Indian batsmen against spin in T20 internationals

[Vijy]

On 4/7/2024 at 5:17 PM, Ultimate_Game said:

Our achilles heels is any kind of spinner. We can't hit Maxwell. Last WT20 we couldn't hit Livingstone. We struggle against Zampa. Santner is a Murali-Warner combo against us 

Don't even know whether to laugh or cry looking at Kohli's stats above, and then he comes up with statements like "I've still got it". Got what exactly? Inability to win a tourney and perform when it really matters? Or the ability to score soft, impactless runs?

even in tests, we have been gifting tons of wkts to all kinds of randos. best example is ajaz patel's 10-fer

[putrevus]

Better question needs to be asked why are Indian spinners not so effective in whiteball cricket.

 

Kuldeep and Jadeja did nothing in World Cup in 2023

 

Axar and Ashwin did nothing either in 2022.

[vvvslaxman]

35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Better question needs to be asked why are Indian spinners not so effective in whiteball cricket.

 

Kuldeep and Jadeja did nothing in World Cup in 2023

 

Axar and Ashwin did nothing either in 2022.

 

They were not bowling to Indian batsmen. In the last RR vs RCB match washed up Ashwin bowled 15 balls to Kohli. Kohli scored only 14 runs of them. In the last 6 edition Ashwin has bowled 59 balls to Kohli. Kohli has scored 61 runs of them.

[vvvslaxman]

After Kohli's golden period in IPL

 

Last 6 edition stat of Kohli against Indian spinners

 

Kohli vs Axar 65 balls 69 runs  106.2 strike rate

Kohli vs Ashwin 59 balls 61 runs 103.2 strike rate

Kohli vs Kuldeep 53 balls 61 runs 115.1 strike rate

Kohli vs Jadeja  66 balls 66 runs 100. strike rate

 

his performance against known spinners

 

Kohli vs Narine  82 balls 98 runs 119.5 strike rate

Kohli vs Rashid  58 balls 70 runs 120 strike rate

 

 

 

[Sandz]

50 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

After Kohli's golden period in IPL

 

Last 6 edition stat of Kohli against Indian spinners

 

Kohli vs Axar 65 balls 69 runs  106.2 strike rate

Kohli vs Ashwin 59 balls 61 runs 103.2 strike rate

Kohli vs Kuldeep 53 balls 61 runs 115.1 strike rate

Kohli vs Jadeja  66 balls 66 runs 100. strike rate

 

his performance against known spinners

 

Kohli vs Narine  82 balls 98 runs 119.5 strike rate

Kohli vs Rashid  58 balls 70 runs 120 strike rate

 

 

 

He is playing ODI cricket in T20s.

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

They were not bowling to Indian batsmen. In the last RR vs RCB match washed up Ashwin bowled 15 balls to Kohli. Kohli scored only 14 runs of them. In the last 6 edition Ashwin has bowled 59 balls to Kohli. Kohli has scored 61 runs of them.

So what, how many times has he gotten out to the spinners.Plus is he the only batsman in the team.

 

Second, you mean to say Indian batsmen are worst against spinners then why even send them. That to me will be the most worrying aspect.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So what, how many times has he gotten out to the spinners.Plus is he the only batsman in the team.

 

Second, you mean to say Indian batsmen are worst against spinners then why even send them. That to me will be the most worrying aspect.

 

 

 

 

 

Hiis job is to score quicker agaiinst all type of bowling just lke others. If he can't score quckly against spin he has to score doubly quick againist other type of bowlers. This is not about targeting one batsman. This is about targeting all batsmen who harm India's chances one way or the other. Why do you think we want Jadeja out?  Rohit out? Rahul out? At this point entire batting line up can be shut down with simple match up strategy. 

[putrevus]

32 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Hiis job is to score quicker agaiinst all type of bowling just lke others. If he can't score quckly against spin he has to score doubly quick againist other type of bowlers. This is not about targeting one batsman. This is about targeting all batsmen who harm India's chances one way or the other. Why do you think we want Jadeja out?  Rohit out? Rahul out? At this point entire batting line up can be shut down with simple match up strategy. 

It is his job in batting is to make sure his team gets to decent toal batting first and over the line when chasing. .If he able to score at lower SR against spinners but do better against other types it is fine too. Put someone in who will take the burden off him against spinners.He has been the lone warrior in this team since 2014.When India wins a knockout match in t20 without him doing anything, we can revisit about his slow play.

 

They just need to add another leftie in the top order and this Indian lione up will do just fine.

 

Jadeja is a must in the team, when India has better player at number 7 we can talk about Jadeja too.

 

You can talk all you want, Jadeja and Kohli are still the best in their positions.

