Indian batsmen against spin in T20 internationals

[vvvslaxman]

Left Arm Spin

 

KL Rahul 146.66 avge 33.00

Rohit Sharma 127.14 avge 37.08

SA Yadav 126.38 avge 54.60

Virat Kohli 119.70 avge 67.83

Shuman Gill 100.00  avge 12.50

 

 

 

Edited March 26 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

Let me gather for other type. It is not easy to filter it out.

[Sandz]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Left Arm Spin

 

KL Rahul 146.66 avge 33.00

Rohit Sharma 127.14 avge 37.08

SA Yadav 126.38 avge 54.60

Virat Kohli 119.70 avge 67.83

Shuman Gill 100.00  avge 12.50

 

 

 

Someone’s sacrificing strike rate for average.

[Sandz]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Left Arm Spin

 

KL Rahul 146.66 avge 33.00

Rohit Sharma 127.14 avge 37.08

SA Yadav 126.38 avge 54.60

Virat Kohli 119.70 avge 67.83

Shuman Gill 100.00  avge 12.50

 

 

 

Can you filter this out by high scoring matches, say 160+

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, Sandz said:

Can you filter this out by high scoring matches, say 160+

Given the length of their career it will be a massive exercise. We can try for the last few years.

[Nikhil_cric]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Left Arm Spin

 

KL Rahul 146.66 avge 33.00

Rohit Sharma 127.14 avge 37.08

SA Yadav 126.38 avge 54.60

Virat Kohli 119.70 avge 67.83

Shuman Gill 100.00  avge 12.50

 

 

 

What is the time period ?  KL seems to have declined in recent years. 

 

Anyway this is why you need a more left hander heavy lineup in T20Is. 

 

If the new ball is zipping around , we will not only lose 2-3 upfront , we can't counter attacking in the middle overs whereas other teams easily can. 

[Nikhil_cric]

As I suspected, since Jan 2020,  KL has 33/132 stats against SLA.

 

Our right handers are all awful against SLA's 

 

The only Indian batter to dominate SLA's in this period is Ishan Kishan, a left hander.

 

Has 54/165 stats against left arm spin. 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

6 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

What is the time period ?  KL seems to have declined in recent years. 

 

Anyway this is why you need a more left hander heavy lineup in T20Is. 

 

If the new ball is zipping around , we will not only lose 2-3 upfront , we can't counter attacking in the middle overs whereas other teams easily can. 

We need one more leftie in Middle order inside Top 4. Rinku as per my viewing takes a few balls to get going...  He can be ideal no 4.

Pant if he has a wild IPL where he explodes could solve a lot of issues...  A middle order leftie keeper enables us to have Rinku Pandya as finishers. 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

We need one more leftie in Middle order inside Top 4. Rinku as per my viewing takes a few balls to get going...  He can be ideal no 4.

Pant if he has a wild IPL where he explodes could solve a lot of issues...  A middle order leftie keeper enables us to have Rinku Pandya as finishers. 

 

Rinku also hits pace more effectively. Need someone who can smash right-to-left spin in that middle order.

 

A team like NZ will bowl both Rachin and Santner and we wont have any answers 

[Lone Wolf]

36 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

Rinku also hits pace more effectively. Need someone who can smash right-to-left spin in that middle order.

 

A team like NZ will bowl both Rachin and Santner and we wont have any answers 

Hopefully Pant comes back to full fitness...  He at least has big spin hitting game.  Should be given a clear cut role to go after spin.  That would be his best use in T20s 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Hopefully Pant comes back to full fitness...  He at least has big spin hitting game.  Should be given a clear cut role to go after spin.  That would be his best use in T20s 

Good call. He destroyed Leach.

[Sandz]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Given the length of their career it will be a massive exercise. We can try for the last few years.

That’s ok, I think we already know what the answer is.

[vvvslaxman]

This is why batting order is important. I am not sure if SHivam Dube is in consideration. I would rather have him over Pandya. Atleast he will be available for the full match. 

Just look at what he did against RCB. They exclusively used seamers against him.  They did not use spinners at all.  In Chennai not using spin was a major win. 

Mumbai similarly did not use pacers at all against Gill. Pandya used mainly spinners until Gill got out.  This is why you need to strategize your batting order in such a way that one has to bash the spinners. Other one has to bash the pacers. All these strategies will be used by bowling team against us. We have to be prepared. 

[cowboysfan]

the sad part is that they are not getting better but worse,it means they are not practising against SLAs.

[putrevus]

21 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Left Arm Spin

 

KL Rahul 146.66 avge 33.00

Rohit Sharma 127.14 avge 37.08

SA Yadav 126.38 avge 54.60

Virat Kohli 119.70 avge 67.83

Shuman Gill 100.00  avge 12.50

 

 

 

Openers having low SR is inexcusable, spin is general introduced after 6 overs, openers would have played 6 plus overs and still unable to breakfree is an issue.

 

Number 3 or SKY having low SR is understandable if wickets just fell, they are in consolidation mode.

 

Not having LHB is also a factor.

Edited March 26 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Openers having low SR is inexcusable, spin is general introduced after 6 overs, openers would have played 6 plus overs and still unable to breakfree is an issue.

 

Number 3 or SKY having low SR is understandable if wickets just fell, they are in consolidation mode.

 

Not having LHB is also a factor.

 

This is for the entire career. If you look at the recent numbers it is alarming for Kohli

 

https://wisden.com/stories/global-t20-leagues/indian-premier-league-2023/explained-why-spin-struggles-not-milestones-were-the-cause-of-virat-kohlis-post-powerplay-slowdown

 

Overall, against spin, Kohli has struck at 123.96 in IPL, compared to 132.51 against pace. Those numbers, though, experience a sharp dip when looking at the last three seasons.

