singhvivek141 Posted April 30 Posted April 30 4th squadron is on the way, 5th is supposed to be delivered by Nov. Reports are claiming that Russian MIC is now stable and adopted to war economy. Hence the production is up. Some reports also say that this or the other S400 is also gonna come with Pantsir system. IAF to Receive 4th S-400 Triumf Air Defence System From Russia by Mid-May as Pre-dispatch Inspections Completed https://defence.in/threads/iaf-to-receive-4th-s-400-triumf-air-defence-system-from-russia-by-mid-may-as-pre-dispatch-inspections-completed.17608/ Lone Wolf and G_B_ 1 1
Lone Wolf Posted April 30 Posted April 30 (edited) Pooks get their hands on first of 8 aip powered hangor class sub. Zardari in China. 3 have completed sea trials & next 4 to be assembled in Pookland. Karachi shipbuilding complex should be top priority hitlist for Indian Navy if next time hostilities erupt. It should have been done the first time itself. PAC Kamra facility should be the second. Edited April 30 by Lone Wolf
bsriharsha Posted April 30 Posted April 30 For all the sinking of PNS Ghazi which is a feat, allowing a submarine to get that close to the east coast of India in 1971 is something that can't be repeated. We can easily cut off Karachi. But what we can't do is allow the submarines through again. And yeah , next time , just take out air support and bomb Karachi totally. Their military installations, their port and repair facilities , their fuel facilities.
singhvivek141 Posted April 30 Posted April 30 4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Pooks get their hands on first of 8 aip powered hangor class sub. Zardari in China. 3 have completed sea trials & next 4 to be assembled in Pookland. Karachi shipbuilding complex should be top priority hitlist for Indian Navy if next time hostilities erupt. It should have been done the first time itself. PAC Kamra facility should be the second. Well, one step at a time. Price to pay while going fully indigenious atleast on the sea vessel front.
Lone Wolf Posted April 30 Posted April 30 14 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: For all the sinking of PNS Ghazi which is a feat, allowing a submarine to get that close to the east coast of India in 1971 is something that can't be repeated. We can easily cut off Karachi. But what we can't do is allow the submarines through again. And yeah , next time , just take out air support and bomb Karachi totally. Their military installations, their port and repair facilities , their fuel facilities. Pak defence budget especially salaries and stuff is not added on their annual defence budget unlike India. Those are hidden in their civvy budget. Their smaller $11 billion defence budget is used very judiciously and cleverly. Our $90 billion odd defence budget has salaries and pensions included. It's very insufficient. Rupee depreciation would probably keep it at similar levels in next year as well. The doctrine of Pak is simple and they only invest in fighting 5-6 days max before foreign states intervene like in op Sindoor as Munira ran to Arabs and Trump. bsriharsha 1
Lone Wolf Posted April 30 Posted April 30 (edited) 33 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Well, one step at a time. Price to pay while going fully indigenious atleast on the sea vessel front. Thanks to Chinese for delay for Hangor sub as the first boat was initially supposed to arrive in 2022 itself. That makes it 4 years delay so our sleeping Babooos in MoD had some buffer. I reckon Pooks will diversify next decade and would go with Turks as they seem to be doing with their MILGEM project with their Corvettes P76 is in design phase toh it is at least a decade away. But it is under PMO like SSBN program so rest assured it is priority. Ninda ki shakal se mujhe nahi lagta he will give CCS clearance for P17B this year. Edited April 30 by Lone Wolf
rangeelaraja Posted April 30 Author Posted April 30 10 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Pak defence budget especially salaries and stuff is not added on their annual defence budget unlike India. Those are hidden in their civvy budget. Their smaller $11 billion defence budget is used very judiciously and cleverly. Our $90 billion odd defence budget has salaries and pensions included. It's very insufficient. Rupee depreciation would probably keep it at similar levels in next year as well. The doctrine of Pak is simple and they only invest in fighting 5-6 days max before foreign states intervene like in op Sindoor as Munira ran to Arabs and Trump. I heard over 30 % of this goes into salaries and pensions and only 27 % for acquisition capex ( which is the most important number ) , the remaining is maintenance capex. Not sure how true these numbers are. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted April 30 Posted April 30 (edited) 19 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: I heard over 30 % of this goes into salaries and pensions and only 27 % for acquisition capex ( which is the most important number ) , the remaining is maintenance capex. Not sure how true these numbers are. Yeah I have seen similar numbers only 27.7% for your capital outlay. I was reading sometime back that Pook defence budget is grossly underestimated coz of Fauji Foundation whose assets are in billions already & add your illegal drug money and water mafia it should be close to $20 billion easy. The SIPRI data doesn't accounts for that at all. Rest US, Saudis keep them afloat. Edited April 30 by Lone Wolf rangeelaraja and bsriharsha 1 1
