Lone Wolf Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) 24 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Not a question of beta products. I keep telling you a lot of chinese tech is not tested in combat. Word will spread quickly. India have modified a lot of flaws in the t90 tank with the mk3 version. What india need to do is export modified russian tech. Take the mig29k we have for navy. The zhuk me radar is the source of technical issues. Availability is 40%. But if we can integrate uttam radar and make it work, there is a market out there. Even the T90's I read has faced upgradation challenges, right now it is in desperate need of a new optimized ATGM with top attack capability that will keep T90 relevant for a few more years. The design is simply not that easy to upgrade. Arjun was meant to solve those issues.. but dalals being dalals sabotaged it Zorawar is much needed in LAC to combat Chinese Type 15 light tank. Operating T90's/T72's on that front is next to impossible. Armed forces faced serious logistical issues with it. That's when MoD got the danda to work on the project fast enough Edited January 7 by Lone Wolf
G_B_ Posted January 7 Posted January 7 39 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Even the T90's I read has faced upgradation challenges, right now it is in desperate need of a new optimized ATGM with top attack capability that will keep T90 relevant for a few more years. The design is simply not that easy to upgrade. Arjun was meant to solve those issues.. but dalals being dalals sabotaged it Zorawar is much needed in LAC to combat Chinese Type 15 light tank. Operating T90's/T72's on that front is next to impossible. Armed forces faced serious logistical issues with it. That's when MoD got the danda to work on the project fast enough I agree on zorawar. It is needed for that terrain. Its a good design. Ofcourse it was not easy to upgrade. But we have a decent tank in the mk3. Its not going to compare to western tanks but it can be inducted in numbers that india needs.
G_B_ Posted January 7 Posted January 7 https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2026/Jan/07/iaf-looks-to-procure-six-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aircraft
G_B_ Posted January 7 Posted January 7 https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/indrajaal-bags-rs-100-crore-defence-ministry-contracts-to-secure-naval-army-assets-with-autonomous-anti-drone-systems/articleshow/126398722.cms
singhvivek141 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 7 hours ago, G_B_ said: Not a question of beta products. I keep telling you a lot of chinese tech is not tested in combat. Word will spread quickly. India have modified a lot of flaws in the t90 tank with the mk3 version. What india need to do is export modified russian tech. Take the mig29k we have for navy. The zhuk me radar is the source of technical issues. Availability is 40%. But if we can integrate uttam radar and make it work, there is a market out there. Structural integrity of Tanks is a different issue altogether. Shows the metallurgy used by Chinese is pretty raw and unequipped to handle the extreme temperatures. Our T90 Bheeshma and T72 Ajeya tanks are time and battle tested in that sense. Though, they wont fit the Thai requirements as they're extremely heavy, even Arjun is quite heavy in that sense. Zorawar will fit the need. G_B_ and raki05 1 1
G_B_ Posted January 8 Posted January 8 31 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Structural integrity of Tanks is a different issue altogether. Shows the metallurgy used by Chinese is pretty raw and unequipped to handle the extreme temperatures. Our T90 Bheeshma and T72 Ajeya tanks are time and battle tested in that sense. Though, they wont fit the Thai requirements as they're extremely heavy, even Arjun is quite heavy in that sense. Zorawar will fit the need. Lets see, t72 being upgraded with 1000hp engine via ToT. Zorawar might become a 32 tonne (125mm gun) tank with a t72 1000 engine. Thereby reducing reliance on cummins. I read infra (roads tunnels) across lac heavily improved since 2020. Even existing tanks will find it smoother. If we are upgrading t72 from 750hp to 1000 and t90 from 1000 to 1350. Thrust to weight better for mobility overall. Arjun was messed up by combo of unrealistic army demands and drdo. Availability is 20% singhvivek141 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 53 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Structural integrity of Tanks is a different issue altogether. Shows the metallurgy used by Chinese is pretty raw and unequipped to handle the extreme temperatures. Our T90 Bheeshma and T72 Ajeya tanks are time and battle tested in that sense. Though, they wont fit the Thai requirements as they're extremely heavy, even Arjun is quite heavy in that sense. Zorawar will fit the need. Bhai T72 and T90 both have below average returns in Ukraine war. T72's are literally called death traps with turrets getting blown up. Sooner we replace that junk the better. https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/s/RwDxJnczBw Arjun mk 1a was what 60 tons that's close to normal for a Western built tank. It was never pushed like Tejas Mk1a has been. On Pakistani front it had its usage. Zorawar will be world beater when it comes to light tanks mere 25 tons with ability to carry Nag mk2... And I believe it will surpass or rival Chinese type 15 easily. A 45 Ton Zorawar will should replace these older T72/T90's in the future until FMBT comes so far only delays there. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 17 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Bhai T72 and T90 both have below average returns in Ukraine war. T72's are literally called death traps with turrets getting blown up. Sooner we replace that junk the better. https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/s/RwDxJnczBw Arjun mk 1a was what 60 tons that's close to normal for a Western built tank. It was never pushed like Tejas Mk1a has been. On Pakistani front it had its usage. Zorawar will be world beater when it comes to light tanks mere 25 tons with ability to carry Nag mk2... And I believe it will surpass or rival Chinese type 15 easily. A 45 Ton Zorawar will should replace these older T72/T90's in the future until FMBT comes so far only delays there. I am aware of their status, this happened coz Russia relied on tanks while Ukraine used drone tech to drop bombs on the head of Tanks, which is the most vulnerable part of the tank. Russia didnt had drone tech then, and they miscalculated the support which Ukraine had gotten from NATO. Tanks are still useful against in the scenarios of ground invasion post the airforce stikes, though just like helicopters they're not anymore the first line attack. That now belongs to Drones & Missiles. raki05 and G_B_ 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 @Lone Wolf, @G_B_, @rangeelaraja 2025 we've inducted 14 ships, 2026 is poised for 19 ships in the Naval power. I'm assuming atleast 2 of them will be SSBN's (INS Aridhaman and the 4th SSBN). https://www.theweek.in/news/defence/2026/01/07/historic-2026-why-indian-navy-commissioning-19-warships-including-ins-udaygiri-nistar-class-dsv-this-year-is-special.amp.html https://www.ssbcrack.com/2026/01/indian-navy-set-to-commission-19-warships-in-2026-marking-record-fleet-expansion.html G_B_, raki05 and Lone Wolf 1 2
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) 57 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: @Lone Wolf, @G_B_, @rangeelaraja 2025 we've inducted 14 ships, 2026 is poised for 19 ships in the Naval power. I'm assuming atleast 2 of them will be SSBN's (INS Aridhaman and the 4th SSBN). https://www.theweek.in/news/defence/2026/01/07/historic-2026-why-indian-navy-commissioning-19-warships-including-ins-udaygiri-nistar-class-dsv-this-year-is-special.amp.html https://www.ssbcrack.com/2026/01/indian-navy-set-to-commission-19-warships-in-2026-marking-record-fleet-expansion.html They need to give follow on orders to our shipyards. Post 2027 only smaller vessels are in pipeline. Our Shipbuilding capacity has surpassed even Russians, no need to slow down. We will have to see how they plan ahead. Edited January 8 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 Project 18 must be greenlit sooner. India is in need of next gen destroyers. Current Vishakhapatnam class destroyers have only48 vertical launch systems (VLS). In comparison, the P-18 under development includes 144 VLS cells that will support a range of missiles for various mission roles. Current VLS count of entire Indian Navy is around 632. PLAN stands at 4500+... Last year they added 600 alone. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: They need to give follow on orders to our shipyards. Post 2027 only smaller vessels are in pipeline. Our Shipbuilding capacity has surpassed even Russians, no need to slow down. We will to see how they plan ahead. I think fresh orders for large warships needs to be given, unless they're waiting for a big bang decision to announce the third Aircraft Carrrier. Personally, I would like Indian Navy to work on multiple small automated unmanned vessels capable of carrying 3-4 missiles and artillery guns, all interlinked and talking to each other under a secure network. Distributed lethality is where we need to invest, so that these small boats ensure Indian Navy is seen by everyone in the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal. We also need to give better boats to our coast guards, which can mount several guns of different calibre. A strong coast guard will ensure our shores and safe allowing our vessels to patrol at long distance. Edited January 8 by singhvivek141 Lone Wolf 1
G_B_ Posted January 8 Posted January 8 3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: I am aware of their status, this happened coz Russia relied on tanks while Ukraine used drone tech to drop bombs on the head of Tanks, which is the most vulnerable part of the tank. Russia didnt had drone tech then, and they miscalculated the support which Ukraine had gotten from NATO. Tanks are still useful against in the scenarios of ground invasion post the airforce stikes, though just like helicopters they're not anymore the first line attack. That now belongs to Drones & Missiles. Russia has a strategy of simply sending tanks ahead without any planning or protection. This is why they are inducted in mass numbers. Newer T90 has done well as the war went on. singhvivek141 and raki05 1 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) 23 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: We also need to give better boats to our coast guards, which can mount several guns of different calibre. A strong coast guard will ensure our shores and safe allowing our vessels to patrol at long distance. Post 2027 I think focus is on these smaller boats like that pollution control vehicle and there are around 18 fast patrol vehicles in pipeline but the bigger picture is ofcourse those SSK's and next gen destroyers. Both should be high on priority list. If next gen destroyer work starts in 2028-2029 they would start arriving before the end of next decade, I think another Vikrant class carrier is also in consideration... Don't know how I feel about this but Vikramaditya is ageing so can't complain there too. Edited January 8 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 and G_B_ 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 21 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: @singhvivek141 Ukraine war learnings Bhargavastra, and the laser guided drone destroyer suite...we need to build all these as the first