kumble_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 All right , I am the first to admit that the bee-keeper dress , the likes of ones worn by Afghan women is certainly not my idea of fashion statement by the opposite sex, but here is some food for thought - if , just if, a Muslim women wants to wear the burqa on her free will , why should she be denied citizenship on such flimsy grounds ? After all , replace the subject with a scantily clad women and the french judge would have probably granted citizenship in a heartbeat ! So much for freedom of expression! :--D Any thoughts, anyone ! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7503757.stm A French court has denied citizenship to a Muslim woman from Morocco, ruling that her practice of "radical" Islam is not compatible with French values. The 32-year-old woman, known as Faiza M, has lived in France since 2000 with her husband - a French national - and their three French-born children. Social services reports said the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives". Faiza M said she has never challenged the fundamental values of France. Her initial application for French citizenship was rejected in 2005 on the grounds of "insufficient assimilation" into France. She appealed, and late last month the Conseil d'Etat, France's highest administrative body which also acts as a high court, upheld the decision to deny her citizenship.
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Good more and more state should tighten their immigration policies..***** begets *****
kumble_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 Good more and more state should tighten their immigration policies..***** begets ***** Can you please substantiate - I am not discussing religion here , I think french judge overreacted ! What do you think ?
triam Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 I dont know the French immigration laws, in the US that ruling is illegal, but, if as the article states "insufficient assimilation" is a valid reason and it is open to interpretation by the judge then I think it is a fair enough ruling.
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Can you please substantiate - I am not discussing religion here ' date=' I think french judge overreacted ! What do you think ?[/quote'] What is there to substantiate more and more state should change their immigration laws so as to discourage these ghettoised people from moving in with their ghetto in western world..
Cricketics Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 nothing wrong in this. those who are thinking that France govt is being ANTI-Islam are having misconception France govt is just indicating that such clothes are just not on in their country. this is not being anti to any religion by any means
Lurker Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 A French court has denied citizenship to a Muslim woman from Morocco, ruling that her practice of "radical" Islam is not compatible with French values. Social services reports said the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives". Ridiculous judgement. If French Court decided that the lady lived in "total submission" and hence was disqualified, shouldnt by same token these relatives who made life "submissive" should also be debarred? How is it that those who perpetrated the crime go scott free and the person who faced it gets his citizenship denied.
kumble_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 nothing wrong in this. those who are thinking that France govt is being ANTI-Islam are having misconception France govt is just indicating that such clothes are just not on in their country. this is not being anti to any religion by any means What does her clothes have anything to do with her right for citizenship.Keep in mind , this is one of the most liberal countries in the world .Do I find the dress distasteful , Yes ! But , the question is , how can you reject her citizenship appeal on the grounds of what she wears if it is her own choice !
Gambit Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 While the ruling is in line with their recent crackdown on display of religious symbols in schools, it is quite strange to see this happen in the nation that gave us the concept of Liberty,Equality and Fraternity.
Ram Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 If a women CHOOSES to wear Burqa, be submissive to someone else, what has the court got to do with that? It is the individual's right to decide what he/she wants to wear, be it a Burqa or a Bikini, in the case of women. As long as they havent been forced to wear what they do and dont force others to follow their practice, there shouldnt be any problem with it. This is like saying an Indian citizen who doesnt believe in the core constitutional concepts of democracy, equality and secularism should be stripped of his Indian citizenship. Its his individual prerogative to decide what kind of ideology he follows. No court/govt body has any jurisdiction in that. Likewise, no one should be discriminated based on what they want to wear. The earlier French govt's decision to ban religious symbols from schools was a constructive move, aimed at better intergration of the minorties with the Native French. They figured out that a Muslim girl, wearing a burqa in school, makes it harder for her to make friends and integrate with the rest of the class. But this time, the judge is definitely wrong in rejecting the application of the women.
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Ridiculous judgement. If French Court decided that the lady lived in "total submission" and hence was disqualified, shouldnt by same token these relatives who made life "submissive" should also be debarred? How is it that those who perpetrated the crime go scott free and the person who faced it gets his citizenship denied. Too bad they are already citizen and can't be thrown out..
