India's richest 1% holds 40% of wealth; inequality rising since 2000s:

[mishra]

40 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

FDI is reluctant to come when Walmart, Amazon and others are quashed to protect cronies so their businesses are safe.

 

This is why China is down now. They tried for decades to protect their home grown companies to prevent the likes of Google, Apple and others to dominate there.

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/story/mukesh-ambani-vs-amazon-how-reliance-is-winning-game-of-thrones-in-future-retail-dispute-1924108-2022-03-11

 

Stuff like this is exactly the root cause of the issue.

 

Under fair capitalist and democratic legal system, something like this should never happen.

 

 

First, I dont care if shops in India are owned by Future Wall mart Flipcart Amzon or individual businesses apart from one basic fact that these Enterprises are Supposed to pay more to gvmnt in revenues which helps gvmnt to fund policies for Poor (However it got all messed up and now gvmnt realised that they dont gain anything by bringing Star bucks or Wallmart as Accountant ensure they have no tax liabilty). In above case Amzon outsmarted Futures by putting a legal clause that you cant sell urself to Reliance. Reliance used another legal mechanism of takeover.  Who cares as neither will pay any tax.

 

What we should care is investment in manufacturing, defence,infra,Tech and banking as the benefits of these investments are felt by Generations to come.

 

Again emigration is because someone is happy to hire the same Indian and give them better life who would be jobless/low paid and/or struggling in India with mostlikely less net productivity in course of his life

Edited March 28 by mishra

[Muloghonto]

15 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

This is what you forget..

 

2013 Average $1 US Dollar = 58 rupees.

 

Now $83.

 

That alone is devaluation of currency by 30%

 

So the GDP of 4 trillion is in reality due to currency devaluation is actually 2.8 trillion.

 

Now let's talk about inflation...

 

Over the past decade until 2022, consumer price inflation in India averaged 5.5%, which was above the Asia-Pacific's regional average of 2.1%.

 

So on a compounded annual basis from 2013 to now... No matter who the government was, the Indian economy would have been similarly positioned.

 

With China being a closed economy, it was bound to happen that FDI would enter India.

 

The problem here is PURPOSELY eliminating Walmart, Amazon and similar players in order to protect cronies across so many industries so monopolies can thrive which hurts consumer choice. And ZERO value add sectors encouraged to allow for exports because it would hurt cronies.

 

Again, perfectly fine if your population is the size of a Norway. There is only so much growth with Oyo (AirBNB clone), Swiggy (doordash clone), Ola (uber clone) etc.

 

Need the next Samsung, Nvidia, Apple or at least something like an OpenAI that is home grown. If a French company like Mistral can do great things, nothing is stopping India but there never will because of brain drain of talent in these areas as people know there's no hope of succeeding when cronyism is entrenched.

 

Until the next Mark Zuckerberg type entrepreneur becomes richest man/woman in India, no innovator will want stay here especially when they see rampant cronyism and nepotism. It's a fact and the emigration numbers don't lie.

 

I asked you a question. I expect an answer. What is the semiconductor sector investment in India over the last 3 years ? 

Walmart & Amazon do deserve protection from, as they are foreign companies with overpowered logistics that will wreck home companies ability to compete. They do the same against our pharma industry for the same reason, so explain why we shouldnt do the same. 

 

[BlueBlood]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

First, I dont care if shops in India are owned by Future Wall mart Flipcart Amzon or individual businesses apart from one basic fact that these Enterprises are Supposed to pay more to gvmnt in revenues which helps gvmnt to fund policies for Poor (However it got all messed up and now gvmnt realised that they dont gain anything by bringing Star bucks or Wallmart as Accountant ensure they have no tax liabilty). In above case Amzon outsmarted Futures by putting a legal clause that you cant sell urself to Reliance. Reliance used another legal mechanism of takeover.  Who cares as neither will pay any tax.

 

What we should care is investment in manufacturing, defence,infra,Tech and banking as the benefits of these investments are felt by Generations to come.

