India's left arm spin options

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, cricspirit said:

@vvvslaxman

 

I am not claiming Jadeja to a good striker of the ball or a high strike rate player worth playing at no.6 or no.7. That was not the point of my post. Since I have seen cricket for 3 decades, I know what he can or can't do and mostly won't need the stats. I do not claim he is an impact bowler in T20 either. 

 

Would I prefer someone better like Rinku Singh in his place. Definitely. As long as that no.7 guy comes with ability to bowl 3-4 overs.  Would I prefer someone with better skills at the ball than him. Sure as long as that guy can also score occasional 20-30 runs if needed even if not in all situations. 

 

You fail to understand why he is selected. We do not have the riches you imagine. For what the management wants they are taking the two best available options. Last time it was only Axar. 

 

Both of them can bowl 4 overs and can be hit or miss with the bat depending on the bowler and the day. They can score some runs may be with high strike rate or low strike rate (depends on the day and situation). They can definitely fail on any occasion to any bowler like anyone else. Axar has more intent than Jadeja with strike rate but I cant work hard to bring up stats and instances of how many times Axar failed to pull it through as well and sucked with less than 100SR. Its not like Jadeja has never batted with high strike rate but its not often enough and it's not in a situation where he has won the match with high strike rate batting (which is what you and others are looking for). Can either Axar and Jadeja do something on a day. Yes but the probability is low.  All other options are worse and that is that.

 

If the top order screw up and India are 80 for 5 in 12 overs then they can help take the score to 140-150 to give the team a chance which will likely not be enough. or just add to the collapse and be all out for 120. But this is on the top order. Indian top order either takes all the strike and lower order does not get much or gets too much. Rarely a good platform and low pressure situation to throw the bat. While chasing the story is the same. These guys will likely not win you games if 80 runs is needed with 8 overs after 5 down. but that does not mean they lost the match. they just could not win it on their own. There are not many players who can win the game with the bat in pressure situation with high strike rate either. I am including batters who do not even bowl. They are there but like a dozen or so.

 

Now that Jadeja and Axar are selected, India best use them at no.8 where they belong and Pandu at no.7. this way we can have decent batting. Then use Kuldeep at no.9 and 2 fast bowlers. Use Dube for some overs if needed. 

 

I do get what you are saying, but it is what it is. I end here. 

 

 

 

 

Have ou ever looked at domestic cricket ?How can you say there is nobody? Seriously? Nitish reddy can totally take up his spot. Parag bowled 4 overs in SMAT for his state side. Plus he is a genuinely explosive batsman who can hit sixes at will.  Abhishek Sharma bowls 2 overs regularly for his side. He is another explosive batsman. Given the batting skills of Jadeja he is at best a no.8 or no.9 batsman. If you purely go by bowler who can bat a bit you would rather go with a wristie like Bishnoi. Even Axar as a hitter is much better than Jadeja.  This guy literally missed 11 or 12 full tosses in arow. I mean he barely cleared the 30 yard circle while connecting those full tosses.  Given how much Jadeja struggles even to rotate strike in a T20 how can you entrust him with doing a repair job. This is not test match where he can take his own time and build an innings. In T20 you have to go at acceptable rate whether you have top order collapse or middle order collapse. Cannot go at 4 an over.  

 

 

I disagree with everything you say here. It is staggering you believe what you say.

[cricspirit]

25 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Have ou ever looked at domestic cricket ?How can you say there is nobody? Seriously? Nitish reddy can totally take up his spot. Parag bowled 4 overs in SMAT for his state side. Plus he is a genuinely explosive batsman who can hit sixes at will.  Abhishek Sharma bowls 2 overs regularly for his side. He is another explosive batsman. Given the batting skills of Jadeja he is at best a no.8 or no.9 batsman. If you purely go by bowler who can bat a bit you would rather go with a wristie like Bishnoi. Even Axar as a hitter is much better than Jadeja.  This guy literally missed 11 or 12 full tosses in arow. I mean he barely cleared the 30 yard circle while connecting those full tosses.  Given how much Jadeja struggles even to rotate strike in a T20 how can you entrust him with doing a repair job. This is not test match where he can take his own time and build an innings. In T20 you have to go at acceptable rate whether you have top order collapse or middle order collapse. Cannot go at 4 an over.  

 

 

I disagree with everything you say here. It is staggering you believe what you say.

