Dispelling the last great Pakistani myth: that they have historically been a better team than India

[Dil Dil India]

The constant "we have a better record than you historically" from our neighbours(not counting trolls like BVB and "its" ilk) is not just annoying but also patently false. It is time to dispel this myth once and for all:

 

Pakistan have an 88-73 HTH edge against India across formats, This translates to a 54-46 advantage in percentage terms, i.e. Pakistan have historically won 5.4 out of every 10 matches vs India. And this is where the "superiority ends". Here is a breakdown:

 

1. Head-to-head

 

As stated above, Pak do have a slight edge across formats historically (primarily due to us barely playing any matches outside tournaments in the last 15 years or so when we have been a comfortably better side). However, India have a 13-1 (!!!) edge in WCs and 15-4 edge in ICC tournaments in general. To sum up:

 

* Pakistan have a 54% winning record vs India overall.

* in the biggest matches (i.e WCs), India have a 93% winning record vs Pakistan. This includes 3 WC knockout games => 2 of which India went on to win. This more than makes up for the slight edge that Pak have in Kitply, Coca Cola, Sharjah and Pav Bhaji cups.

* to keep our neighbours happy, let us also include Champions Trophy records => India's HTH edge in ICC tournaments is 15-4, a 79% winning record vs Pakistan.

 

2. Trophies

 

The point of cricket and sport in general is to win trophies. 

 

* World Cups => India 2, Pakistan 1 

* ICC Champions Trophy => India 2, Pakistan 1

* T20 World Cup => India 1, Pakistan 1

 

In all of the above cases, India did it well before Pakistan and are comfortably ahead. Since a lot of greenbros were shouting over rooftops about Asia Cup last month (prior to Rizzy screwing them over vs SL):

 

* Asia Cups => India 7, Pakistan 2

 

3. Test Cricket

 

Now greenbros will rightly or wrongly switch to "oh but test cricket is the best form of the game" => Ok:

 

India have won series in more countries. Pakistan couldn't even win a series in WI until fairly recently. India have held the test mace and the number 1 ranking for longer than Rizwan and Babar have been active as professional players. It is an absolute no contest.

 

 

India really missed a trick by stopping bilateral series with these plonkers; seeing Bumrah and Shami steaming in on a spicy track vs Zimbabar and UAEwan would have been hilarious.

 

[zen]

Who is BVB? 

[Dil Dil India]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

Who is BVB? 

Biggest troll, low IQ plonker that thinks it's funny.

[Dil Dil India]

31 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

The constant "we have a better record than you historically" from our neighbours(not counting trolls like BVB and "its" ilk) is not just annoying but also patently false. It is time to dispel this myth once and for all:

 

Pakistan have an 88-73 HTH edge against India across formats, This translates to a 54-46 advantage in percentage terms, i.e. Pakistan have historically won 5.4 out of every 10 matches vs India. And this is where the "superiority ends". Here is a breakdown:

 

1. Head-to-head

 

As stated above, Pak do have a slight edge across formats historically (primarily due to us barely playing any matches outside tournaments in the last 15 years or so when we have been a comfortably better side). However, India have a 13-1 (!!!) edge in WCs and 15-4 edge in ICC tournaments in general. To sum up:

 

* Pakistan have a 54% winning record vs India overall.

* in the biggest matches (i.e WCs), India have a 93% winning record vs Pakistan. This includes 3 WC knockout games => 2 of which India went on to win. This more than makes up for the slight edge that Pak have in Kitply, Coca Cola, Sharjah and Pav Bhaji cups.

* to keep our neighbours happy, let us also include Champions Trophy records => India's HTH edge in ICC tournaments is 15-4, a 79% winning record vs Pakistan.

 

2. Trophies

 

The point of cricket and sport in general is to win trophies. 

 

* World Cups => India 2, Pakistan 1 

* ICC Champions Trophy => India 2, Pakistan 1

* T20 World Cup => India 1, Pakistan 1

 

In all of the above cases, India did it well before Pakistan and are comfortably ahead. Since a lot of greenbros were shouting over rooftops about Asia Cup last month (prior to Rizzy screwing them over vs SL):

 

* Asia Cups => India 7, Pakistan 2

 

3. Test Cricket

 

Now greenbros will rightly or wrongly switch to "oh but test cricket is the best form of the game" => Ok:

 

India have won series in more countries. Pakistan couldn't even win a series in WI until fairly recently. India have held the test mace and the number 1 ranking for longer than Rizwan and Babar have been active as professional players. It is an absolute no contest.

 

 

India really missed a trick by stopping bilateral series with these plonkers; seeing Bumrah and Shami steaming in on a spicy track vs Zimbabar and UAEwan would have been hilarious.