Edited April 10 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It is his job in batting is to make sure his team gets to decent toal batting first and over the line when chasing. .If he able to score at lower SR against spinners but do better against other types it is fine too. Put someone in who will take the burden off him against spinners.He has been the lone warrior in this team since 2014.When India wins a knockout match in t20 without him doing anything, we can revisit about his slow play.

 

They just need to add another leftie in the top order and this Indian lione up will do just fine.

 

Jadeja is a must in the team, when India has better player at number 7 we can talk about Jadeja too.

 

You can talk all you want, Jadeja and Kohli are still the best in their positions.

Kohli assumes has to bat most number of balls. Didn't India win test matches without him? World came to a halt because kohli gets out? Australia has no superstar culture. India has. How many times Kohli denied strike to get to his Milestone in the world cup. Sometimes one wonders whole innings construction is for a 100. In the semi final iIf Iyer had batted exactly like Kohli we would have lost.  Other teams don't have Kohli. How do they win? You blame either bowlers or other  batsmen. Bowling personnel, batting personnel all changed. RCB is yet to win a cup. Players font revolve around  one player in other franchisees. T20 is a role based format. There is no role like batting out 20 overs in any franchise. Batting out 20 overs is good for Kohlis stats not for team.

[putrevus]

57 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kohli assumes has to bat most number of balls. Didn't India win test matches without him? World came to a halt because kohli gets out? Australia has no superstar culture. India has. How many times Kohli denied strike to get to his Milestone in the world cup. Sometimes one wonders whole innings construction is for a 100. In the semi final iIf Iyer had batted exactly like Kohli we would have lost.  Other teams don't have Kohli. How do they win? You blame either bowlers or other  batsmen. Bowling personnel, batting personnel all changed. RCB is yet to win a cup. Players font revolve around  one player in other franchisees. T20 is a role based format. There is no role like batting out 20 overs in any franchise. Batting out 20 overs is good for Kohlis stats not for team.

He does not assume anything. If other batsmen are scoring runs at other end he is just fine giving them the strike.

 

He was main reason why India won most matches and once matches were won and he tried to get his milestone.There is nothing wrong in what did during world cup. 

 

We all saw once he failed to score 100, what happened to the team.

 

So no matter how hard you try Kohli is still the best bet for India in coming world t20.There is no question about it.

 

When somebody does something without him doing much  and gets India over the line in a knock out match then we can talk about him.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

He does not assume anything. If other batsmen are scoring runs at other end he is just fine giving them the strike.

 

He was main reason why India won most matches and once matches were won and he tried to get his milestone.There is nothing wrong in what did during world cup. 

 

We all saw once he failed to score 100, what happened to the team.

 

So no matter how hard you try Kohli is still the best bet for India in coming world t20.There is no question about it.

 

When somebody does something without him doing much  and gets India over the line in a knock out match then we can talk about him.

 

 

 

 

 

Let  him take chance and get out early. Didn't DK, patidar, Maxwell.play better than kohli in 2022. They won a few tight matches due to DK. Infact everyone outplayed Kohli despite kohli had the 2nd highest total of runs. Probably lomror would have come early had a box office season. He never had to bat 20 overs

Edited April 10 by vvvslaxman

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Let  him take chance and get out early. Didn't DK, patidar, Maxwell.play better than kohli in 2022. They won a few tight matches due to DK. Infact everyone outplayed Kohli despite kohli had the 2nd highest total of runs. Probably lomror would have come early had a box office season. He never had to bat 20 overs

He does not need to do anything different at this stage of his career in t20s for India. He is just fine at number 3 for India in t20s.They need to get him some help in form of a leftie in top three. 

 

IPL is irrelevant.Who cares what RCB does or does not do in IPL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

He does not need to do anything different at this stage of his career in t20s for India. He is just fine at number 3 for India in t20s.They need to get him some help in form of a leftie in top three. 

 

IPL is irrelevant.Who cares what RCB does or does not do in IPL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You blamed Sarfraz for his IPL batting lol Now you are saying IPL stat is useless. His batting is exactly like that for India. He can manage smallish totals like 150 odd. That's it. When it is required to go bonkers on certain pitches he doesn't do. Kohli is useful only in very niche scenario. It doesn't matter where he bats. 3 or 4 or 5 or 6. I would rather prefer INdia losing with bunch of youngsters than these so called seniors.

[putrevus]

21 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You blamed Sarfraz for his IPL batting lol Now you are saying IPL stat is useless. His batting is exactly like that for India. He can manage smallish totals like 150 odd. That's it. When it is required to go bonkers on certain pitches he doesn't do. Kohli is useful only in very niche scenario. It doesn't matter where he bats. 3 or 4 or 5 or 6. I would rather prefer INdia losing with bunch of youngsters than these so called seniors.