bsriharsha Posted April 30 Posted April 30 49 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Pak defence budget especially salaries and stuff is not added on their annual defence budget unlike India. Those are hidden in their civvy budget. Their smaller $11 billion defence budget is used very judiciously and cleverly. Our $90 billion odd defence budget has salaries and pensions included. It's very insufficient. Rupee depreciation would probably keep it at similar levels in next year as well. The doctrine of Pak is simple and they only invest in fighting 5-6 days max before foreign states intervene like in op Sindoor as Munira ran to Arabs and Trump. Their army has their paws on every commercial business activity in Pakistan. Their actual budget is worth much more. Either way they are only reliant for 5 days war like you said Lone Wolf 1
rangeelaraja Posted April 30 Author Posted April 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Yeah I have seen similar numbers only 27.7% for your capital outlay. I was reading sometime back that Pook defence budget is grossly underestimated coz of Fauji Foundation whose assets are in billions already & add your illegal drug money and water mafia it should be close to $20 billion easy. The SIPRI data doesn't accounts for that at all. Rest US, Saudis keep them afloat. For us salaries and pension take up a lions share of the defense budget. What I heard is that Pak compensates by giving land at throw away rates every year ( at officer level and above ) - this is how their army folks are filthy rich. Individually they get parcels of land as part of compensation - way below market rates - and then they sell them at market rates and make a fortune. Afterall the fauj owns that country. This way salaries and pensions don’t create a big dent in their defense budget. I think their real defense spending may be significantly higher than than the officially stated defense budget. Edited April 30 by rangeelaraja Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted April 30 Posted April 30 14 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: For us salaries and pension take up a lions share of the defense budget. What I heard is that Pak compensates by giving land at throw away rates every year ( at officer level and above ) - this is how their army folks are filthy rich. Individually they get parcels of land as part of compensation - way below market rates - and then they sell them at market rates and make a fortune. Afterall the fauj owns that country. This way salaries and pensions don’t create a big dent in their defense budget. I think their real defense spending may be significantly higher than than the officially stated defense budget. I was obviously looking at conservative figure of $20 billion overall yes it could be even higher. Also India maintains a huge standing army and reserved forces and Pooks are basically almost half of it. So in a way it works it out itself for them. 2-3 Billions at max in salaries and Pensions. India will eventually pull away as it grows and it would be impossible for Pooks to keep the charade of minimum credible military detterance going unless West decides to find a way to hold it as long as it can.
G_B_ Posted April 30 Posted April 30 India biggest issue is salaries and pension Armed forces are too big. Fauji families dont want to talk about this
singhvivek141 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 12 hours ago, G_B_ said: India biggest issue is salaries and pension Armed forces are too big. Fauji families dont want to talk about this We also have enemies spread across, and most of the state police is simply incapable or shall I say sold out to the party in power. Kanglus, Pakistan and China all 3 borders are dangerous. Nepal, Bhutan, Myanmar arent, but Nepal & Myanmar army/police is heavily corrupt or inept to stop any terror activities. Bhutan is the only one who can keep lid on the infiltration, and thats because of their unique geography. With Great Nicobar coming up, the possibility is immense. Bumping up Shipbuilding, artillery and missiles within the MICs. Our export revenue has to be increased so that the amount can be brought back in the defence economy.
Lone Wolf Posted May 1 Posted May 1 LRaShm test fired off the coast of Odisha. Enters phase 2 of trials singhvivek141 and G_B_ 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 5 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: LRaShm test fired off the coast of Odisha. Enters phase 2 of trials Dhvani!!
Lone Wolf Posted May 1 Posted May 1 18 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Dhvani!! LrAshm is HGV, starts off as a ballistic missile then it is glide. It doesn't uses scramjet
Lone Wolf Posted May 2 Posted May 2 (edited) Induction timeline as per Pook defence handles. Weapons package so far hasn't been officially revealed Older upgraded Agosta class can serve upto mid 2030's at least.. Final 4 are being assembled in Karachi shipyard Edited May 2 by Lone Wolf
G_B_ Posted May 2 Posted May 2 20 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: LRaShm test fired off the coast of Odisha. Enters phase 2 of trials Huge leap.
Lone Wolf Posted May 2 Posted May 2 (edited) 27 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Huge leap. But Pralay is still not inducted Edited May 2 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted May 2 Posted May 2 6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Induction timeline as per Pook defence handles. Weapons package so far hasn't been officially revealed Older upgraded Agosta class can serve upto mid 2030's at least.. Final 4 are being assembled in Karachi shipyard Pooks are greatly helped by Chinese military industrial capacity. No matter how good or poor their manufacturing is, the way they are able to churn out ships at rapid scale is impressive. Number by Number we can't match the Chinese industrial scale. Pooks are following the principles of sea denial, not allowing Indian ships near the coasts. That's where we need our ASW's and P8Is to do the heavy duty and detect these submarines. Arnala and Nilgiri class comes with ASW warfare. AIP induction in Kalvari class and P75I has to begin without any delay. Not sure if we can do anything for Sindhughosh or Shishumar class.
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