 

What is Staggering is that you fail to acknowledge what anyone else is saying and think they do not understand the game or what is going on. you are bent on proving Jadeja can't bat or bowl and we have much better options in a dual role. 

 

Nitish Reddy is just coming up now you can not predict or guarantee how he will perform at international level. Does he deserve a chance. Sure. but this was not his shot. Even he is taken and he fails the blame game will start as to who selected this useless guy who is not international material. Do not forget Venky iyer came for some time and still on the scene and now on one wants him. everyone demanded him few years ago. 

 

Parag is good but he is not a replacement for no.7. Parag comes in as a batter who can do Kohli role with better SR and can bowl. But I have seen no evidence than he is a reliable 4 over bowler though he can bowl. Even Jaiswal can bowl but someone needs to use them.  Abhishek Sharma also just came to the scene and an opener. I definitely want him selected but again no one will select him for no.7 and expect him to bowl.  They could have taken Bishnoi but instead they took Chahal. So Bishnoi is not competing with Jadeja/Axar. 

 

We all are seeing IPL and discussing regularly so all of us are aware what you are saying. Rohit was chosen as captain before IPL and he mentioned in press conference that the team was already selected 80% before IPL and only few spots were up for debate. So there are problems in many areas and starts at the top. 

 

I get it what you are saying but you are bring points which do not invalidate Jadeja/Axar selection for the use that management has in mind.

Will I select the same team. No.

Do I want either Jadeja or Axar in the team. No. 

But you can't leave them out and keep the rest the same and win.  Even if I give you your wish to choose two out of like a Brar/Abhishek/Parag/Bishnoi/Sai Kishore in the 15 nothing will change.  Abhishek will be kept as backup for top order and so will be parag. they wont bat these guys at no.7 and expect to bowl overs because they bowled for their state side or bowled a few in IPL. Similarly they won't play Brar or Bishnoi at 7.  Your issue is Jadeja at no.7, which I agree and most here do. So stop having the entire focus on Jadeja as he is a problem but a small one.  They can bat him no.8 and probably will. They have selected Axar and he may play over Jadeja so there is no debate between them. Axar played the last edition in that role. 

 

The probability of winning the cup is very low whichever way you slice it without luck. If India has lost 5 wickets cheaply then most likely we will lose no matter who is down the order. I am not fooling myself here. 

 

 

 

Edited May 3 by cricspirit

[Manucrick]

Soumya Pandey or Manav suthar and Manav can bat

[MumInd]

On 5/1/2024 at 4:24 PM, vvvslaxman said:

Thisi IPL has given a snapshot of how India has a large pool of left arm spinners and their different operating style. Axar and Jadeja are pretty much identical in terms of how they bowl. They spear it in with occasional ball leaving the batsmen.   There are guys like Harpreet Brar slows it up and gives a bit more flight. This way he negates the so called "match ups" as he can still deceive the batsman in flight.

 

For example in the today's CSK and PKXI match look at the difference of speed between Brar and Jadeja. Brar not surprisingly was harder to score against on a pitch like this. India missed a trick by going in for same type of spinners just because they can bat a bit.

 

All it took is one game to prove you wrong...yet again....

 

In a day game where pitch stays the same...

 

your guy Brar 1 over 19 runs...

Jadeja MOTm 3/20....

 

Why dont you talk more about speeds now....

 

or how Brar negates matchups.....

 

Like I said amateur analysis.....

 

@putrevus

Edited May 5 by MumInd

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, MumInd said:

All it took is one game to prove you wrong...yet again....

 

In a day game where pitch stays the same...

 

your guy Brar 1 over 19 runs...

Jadeja MOTm 3/20....

 

Why dont you talk more about speeds now....

 

or how Brar negates matchups.....

 

Like I said amateur analysis.....

 

@putrevus

 

 

Brar bowle inside power play against one of the finest spin player . Talk when Jadeja does that.   CSK 41/1 when he came on to bowl.  On the other hand when Jaddu came on to bowl the already lost 2 wickets  THird wicket picked by Santner.  They were on the backfoot. So you proved nothing. 

[Nikhil_cric]

Great article on the use of left arm spin in the Caribbean..

 

https://www.cricket.com/news/what-has-caused-an-influx-of-left-arm-spinners-at-t20-world-cup-2024-542024-1714801106882