil India]

2 hours ago, ImranKhanGreatest said:

Lol at the ratios. Stats got so bad that India completely stopped playing Pakistan at a certain place in 90s because according to them games were fixed there, where Pakistan used to win day in and day out. Never made sense if there was so much fixing then howcome India kept losing there lol. Just an excuse to stop all those one sided affair. 

 

Pakistan has been a better team overall since the birth of both countries in 1947, hence better head to head stats. Funny how you guys always refer to Australia when we are simply talking about head to head to save some face. Is there no other country that plays cricket lol? 

 

It's understandable that after all the jashans here of Pakistan heading to the airport early, its hard for you seeing Pakistan in the semi-finals. Knowing Pakistan has been the strongest T20 side since invention of T20 with highest W/L ratio, they were bound to make it as they have also made the most amount of T20 semi-final WC appearance :) 

 

Bolded line is false. 

 

If pak has been better why have you won less wcs, less cts less Asia cups less in tests?

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, ImranKhanGreatest said:

Lol at the ratios. Stats got so bad that India completely stopped playing Pakistan at a certain place in 90s because according to them games were fixed there, where Pakistan used to win day in and day out. Never made sense if there was so much fixing then howcome India kept losing there lol. Just an excuse to stop all those one sided affair. 

 

Pakistan has been a better team overall since the birth of both countries in 1947, hence better head to head stats. Funny how you guys always refer to Australia when we are simply talking about head to head to save some face. Is there no other country that plays cricket lol? 

 

It's understandable that after all the jashans here of Pakistan heading to the airport early, its hard for you seeing Pakistan in the semi-finals. Knowing Pakistan has been the strongest T20 side since invention of T20 with highest W/L ratio, they were bound to make it as they have also made the most amount of T20 semi-final WC appearance :) 

 

India has a higher w/l ratio than paxtan lol