layer of defence against the UCAVs. We are lucky that Pakistan is full of retards, hence they dont manufacture a thing and always rely on imports. So they have a limit, but in case of conflict against China...these will come extremely handy Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Bhargavastra, and the laser guided drone destroyer suite...we need to build all these as the first layer of defence against the UCAVs. We are lucky that Pakistan is full of retards, hence they dont manufacture a thing and always rely on imports. So they have a limit, but in case of conflict against China...these will come extremely handy Pakistan's assertion which has been proved right on last 2 occasions is that any conflict with India can barely last for a week before Ceasefire... Their war time production capability which is non existent is basically never tested. Vishwaguru mindset can be blamed somewhat. Their doctrine and their mai baap's know this very well... And hence they focus is on having just enough quality imported inventory to push back seriously for a couple of days. If India is a agrarian society but Pakistan is that on steroids. Both countries cannot participate in total warfare. India in future will when we get industrailsied. We got maybe 40-45 days of that max and Pooks only got 7 max when all of the high end equipment is burned through. War time production capability of Americans and Europeans is unmatched followed by Chinese these days. Americans may churn out 50-60X times the normal rate of production in wartime, Europe and China may be close with European NATO with significant edge. USSR also had that in the past. Industrial states will always edge out in total warfare. singhvivek141 and G_B_ 1 1
G_B_ Posted January 8 Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Pakistan's assertion which has been proved right on last 2 occasions is that any conflict with India can barely last for a week before Ceasefire... Their war time production capability which is non existent is basically never tested. Vishwaguru mindset can be blamed somewhat. Their doctrine and their mai baap's know this very well... And hence they focus is on having just enough quality imported inventory to push back seriously for a couple of days. If India is a agrarian society but Pakistan is that on steroids. Both countries cannot participate in total warfare. India in future will when we get industrailsied. We got maybe 40-45 days of that max and Pooks only got 7 max when all of the high end equipment is burned through. War time production capability of Americans and Europeans is unmatched followed by Chinese these days. Americans may churn out 50-60X times the normal rate of production in wartime, Europe and China may be close with European NATO with significant edge. USSR also had that in the past. Industrial states will always edge out in total warfare. I agree with all of this. But not war time capacity of europe.. Look state of royal navy. Dependent on f35 for which they need usa. Barely 7 frigates. Euorope has tech but no capacity for mass production. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 52 minutes ago, G_B_ said: I agree with all of this. But not war time capacity of europe.. Look state of royal navy. Dependent on f35 for which they need usa. Barely 7 frigates. Euorope has tech but no capacity for mass production. I would also like to add the reason this is why NATO was formed. Individually and on papers, Indian Army can easily take on British, French or German military. But you hit one they all come together. That's why they whittled down their defence budget as they complement each others military and invested that land, expertise, manpower and money into their people and society. In case of a prolonged WW3... each country will summon their MIC and form a giant block because the fundamentals, albeit dormant.. are still there. For example Germany when faced with existential threat and through some political will can produce some absolutely shocking numbers in a war scenario. Not all platforms but mostly ground based equipments, they are too reliant on EU industrial ecosystem for Euro fighters.. unless we assume they acquire all these facilities beforehand..
G_B_ Posted January 8 Posted January 8 14 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: I would also like to add the reason this is why NATO was formed. Individually and on papers, Indian Army can easily take on British, French or German military. But you hit one they all come together. That's why they whittled down their defence budget as they complement each others military and invested that land, expertise, manpower and money into their people and society. In case of a prolonged WW3... each country will summon their MIC and form a giant block because the fundamentals, albeit dormant.. are still there. For example Germany when faced with existential threat and through some political will can produce some absolutely shocking numbers in a war scenario. Not all platforms but mostly ground based equipments, they are too reliant on EU industrial ecosystem for Euro fighters.. unless we assume they acquire all these facilities beforehand.. The only nation that has some capacity is France. They can barely produce 20 rafales a year. Same level as our HAL. Pax european capacity for jets is 50 to 60 a year even in war time. Thats what russia is producing right now French navy is in dire straits. Post cold war they simply reduced budgets as threat was not seen and with ageing soceities pumped money into welfare and pensions. The british challenger tank is very good. As is the leopard. But cannot be mass produced. We are back in t34 vs panzer territory. I did read europe was looking at india as a production base to lower costs and act as capacity mulyiplier.
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