Against pace, he still strikes at 133.28 (since the start of IPL 2020), but against spin, the number nosedives to 106.68. Out of 479 balls against spin, he’s played out 155 dots, and hit 19 fours and 18 sixes. So, against spin, 184 out of his 511 runs have come through boundary shots, roughly 36 per cent. The same percentage is 55.7 against pace. It also coincides with his batting approach post the powerplay – since 2020, Kohli’s strike rate in the middle overs (7 to 16) reads 111.85

[putrevus]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

This is for the entire career. If you look at the recent numbers it is alarming for Kohli

 

https://wisden.com/stories/global-t20-leagues/indian-premier-league-2023/explained-why-spin-struggles-not-milestones-were-the-cause-of-virat-kohlis-post-powerplay-slowdown

 

Overall, against spin, Kohli has struck at 123.96 in IPL, compared to 132.51 against pace. Those numbers, though, experience a sharp dip when looking at the last three seasons.

Against pace, he still strikes at 133.28 (since the start of IPL 2020), but against spin, the number nosedives to 106.68. Out of 479 balls against spin, he’s played out 155 dots, and hit 19 fours and 18 sixes. So, against spin, 184 out of his 511 runs have come through boundary shots, roughly 36 per cent. The same percentage is 55.7 against pace. It also coincides with his batting approach post the powerplay – since 2020, Kohli’s strike rate in the middle overs (7 to 16) reads 111.85

You are quoting the period when Kohli started to have issues in all forms of cricket,

 

 

 

it’s is not true reflection, Kohli did stink against all bowling for period of three years in all formats.

 

how was he before this slump, how were others before 2020 and during Kohli’s struggles.

 

2021 and 2022 world t20s even at the peak of his slump , was he was doing better than almost every other batsmen?

Openers did nothing in those two world cups these were  supposed to be their best years.

Did middle order do any better than him?

 

What were those contributions? Let us analyze them match by match and more importantly how was Kohli compared to other batsmen.

How much blame can we assign to Kohli for Pakistan and NZ matches in 2021 world t20 . 
 

What about 2022 world t20.

 

SKY was supposed to be the best t20 batsman, what did he do in those world t20s.

 

IPL. Is not important.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are quoting the period when Kohli started to have issues in all forms of cricket,

 

 

 

it’s is not true reflection, Kohli did stink against all bowling for period of three years in all formats.

 

how was he before this slump, how were others before 2020 and during Kohli’s struggles.

 

2021 and 2022 world t20s even at the peak of his slump , was he was doing better than almost every other batsmen?

Openers did nothing in those two world cups these were  supposed to be their best years.

Did middle order do any better than him?

 

What were those contributions? Let us analyze them match by match and more importantly how was Kohli compared to other batsmen.

How much blame can we assign to Kohli for Pakistan and NZ matches in 2021 world t20 . 
 

What about 2022 world t20.

 

SKY was supposed to be the best t20 batsman, what did he do in those world t20s.

 

IPL. Is not important.

 

You are missing the point. Kohli's failure against spin has nothing to do with Rohit/Rahul failure who are also blamed for their failures. It is not like fans ignore others and exclusively criticize him. Just because he sucked less doesn't mean he didn't suck. This is how PUjara/Rahane/Kohli survived 3 years in Test averaging under 30. We just compared one with other and gave a free pass match after match.  We don't want such a scenario. KOhli doesnt fit the bill. I am looking for guys like Jaiswal, Ravindra, Mitch Marsh who show intent from the get go and continue attacking Not taking singles for 10 overs. 

[Nikhil_cric]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

This is for the entire career. If you look at the recent numbers it is alarming for Kohli

 

https://wisden.com/stories/global-t20-leagues/indian-premier-league-2023/explained-why-spin-struggles-not-milestones-were-the-cause-of-virat-kohlis-post-powerplay-slowdown

 

Overall, against spin, Kohli has struck at 123.96 in IPL, compared to 132.51 against pace. Those numbers, though, experience a sharp dip when looking at the last three seasons.

Against pace, he still strikes at 133.28 (since the start of IPL 2020), but against spin, the number nosedives to 106.68. Out of 479 balls against spin, he’s played out 155 dots, and hit 19 fours and 18 sixes. So, against spin, 184 out of his 511 runs have come through boundary shots, roughly 36 per cent. The same percentage is 55.7 against pace. It also coincides with his batting approach post the powerplay – since 2020, Kohli’s strike rate in the middle overs (7 to 16) reads 111.85

And this is the IPL where Kohli actually plays as an opener and his weakness against spin is masked, somewhat .

 

At #3, he will face spin earlier and will suck all momentum out of the innings.

 

If you look at all the IPL's held in the UAE - he struggled in all of them . Even in 2014 when he was at his peak. 

 

Caribbean pitches can often be slow and Virat at #3, could be a liability yet again.

 

The 2023 World Cup should have been the logical white ball conclusion for Rohit, Virat and Jadeja. 

 

There is simply no point with them carrying on . People can blame Dravid and TM all they want but this team cannot move in a new direction until these these guys are out of the team. 

[Gollum]

If things go normally we'll face Aus/NZ in Barbados. Final also in Barbados. In that venue I trust Kohli more than any batsman in Indian cricket history. There are much bigger things to worry about than Kohli's place lol.

 

He can retire after the WC, just have faith in the GOAT.

Edited March 27 by Gollum