 

@Iconoclast@ImranKhanGreatest any views/ Lahori logic to counter this? @the don

Edited October 28, 2022 by Dil Dil India

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Biggest troll, low IQ plonker that thinks it's funny.

Ok, I have not seen anyone with BVB username here. Must be an acronym.

 

Is he a Pakistani poster? I usually skip their posts. 

[Dil Dil India]

Just now, zen said:

Ok, I have not seen anyone with BVB username here. Must be an acronym.

 

Is he a Pakistani poster? I usually skip their posts. 

Definitely Indian poster which is what makes it sad and funny. Yes, it is an acronym, didn't want to give it more traction that it deserves.

[zen]

Just now, Dil Dil India said:

Definitely Indian poster which is what makes it sad and funny. Yes, it is an acronym, didn't want to give it more traction that it deserves.

I haven’t seen any BVB here (bat versus ball) … Must be some different forum 

[Dil Dil India]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

I haven’t seen any BVB here (bat versus ball) … Must be some different forum 

Indeed but the troll is also most likely here under a different alias. Anyway moving on... :) 

[the don]

Ohhh acha bhai india has historically been the best /end thread.

 

itni insecurity about a team that is virtually out of the tournament. Relax kero , past defeats are not your fault.Enjoy the game.

[straighttalk]

The 90s pak team was far superior and maybe even early 2000...last 15 years India were superior 

[Frustrated]

For those wondering who is BVB.   It's Bhag Viru Bhag on PP.   

[neel roy]

The Pakistan team which visited india in 2005 was the last gun team. Though in LOI format their best team was the one which won the t20 wcup where afridi was reallly good. The 2017 CT still hurts me. A game we should have won.. 

[deathmonger]

ind has a higher w/l ratio in both odis and t20s. tests will be in the next 2-3 years (ind gets shafted cause of pre independence years).

[Prabhdeep Singh]

Better indicator would be to check importance of match, I.E. Finals, Semi Finals, Quarter Finals & Series Deciders:

 

Important India Wins:

 

1. ODI-Pakistan tour of India 2ND ODI-Jaipur 1983
2. ODI-Rothmans Asia Cup 3RD ODI-Sharjah 1984 
3. ODI-Benson & Hedges World Championship of Cricket Final-Melbourne1985
4. ODI-Wills Asia Cup 5TH ODI-Dhaka 1988
5. ODI-Wills World Cup QF-Bengaluru 1996
6. ODI-Silver Jubilee Independence Cup 3RD Final-Dhaka 1998 
7. TEST-Pakistan tour of India 2ND TEST-Delhi 1999
8. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 5TH ODI-Lahore 2004
9. TEST-India tour of Pakistan 3RD TEST-Rawalpindi 2004
10. ODI-India tour of United Arab Emirates 2ND ODI-Abu Dhabi 2006
11. T20-ICC World Twenty20 Final-Johannesburg 2007
12. ODI-ICC Cricket World Cup SF-Mohali 2011
13. T20-Pakistan tour of India 2ND T20-Ahmedabad 2012

 

Important Pakistan Wins:

 

1. TEST-India tour of Pakistan 3RD TEST-1978 Karachi
2. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 3RD ODI-1978 Sahiwal
3. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 4TH ODI-1983 Karachi
4. ODI-Austral-Asia Cup Final-Sharjah 1986
5. TEST-Pakistan tour of India 5TH TEST-Bengaluru 1987
6. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 4TH ODI-Lahore 1989
7. ODI-Wills Trophy Final-Sharjah 1991
8. ODI-Pepsi Austral-Asia Cup Final-1994
9. ODI-Pakistan tour of Canada 5TH ODI-Toronto 1996
10. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 3RD ODI-Lahore 1997
11. ODI-Pepsi Cup Final-Bengaluru 1999
12. ODI-Coca-Cola Cup Final-Sharjah 1999
13. TEST-Pakistan tour of India 3RD TEST-Bengaluru 2005
14. ODI-Pakistan tour of India 6TH ODI-Delhi 2005
15. TEST-India tour of Pakistan 3RD TEST-Karachi 2006
16. ODI-Kitply Cup Final-Mirpur 2008
17. ODI-ICC Champions Trophy Final-Oval 2017

 

I have tried to be impartial and came up with the above, however if add all ICC matches then there will be no contest.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Prabhdeep Singh

[zen]

In the 2000s, I was more concerned about such Ind v Pak things. Post 2011 WC, I haven't much cared about which team is better, which is allowed me to appreciate the Pak team of 1986 (say from when Miandad hit that last ball 6 to win Pak the game) to 1996 (say to the QF versus India where, ironically, Miandad lost his side the game) period. It had tons of x-factor, where you could not relax till the game was over. 