 

Again emigration is because someone is happy to hire the same Indian and give them better life who would be jobless/low paid and/or struggling in India with mostlikely less net productivity in course of his life

You don't care. Average Indian doesn't care.

 

But you want more jobs through FDI.

 

Everything is interlinked.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, BlueBlood said:

You don't care. Average Indian doesn't care.

 

But you want more jobs through FDI.

 

Everything is interlinked.

 

answer my questions. Why are you dodging them ? 

 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, BlueBlood said:

You don't care. Average Indian doesn't care.

 

But you want more jobs through FDI.

 

Everything is interlinked.

If you wish that  reliance will loose against amazon in home turf , good luck with that

 

Don’t understand logic and linkages why u think reliance loosing legal battle to Bezos helps in wealth distribution 

Edited March 28 by mishra

[BlueBlood]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

If you wish that  reliance will loose against amazon in home turf , good luck with that

 

Don’t understand logic and linkages why u think reliance loosing legal battle to Bezos helps in wealth distribution 

 

Dude, use some common sense for once...

 

Reliance came in KNOWING that Amazon had a contract where they had a first right of refusal.

 

They also knew that by twisting the laws they can get what they want as they have full backing of the central government.

 

This is why they got a sweet heart deal that no other business whether Indian or outside would get. This is what we call crony capitalism, a text book example.

 

Kishore Biyani from Big Bazaar left with almost nothing in this deal after the whole court battles. So it's not like US vs. India either. Reliance took home everything and India lost Amazon's investment. Less competition means higher prices and price gouging.

 

What this does is, in the future a lot of big foreign investors will shy away from investing in Indian businesses or innovative industries. This has direct co-relation with lack of jobs for youth as the biggest hiring occurs from multinational companies.

 

This is what happened with PayTM and Chinese investors. Same thing with the whole Walmart saga. 

 

You can be happy driving the "colonialists" away on one hand but want more FDI to make investments in India on the other. It's laughably illogical.

 

This is why even if Modi announces $1 Trillion plan, it will not help when the type of players who are needed are afraid to invest due to being burned before.

 

Look at semiconductor industry, Malaysia got it from Intel over India. This is the ground reality. It's not like we lack the money or resources, it's just investors are scared of losing their shirt like with Byjus, PayTM, Big Bazaar and so many other examples. You think word doesn't spread in the international legal circles after what happened to Amazon and Walmart?

[mishra]

10 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Dude, use some common sense for once...

 

Reliance came in KNOWING that Amazon had a contract where they had a first right of refusal.

 

They also knew that by twisting the laws they can get what they want as they have full backing of the central government.

 

This is why they got a sweet heart deal that no other business whether Indian or outside would get. This is what we call crony capitalism, a text book example.

 

Kishore Biyani from Big Bazaar left with almost nothing in this deal after the whole court battles. So it's not like US vs. India either. Reliance took home everything and India lost Amazon's investment. Less competition means higher prices and price gouging.

 

What this does is, in the future a lot of big foreign investors will shy away from investing in Indian businesses or innovative industries. This has direct co-relation with lack of jobs for youth as the biggest hiring occurs from multinational companies.

 

This is what happened with PayTM and Chinese investors. Same thing with the whole Walmart saga. 

 

You can be happy driving the "colonialists" away on one hand but want more FDI to make investments in India on the other. It's laughably illogical.

 

This is why even if Modi announces $1 Trillion plan, it will not help when the type of players who are needed are afraid to invest due to being burned before.

 

Look at semiconductor industry, Malaysia got it from Intel over India. This is the ground reality. It's not like we lack the money or resources, it's just investors are scared of losing their shirt like with Byjus, PayTM, Big Bazaar and so many other examples. You think word doesn't spread in the international legal circles after what happened to Amazon and Walmart?

Again, How a shop if owned by Bezos, but not by Ambani helps in wealth distribution?

 

Secondly, To a normal person, If Bezoshad  put a legal clause with Future that don’t sell the shops to Ambani clearly meant something fishy. Ambanis figured out legal solution based on their own experience in India

 

Thirdly, check FDI inflow rate, before you conclude that this case deterred investors.