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 If a women CHOOSES to wear Burqa, be submissive to someone else, what has the court got to do with that? It is the individual's right to decide what he/she wants to wear, be it a Burqa or a Bikini, in the case of women. As long as they havent been forced to wear what they do and dont force others to follow their practice, there shouldnt be any problem with it. This is like saying an Indian citizen who doesnt believe in the core constitutional concepts of democracy, equality and secularism should be stripped of his Indian citizenship. Its his individual prerogative to decide what kind of ideology he follows. No court/govt body has any jurisdiction in that. Likewise, no one should be discriminated based on what they want to wear. The earlier French govt's decision to ban religious symbols from schools was a constructive move, aimed at better intergration of the minorties with the Native French. They figured out that a Muslim girl, wearing a burqa in school, makes it harder for her to make friends and integrate with the rest of the class. But this time, the judge is definitely wrong in rejecting the application of the women. Extend this argument to the whole society.. walking tents aren't comforting sight certainly doesn't scream welcome to the neighbourhodd..
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 What does her clothes have anything to do with her right for citizenship.Keep in mind ' date=' this is one of the most liberal countries in the world .Do I find the dress distasteful , Yes ! But , the question is , how can you reject her citizenship appeal on the grounds of what she wears if it is her own choice ![/quote'] MAn u are hooked up to the dress I believe dress is just the symbol.. I believe she was denied citizenship for much greater reason of submissive tendencies..
kumble_rocks Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 MAn u are hooked up to the dress I believe dress is just the symbol.. I believe she was denied citizenship for much greater reason of submissive tendencies.. That's hardly a valid reason for denial ! My guess is that her dress evoked disgust in the judge who probably thought this women was a Neanderthal ! Otherwise the judge would have been more sympathetic. Either ways , the judge missed the plot ..
Ram Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Extend this argument to the whole society.. walking tents aren't comforting sight certainly doesn't scream welcome to the neighbourhodd.. Well, I can definitely speak for myself and confidently say it wouldnt disturb me one bit, if I see a Burqa clad women walking in front of me. At the most, I would be amused as to why a women should cover herself up so much, in the name of religion. As long someone doesnt try to influence me on my dressing habits, I dont care what they wear. Thats their right.
Lurker Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Too bad they are already citizen and can't be thrown out.. In other words in this modern world there is a BIG difference in terms of Fundamental Rights between a citizen and an immigrant wanting to be citizen. The former wont be accountable for the same crime as the latter. Does expose the hypocracy of the West, doesnt it? I personally feel this case would atleast be partly influenced by the growing number of immigrants in France and the growing intolerance of French folks due to the same.
Predator_05 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 How is a women supposed to eat while wearing a ninja suit ? The ninja suit will cover up everything, leaving only a little slit for the eyes. Do they just starve all day ?
Kriterion Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 How is a women supposed to eat while wearing a ninja suit ? The ninja suit will cover up everything' date=' leaving only a little slit for the eyes. Do they just starve all day ?[/quote'] the burqa transcends worldly food. women in burqas do not need to eat...:haha:
Predator_05 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 the burqa transcends worldly food. women in burqas do not need to eat...:haha: Excellent, thanks for the reply. So it looks like the French Social Services got it spot on with this --> ...the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives" You see kritierion, in the civilized world of the kafirs (which includes France), it's acceptable for women to eat food without having to worry about getting mutiliated. Sounds weird, i know...but that's the way it is. Unfortunately, they left behind 3rd century practices like wearing ninja suits, bending over 5 times a day (that can't be good for your lower back), incest and moved on...those godless traitors.
Lurker Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 How is a women supposed to eat while wearing a ninja suit ? The ninja suit will cover up everything' date=' leaving only a little slit for the eyes. Do they just starve all day ?[/quote'] Burqa is worn when a) Women go out. b) They are in company of men, other than immediate family. Obviously at home burqa is not worn so your question is answered. When women go outside they lift the veil to eat. This is no different to Hindu women who keep long ghunghat really.
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