Kohli does not need any more validation to prove his worth. Sarfraz does that is the difference, if you cannot understand that difference then there is no point.

 

Kohli is useful in every scenario and he still is best t20 batsman in the country in big matches.

 

He has been carrying the lame ass idiots on his shoulder for more than decade and he still did in 2023 world cup and 2022 t20 world cup also.

 

We will talk about Kohli not being important when someone does something without Kohli doing anything.

 

Kohli is least of India's concerns going into world cup.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli does not need any more validation to prove his worth. Sarfraz does that is the difference, if you cannot understand that difference then there is no point.

 

Kohli is useful in every scenario and he still is best t20 batsman in the country in big matches.

 

He has been carrying the lame ass idiots on his shoulder for more than decade and he still did in 2023 world cup and 2022 t20 world cup also.

 

We will talk about Kohli not being important when someone does something without Kohli doing anything.

 

Kohli is least of India's concerns going into world cup.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He has proven. Now he can leave the scene. He is not needed. KOhli is one of the major concern. THis "least concern" argument is used for all the seniors that is how they hold on to their spots forever. He has won nothing either for his IPL team or India as a batsman. He doesn't bring any value to any side.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He has proven. Now he can leave the scene. He is not needed. KOhli is one of the major concern. THis "least concern" argument is used for all the seniors that is how they hold on to their spots forever. He has won nothing either for his IPL team or India as a batsman. He doesn't bring any value to any side.

No he is still needed, he is the best batsman.. Who cares if he did not win IPL. Rohit Sharma won 5 , what the hell did he do, 

 

You can whine all you want it does not change the fact , Kohli is still best batsman in this country until we see someone play bigger role than him.

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No he is still needed, he is the best batsman.. Who cares if he did not win IPL. Rohit Sharma won 5 , what the hell did he do, 

 

You can whine all you want it does not change the fact , Kohli is still best batsman in this country until we see someone play bigger role than him.

 

In T20 he is not.  He is useless. Why are you comparing with Rohit like we want Rohit in the side.  We just had Jaiswal scoring 700 plus runs in a test series. We have Pant, Gill. More promising youngsters are coming through. India destroyed England 4-1 without "best" batsman.

[putrevus]

15 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

In T20 he is not.  He is useless. Why are you comparing with Rohit like we want Rohit in the side.  We just had Jaiswal scoring 700 plus runs in a test series. We have Pant, Gill. More promising youngsters are coming through. India destroyed England 4-1 without "best" batsman.

In t20 also he is the best. So what Jaiswal scored 700 plus runs in test series.Good for him. 

 

Pant is not a t20 player, how many more t20s does he need to play.He played last t20 world cup , what did he do there again.You can keeping going in cricles, first this, then IPl, then odis, and then t20s .

 

It does not change the fact, he is GOAT batsman in whiteball cricket and he still will be the best t20 batsman for India in June .

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

In t20 also he is the best. So what Jaiswal scored 700 plus runs in test series.Good for him. 

 

Pant is not a t20 player, how many more t20s does he need to play.He played last t20 world cup , what did he do there again.You can keeping going in cricles, first this, then IPl, then odis, and then t20s .

 

It does not change the fact, he is GOAT batsman in whiteball cricket and he still will be the best t20 batsman for India in June .

 

 

 

 

Who cares if he is GOAT or not. Him being GOAT has ever helped India or his franchise side win T20 tournament? No. Lot of statistical analysis shows his presence is useful only in certain scenarios. Lot of times his occupation of the crease hurts the side more than it helps in this format. This format requires certain amount of risk. He doesn't take. It will definiitely allow him to stay at the crease longer wiith thiis approach. That only improves his stat. Not help his side. Last year play off match was an example. ANother century this season was another example.  In the world cup atleast twice he deliberately hogged the strike for 2 centuries. Also did the same in semi final without taking any risks. It was Shreyas Iyer that took all the risks.

[putrevus]

24 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Who cares if he is GOAT or not. Him being GOAT has ever helped India or his franchise side win T20 tournament? No. Lot of statistical analysis shows his presence is useful only in certain scenarios. Lot of times his occupation of the crease hurts the side more than it helps in this format. This format requires certain amount of risk. He doesn't take. It will definiitely allow him to stay at the crease longer wiith thiis approach. That only improves his stat. Not help his side. Last year play off match was an example. ANother century this season was another example.  In the world cup atleast twice he deliberately hogged the strike for 2 centuries. Also did the same in semi final without taking any risks. It was Shreyas Iyer that took all the risks.

Stop going in circles.

 

No matter how much you want to twist, he will be still the best in June.

 

Only question remains is does he get any help from others.