vadodaravictor Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Dhoni is a big star and also a role-model. He's impacted Indian cricket more than most people. Are you serious ? Has he impacted more than Dravid, Kumble & others ? Would you say same thing if Kumble just took 10 wickets in an innings in 2008 instead in 1999 ? I think we all are falling for fallacies of recency. We are giving too much importance to recent event and in the process forgetting past achievers.
Ram Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 MM' date=' I remember some time ago , me posting something to the effect that Dhoni is an average player of spin bowling and about his in ability to read Murali's doosra . You vehemently opposed this viewpoint . I am vindicated . This guy chickened out of this series . I still maintain that he is an average player of spin bowling . For course, I am speaking from test cricket perspective only ...[/quote'] KR, to say Dhoni 'chickened' out of the Lankan series because he was afraid of facing of facing Murali/Mendis is a massive allegation to make. Here is a guy, who has risen to being India captain less than 24 months after his international debut. His record, as a batsman and keeper speaks for itself. Almost everyone acknowledge the fact that he is probably the most resourceful captain we have ever had. To say such a player 'chickened' out from facing a couple of spinners doesnt add up right. You may talk about test record, which I will admit doesnt look that special. But Dhoni has played some crucial innings under pressure which has helped us win some important test matches. And dont forget, his 183 against Lanka happened with a Lankan side that Murali in it. Are you serious ? Has he impacted more than Dravid' date=' Kumble & others ? Would you say same thing if Kumble just took 10 wickets in an innings in 2008 instead in 1999 ? I think we all are falling for fallacies of recency. We are giving too much importance to recent event and in the process forgetting past achievers.[/quote'] Nope, I still stand by that claim. Dhoni is definitely more high-profile, popular and has bigger public impact than Kumble and Dravid put together. Just look at the ads he is getting and you will know what I am speaking about.
kablooee87 Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 How anyone can asses Dhoni as the "chickening out" type is beyond me. Nothing he has done in his international career suggests such a scenario. He needed a rest, that's a fact. The decision to skip this particular series was misguided, but one can at least understand it considering his role in the ODI side.
The Outsider Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Nope, I still stand by that claim. Dhoni is definitely more high-profile, popular and has bigger public impact than Kumble and Dravid put together. Just look at the ads he is getting and you will know what I am speaking about. Yeah, then why even have the pretense of having a judge/jury while handing out awards for sporting achievements. Surely, it's easier to get the income tax returns of the players and just hand out the award based on the number of ads and thereby money they earn.
vadodaravictor Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Nope, I still stand by that claim. Dhoni is definitely more high-profile, popular and has bigger public impact than Kumble and Dravid put together. Just look at the ads he is getting and you will know what I am speaking about. Just check this list of our Khel Ratna achievers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Gandhi_Khel_Ratna If high-profile, popularity and public impact were only criteria to get Khel Ratna, then nobody after Sachin Tendulkar would have received it. I can bet a my montly salary on the fact that average Indian might not even have heard many of these names. Sorry MM but criteria you mention do not make one eligible for India's highest sports honor. Also, I am not disregarding whatever Dhoni has done for Indian cricket. My point is that there are others more deserving than him.
kumble_rocks Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 KR, to say Dhoni 'chickened' out of the Lankan series because he was afraid of facing of facing Murali/Mendis is a massive allegation to make. Here is a guy, who has risen to being India captain less than 24 months after his international debut. His record, as a batsman and keeper speaks for itself. Almost everyone acknowledge the fact that he is probably the most resourceful captain we have ever had. To say such a player 'chickened' out from facing a couple of spinners doesnt add up right. You may talk about test record, which I will admit doesnt look that special. But Dhoni has played some crucial innings under pressure which has helped us win some important test matches. And dont forget, his 183 against Lanka happened with a Lankan side that Murali in it. Nope, I still stand by that claim. Dhoni is definitely more high-profile, popular and has bigger public impact than Kumble and Dravid put together. Just look at the ads he is getting and you will know what I am speaking about. I hope you are not serious here . This is not a beauty contest . Guys like VVS , Kumble etc will automatically disqualify if you look at ad revenues , public impact etc as a criteria . The fact remains that he is a excellent wicket keeper in both formats , good batsmen and a great captain in ODI . The accolades will end here . He has been an average test batsmen who has been suspect against world class spin bowling in my opinion. He has had his struggles against Murali in test cricket .Plus the fact that he has one century to his name so far. I don't know how you can deny this. He is definitely an improvement over Yuvi, but by not much... . I don't think he liked the prospect of facing Murali /Mendis in their backyards . Agreed that "Chickened out " is too strong a word , he certainly did not relish this challenge . If he had failed , his fan fare would have been eroded to some extent.
Chaos Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 this is a big disgrace, a player who abonded india in sl and an AVG batsman and good keeper in tests getting this award? BS.
Chaos Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 How anyone can asses Dhoni as the "chickening out" type is beyond me. Nothing he has done in his international career suggests such a scenario. He needed a rest, that's a fact. The decision to skip this particular series was misguided, but one can at least understand it considering his role in the ODI side. he has rap*d pakis and demolished them almost everytime, thats good enough for me, but for award i dont think so. Also a great captain who gotten us so much glory in short time.