 

Finally, Holistic perspective, India has limited landmass. Indian leadership should be very careful about sectors they want investment in, India can not live in a poltlutin gas chamber simply because it decided to manufacture anything and everything 

 

 

 

Edited March 29 by mishra

[BlueBlood]

13 hours ago, mishra said:

Again, How a shop if owned by Bezos, but not by Ambani helps in wealth distribution?

 

Secondly, To a normal person, If Bezoshad  put a legal clause with Future that don’t sell the shops to Ambani clearly meant something fishy. Ambanis figured out legal solution based on their own experience in India

 

Thirdly, check FDI inflow rate, before you conclude that this case deterred investors.

 

Finally, Holistic perspective, India has limited landmass. Indian leadership should be very careful about sectors they want investment in, India can not live in a poltlutin gas chamber simply because it decided to manufacture anything and everything 

 

 

 

FDI inflow currently is fully in industries that serve Indian consumer. Not export oriented industries.

 

Basically in the same sectors that are not hyper growth considering they tap out once they hit a threshold. Kishore Biyani from Big Bazaar said in a recent interview he lost all his wealth because he expanded too much. He mentioned there are 20 million people in India with disposable income. The rest cannot afford even a mcdonald's meal let alone shopping in big bazaar.

 

This is why Byjus failed, Big Bazaar failed once they hit this threshold and wanted to expand beyond it. FDI is betting on this expansion of 20 million to grow to 40 million but that can only happen when more high paying jobs are there.

 

Right now, the only sector with this is the IT sector as it's the one that exports the most.

 

The #1 reason why Vietnam took over India in manufacturing specifically since 2019 is because the Chinese and Japanese companies could readily find talented people who could work on high tech manufacturing and could train them easily. This was impossible in India as this type of talent doesn't exist due to decades of mismanagement and laziness in government to not focus on proper education and training.

 

Think of it: Infosys has a massive training campus for IT graduates where they train for 1 year before they work on any projects. The lazy ones or inept ones get weeded out.

Something like this is needed for high tech manufacturing but government or even your "industrialists" don't want to waste money on this as it takes years.

 

In Mexico right now, people are getting paid $55 USD per hour for manufacturing line manager type positions. More than even European salaries. These type of jobs could be life changing for non-IT based people in India.

 

I just hate this chest thumping of how the current government is the greatest thing ever and India has become a developed country nonsense. It's simple, you either invest for the future with actual concrete planning like Vietnam, Mexico, Malaysia etc. or just accept the fact that it will never happen due to systemic corruption and laziness. Don't just make up fake facts that don't show ground reality.

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

FDI inflow currently is fully in industries that serve Indian consumer. Not export oriented industries.

 

False. The greatest improvement of Indian sectors since 2019 has been in manufacturing and thats where most of the FDIs are going. Again, citable. 

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

 

 

The #1 reason why Vietnam took over India in manufacturing specifically since 2019 is because the Chinese and Japanese companies could readily find talented people who could work on high tech manufacturing and could train them easily. This was impossible in India as this type of talent doesn't exist due to decades of mismanagement and laziness in government to not focus on proper education and training.

Only a fool thinks that vietnam has a higher talent pool for manufacturing than India. The investment flowed to Vietnam because vietnam ranked much higher in the ease of business rating, which is what most foreign firms care. Again, this is one category where India has improved tremendously under Modi, going from 120 rank to in the top 50. Which is why investment is now flowing in to the manufacturing sector. 

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

 

 

I just hate this chest thumping of how the current government is the greatest thing ever and India has become a developed country nonsense. It's simple, you either invest for the future with actual concrete planning like Vietnam, Mexico, Malaysia etc. or just accept the fact that it will never happen due to systemic corruption and laziness. Don't just make up fake facts that don't show ground reality.

Thats because you are full of false info and nonsense conclusions that are directly against the evidence. 

[BlueBlood]

15 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

False. The greatest improvement of Indian sectors since 2019 has been in manufacturing and thats where most of the FDIs are going. Again, citable. 