 

In 1987, it drew a test series in WI (almost a rare event) ... @Harsh Thakor could argue that Pak deserved to win it 

In 1987, it won a test series in Ind 

In 1989, it won the Nehru Cup 

In 1992, it won the world cup (coined the cornered Markhors) 

 

While its bowling attack was fantastic, its lower middle order could come and hit 6s to win games 

 

Today, Pak cricket is competitive but a shadow of its former self 

[Majestic]

Pakistan was a better team mostly in 1980s and 1990s. We played them most in 80s and that's where our W/L gets a hit. In 2000s and 2010s, we haven't played them enough otherwise that record would have been non existent for them by now.

 

Anyways, World cups is where we have bossed them always and that makes a huge difference.

 

In bilaterals, South Africa have bossed most of the teams too,they probably have top 2-3 win loss ratio but in tournaments when they go vs Australia or other top teams, we know what happens and that's where their standings also hurt.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I'd say India is a better Test & T20 team than Pak historically. 

Counting the past record I only give edge to Pak wrt to Ind in ODIs. 

[Dil Dil India]

8 hours ago, the don said:

Ohhh acha bhai india has historically been the best /end thread.

 

itni insecurity about a team that is virtually out of the tournament. Relax kero , past defeats are not your fault.Enjoy the game.

Jaani debate what is said, dont take the easy way out. Kis baat ki insecurity? Bhoobie, Arshdeep aur Kele ki team se haar gayi Pakistan....insecure puri Pak awam ko hona chahiye. 

[Dil Dil India]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I'd say India is a better Test & T20 team than Pak historically. 

Counting the past record I only give edge to Pak wrt to Ind in ODIs. 

So that means you would take Pak's ODI record over ours? A marginal difference in overall HTH for 1 WC, 1 CT (and 5 Asia Cups) less and a terrible hth record in ICC tournaments?

[Dil Dil India]

6 hours ago, Prabhdeep Singh said:

Better indicator would be to check importance of match, I.E. Finals, Semi Finals, Quarter Finals & Series Deciders:

 

Important India Wins:

 

1. ODI-Pakistan tour of India 2ND ODI-Jaipur 1983
2. ODI-Rothmans Asia Cup 3RD ODI-Sharjah 1984 
3. ODI-Benson & Hedges World Championship of Cricket Final-Melbourne1985
4. ODI-Wills Asia Cup 5TH ODI-Dhaka 1988
5. ODI-Wills World Cup QF-Bengaluru 1996
6. ODI-Silver Jubilee Independence Cup 3RD Final-Dhaka 1998 
7. TEST-Pakistan tour of India 2ND TEST-Delhi 1999
8. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 5TH ODI-Lahore 2004
9. TEST-India tour of Pakistan 3RD TEST-Rawalpindi 2004
10. ODI-India tour of United Arab Emirates 2ND ODI-Abu Dhabi 2006
11. T20-ICC World Twenty20 Final-Johannesburg 2007
12. ODI-ICC Cricket World Cup SF-Mohali 2011
13. T20-Pakistan tour of India 2ND T20-Ahmedabad 2012

 

Important Pakistan Wins:

 

1. TEST-India tour of Pakistan 3RD TEST-1978 Karachi
2. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 3RD ODI-1978 Sahiwal
3. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 4TH ODI-1983 Karachi
4. ODI-Austral-Asia Cup Final-Sharjah 1986
5. TEST-Pakistan tour of India 5TH TEST-Bengaluru 1987
6. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 4TH ODI-Lahore 1989
7. ODI-Wills Trophy Final-Sharjah 1991
8. ODI-Pepsi Austral-Asia Cup Final-1994
9. ODI-Pakistan tour of Canada 5TH ODI-Toronto 1996
10. ODI-India tour of Pakistan 3RD ODI-Lahore 1997
11. ODI-Pepsi Cup Final-Bengaluru 1999
12. ODI-Coca-Cola Cup Final-Sharjah 1999
13. TEST-Pakistan tour of India 3RD TEST-Bengaluru 2005
14. ODI-Pakistan tour of India 6TH ODI-Delhi 2005
15. TEST-India tour of Pakistan 3RD TEST-Karachi 2006
16. ODI-Kitply Cup Final-Mirpur 2008
17. ODI-ICC Champions Trophy Final-Oval 2017

 

I have tried to be impartial and came up with the above, however if add all ICC matches then there will be no contest.

 

Full marks for the effort but there's no way you can imply that coca cola and pepsi cup wins make up for WC semis lol. They are not even close to being the same.