Ooops, who will we curse now?

[Dhondy]

One of the best and most illuminating threads ever, thanks to Shwetabh, Bumps, and particularly to Boss.

[bunny]

I think the one thing that needs to be taken into account before computing %age of runs scored is was the team innings finished. So if a batsman scores 200 and the team declares at 329/1, then he gets credited with 60% which is ridiculous to say the least. Instead, if the team is all out for 329, then the %age makes sense. As some statistician in cricinfo pointed out, the last 5 wickets count for roughly 20 each, and the first 5 count for roughly 40 each. You should add those runs to the projected total and then do this calculation.

[bunny]

Since Sehwags Debut and excluding matches involving BD and Zim

                            Runs   TeamTotal    %
V Sehwag            	4903	28467	17.22
R Dravid            	5536	36704	15.08
SR Tendulkar        	4146	31307	13.24
VVS Laxman          	4274	35086	12.18
SC Ganguly          	3240	28569	11.34

Note : This stat gives Sehwag a huge advantage as he has failed to score against the minnows :D

There's a problem in this argument. If you are comparing Sehwag with Dravid (or SRT or anybody), you should only include those matches in which they played together. In which case it just boils down to who scored more number of runs, which actually is almost directly related to the average (and actually average is a better criteria as it takes into account Not outs and stuff). So, just compute their averages since Sehwag's debut and that would be it. And maybe Sehwag has the better average since his debut, but that will be partly due to the fact that RD has declined and SRT also had a lean patch lasting 1-2 years and is still not the SRT of old. But, yeah if Sehwag has the better average, then he might be our best player since 2001, but it's better to do a year by year analysis and see who was the better player during that year.

[bunny]

There's a problem in this argument. If you are comparing Sehwag with Dravid (or SRT or anybody)' date=' you should only include those matches in which they played together. In which case it just boils down to who scored more number of runs, which actually is almost directly related to the average (and actually average is a better criteria as it takes into account Not outs and stuff). So, just compute their averages since Sehwag's debut and that would be it. And maybe Sehwag has the better average since his debut, but that will be partly due to the fact that RD has declined and SRT also had a lean patch lasting 1-2 years and is still not the SRT of old. But, yeah if Sehwag has the better average, then he might be our best player since 2001, but it's better to do a year by year analysis and see who was the better player during that year.[/quote'] And once you do that what do you see, Sehwag averages 56, Dravid 58 and Tendulkar 48. http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=1934;player_involve=2281;player_involve_type=all;template=results;type=batting http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/28114.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=1934;player_involve=7781;player_involve_type=all;template=results;type=batting http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=2281;player_involve=7781;player_involve_type=all;template=results;type=batting And once you look into the summary, Sehwag has had a phenomenal 2008, 2005 and 2004 (and a very good 2002). Tendulkar has had a phenomenal 2004 and 2001 (and a very good 2002) Dravid had had a phenomenal 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and a very good 2006.

[bunny]

One notion though I want to dispel is terming Sehwag as a hit and a miss player. It's just not the case. Since 2001, when all 3 have played together (and it's around 77 innings), all have got out to a score of less than 20, 32 times (SRT 33 times). Of course there's a big contrast when we compare 1st innings and 2nd innings averages: Sehwag: 74 and 30. SRT 54 and 38. RD (64, 50)

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[The Outsider]

BB, can you do those numbers for tests in which less than 1200 runs were made with at least 3 completed innings?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[The Outsider]

hmm thats a cracking filter Proff ..... here is the truth table based on that

R Dravid	         1105	5597	19.74
SR Tendulkar	979	5597	17.49
V Sehwag	         834	5308	15.71
VVS Laxman	659	4846	13.60
SC Ganguly	569	5134	11.08

Thanks! I was expecting Dravid and Laxman to move up and although they indeed have, Dravid has really jumped up there!

[Bumper]

Thanks everyone for your contributions. I think we've taken a hard to support theory (one man makes or breaks the team), as far as it can go. It was an educational & exciting debate.

One of the best and most illuminating threads ever, thanks to Shwetabh, Bumps, and particularly to Boss.

Completely agree, I think you can safely replace my name with yours. This is one of the better threads of recent times that I enjoyed participating in.

[Laaloo]

Shwetabh: Merey paas bangla hai, gaadi hai, daulat hai.... tumhare paas kya hai? Dhondy: Merey paas Boss hai.

:haha::haha:

[satishg]

great discussion guys..no one backed out and all u guys were supporting ur posts with facts and it was so meaningful..enjoyed reading every post in this thread :hatsoff:

[kumble_rocks]

Fantastic discussions ! Helped novice like me understand the contributions of stalwarts of our team much better ! Although didn't like some posters taking a dig at Viv Richards !:D

[Dhondy]

And Shwetabh, you were saying....? Sehwag goes and India falling in a heap. Two middle order tyros gone, two to go. ****, ****, ****!

[fineleg]

And Shwetabh, you were saying....? Sehwag goes and India falling in a heap. Two middle order tyros gone, two to go. ****, ****, ****!

I think if not for the "interruption in Dammika getting hurt" maybe Sehwag would have not gotten out :(( The two greats of the Fab 4 fell quickly after!

[Mr. Wicket]

That exactly is what I've been saying forever. There is no chance a single person's contribution can lead to a test victory.

Wash your mouth out Ravi - I thought you were a Hadlee fan!!

[Dhondy]

India will struggle to get to 200 here. Gambhir will go next, because he feels he's done his job. M&M to complete what Prasad started. Game, set and match. India need to bite the bullet and replace some of these "stars".

[Bumper]

And Shwetabh, you were saying....? Sehwag goes and India falling in a heap. Two middle order tyros gone, two to go. ****, ****, ****!

Dont be in such a rush, Dhondy! Remember those averages, what they did back in the 90s, the test matches won, when Veeru wasnt around ?:-D Had Gambhir departed cheaply too (both openers failing), we'd have been 6 down for 80 now.

[Dhondy]

I'd understand if these guys got out playing strokes. But they have been dismissed defending. Tendulkar saw Dravid's dismissal, knew what was coming, and still couldn't keep it out. Oh ye Gods...how the mighty have fallen!

[fineleg]

India will struggle to get to 200 here. Gambhir will go next, because he feels he's done his job. M&M to complete what Prasad started. Game, set and match. India need to bite the bullet and replace some of these "stars".

Even if India gets 200+ or 250+ this is still advtg Sri Lanka, since we are squandering away Batting 1st in decider Test.