Only a fool thinks that vietnam has a higher talent pool for manufacturing than India. The investment flowed to Vietnam because vietnam ranked much higher in the ease of business rating, which is what most foreign firms care. Again, this is one category where India has improved tremendously under Modi, going from 120 rank to in the top 50. Which is why investment is now flowing in to the manufacturing sector. 

Thats because you are full of false info and nonsense conclusions that are directly against the evidence. 

You are a brainwashed bhakt with zero knowledge of what you are talking about. This is why it's a waste of time to even discuss with you as you have zero common sense to think logically as you have set your mind on one thing and will find information to suit your bias.

 

Read articles like this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-07/india-s-true-manufacturing-rival-is-vietnam-not-china?embedded-checkout=true

 

Brain dead policies like high import taxes, not planning ahead and making sure power doesn't concentrate in the hands of select corporates which will never allow innovative sectors to grow due to conflict of interest is why Vietnam flourished. It's not like they have Ambani, Adani and other crony capitalists protecting their turf. They started with a blank slate.

 

Now let's take the exports in 2010 Vietnam's exports were only 72 billion dollars while at that time India's exports were nearly 220 billion dollars, in 2019 India's exports only grew from 220 to 323 billion but in the same duration Vietnam's exports went from 72 till all the way up to 319 billion dollars which is almost as much as India. Vietnam's total merchandise exports grew at an annualized average rate of 18 % in the last 10 years as compared with India's 5% during the same period. Vietnam attained a trade surplus of 47 billion which again was a significant improvement over the trade deficit of 13 billion dollars in 2010. But for India forget surplus our trade deficit has increased from 130 to 156 billion dollars in the same duration, also the GDP per capita of India is $2100 which is less compared to Vietnam's $2700.

 

The reason why countries like Vietnam moved ahead of India was that they took care of the entire entry and operational part of the manufacturing along with the local bodies and the government. India has not done that yet. In Vietnam, when you have an industrial park, the park authorities actually take care of every type of clearance, and permission, that one needs. It is a literally one-stop shop. It is very efficient. India has still not understood the softer aspect of running a manufacturing hub, industrial park, and all. That is very crucial for efficiency and more importantly manufacturing is a training intensive industry. You need universities, schools and even coaching institutes to level up.

 

In the 2015 OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA)—which tests high school students in math, science, and other disciplines—Vietnam ranked 8th out of 72 participating countries, ahead of OECD countries such as Germany and Netherlands.

 

If you remove tier 1 cities with good private schools for rich and upper middle class, can you honestly claim the government schools and institutions have education of this high quality? How can you train someone who can't even have basic math and communication skills to manage heavy high tech machinery or semiconductor chips? A small mistake can cause cancer and other deadly diseases to the entire production line when dealing with semi conductor chips or things like batteries for electric cars.

 

Idiots can talk all day about what government is announcing but fundamentally you need a whole overhaul of the education, tax, business, duty etc. 

 

This was done for the IT sector in late 1990's and early 2000's. If it were not for the IT sector, India would be in worse shape than most African countries. 

 

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

You are a brainwashed bhakt with zero knowledge of what you are talking about. This is why it's a waste of time to even discuss with you as you have zero common sense to think logically as you have set your mind on one thing and will find information to suit your bias.

Listen brainwashed anti-bhakt, i asked you some simple questions. I expect answers and not more innainity about your ignorance. 

I asked you to tell me what is the investment amount dedicated to manufacturing in India over the last 4 years, how much investment has been committed for semi conductor fabrication and what % jump it represents.

 

These numbers will prove if you are right or wrong about this government doing nothing/doing not enough about bringing high value manufacturing into india. So put up the numbers or shut up. 

 

Vietnam doesn't have Adani & Ambani. That is true. What vietnam doesnt have, is rule of law and legal processes for industries. Its far easier to set up these slave-camp industrial parks if you have no semblance of rule of law and legal precedent, now show me a single democracy that does what vietnam does before you make up more innane nonsense.