Ram Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Yeah' date=' then why even have the pretense of having a judge/jury while handing out awards for sporting achievements. Surely, it's easier to get the income tax returns of the players and just hand out the award based on the number of ads and thereby money they earn.[/quote'] This needs a clarification. The 'just look at the ads and you will know' is just a pointer to how Dhoni is more popular than Dravid and Kumble. I am claiming T.V popuularity should be a judge to decide who gets the Khel Ratna award. I was merely responding to an earlier post which was rebutting my claim that 'Dhoni is a role model and impacted Indian cricket more than most'. Just check this list of our Khel Ratna achievers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Gandhi_Khel_Ratna If high-profile, popularity and public impact were only criteria to get Khel Ratna, then nobody after Sachin Tendulkar would have received it. I can bet a my montly salary on the fact that average Indian might not even have heard many of these names. Sorry MM but criteria you mention do not make one eligible for India's highest sports honor. Also, I am not disregarding whatever Dhoni has done for Indian cricket. My point is that there are others more deserving than him. Never said T.V popularity, or the ads he gets should be criterion for giving the award. In fact, even earlier in the thread I have clearly indicated how its a shame Dhoni is getting the award ahead of Dravid or Kumble. I just responding to your post when you seemed to indicate Dhoni was less popular than Dravid or Kumble. I hope you are not serious here . This is not a beauty contest . Guys like VVS ' date=' Kumble etc will automatically disqualify if you look at ad revenues , public impact etc as a criteria . The fact remains that he is a excellent wicket keeper in both formats , good batsmen and a great captain in ODI . The accolades will end here . He has been an average test batsmen who has been suspect against world class spin bowling in my opinion. He has had his struggles against Murali in test cricket .Plus the fact that he has one century to his name so far. I don't know how you can deny this. He is definitely an improvement over Yuvi, but by not much... . I don't think he liked the prospect of facing Murali /Mendis in their backyards . Agreed that "Chickened out " is too strong a word , he certainly did not relish this challenge . If he had failed , his fan fare would have been eroded to some extent.[/quote'] For the response to the first part of your post, please refer to the initial parts of this post. And KR, I can bet hardly anyone will agree with you when you say Dhoni was afraid of facing Mendis/Murali, which is why he opted out of the Lankan tour. Why he opted out, no one exactly knows, but it certainly isnt that reason.
Holysmoke Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 I dont get it. Tell me one person "OVER THE LAST YEAR" who deserves it more than him. And I'm talking 2007. not sept 2007 to sept 2008
Rajiv Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Just check this list of our Khel Ratna achievers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Gandhi_Khel_Ratna If high-profile, popularity and public impact were only criteria to get Khel Ratna, then nobody after Sachin Tendulkar would have received it. I can bet a my montly salary on the fact that average Indian might not even have heard many of these names. Sorry MM but criteria you mention do not make one eligible for India's highest sports honor. Also, I am not disregarding whatever Dhoni has done for Indian cricket. My point is that there are others more deserving than him. holy, pankaj advani won a khel ratna for snooker What a brilliant player
Sachinism Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 I dont get it. Tell me one person "OVER THE LAST YEAR" who deserves it more than him. And I'm talking 2007. not sept 2007 to sept 2008 Apart from Dhoni, i reckon Ganguly was the only outstanding performer, but most of these people won't understand that and will just keep hating dhoni Someone name a person who deserves the award more than him
The Outsider Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Apart from Dhoni, i reckon Ganguly was the only outstanding performer, but most of these people won't understand that and will just keep hating dhoni Someone name a person who deserves the award more than him The award does not have to be given if there is no outstanding performer. Oh, and the award period is Apr 1 2007 - Mar 31 2008 which includes Dhoni's superb test series with the bat in Australia.
Willow_on_fire Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Mr.Cool...MSD deserves it....:two_thumbs_up:
King Tendulkar Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Didnt you read this? :D You did a massive flip flop and rightly so after I explained the errors in your thinking!
King Tendulkar Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Yea right.. I already blew a gaping hole in your 'Dhoni is a traitor' theory... Since then' date=' your ramblings against him have mellowed down considerably.. :winky:[/quote'] Nope I am still digusted at his lack of commitment to India and tests. Every time I see Kathick balls up it makes me more angry towards Dhoni and his lack of commitment and his so called rest. Note he is not resting for when he is captain i.e the odis Dravid and Kumble have always played for Inida any time, any place, year in year out and have got jack as a reward. Never heard them grumbling about playing for Inida and pulling out of a massive test series for India!
Ram Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 You did a massive flip flop and rightly so after I explained the errors in your thinking! Is my 'massive flip-flop' bigger than the one you did in the 'Karthik is just what the team needs' thread? :D Nope I am still digusted at his lack of commitment to India and tests. Every time I see Kathick balls up it makes me more angry towards Dhoni and his lack of commitment and his so called rest. Note he is not resting for when he is captain i.e the odis Dravid and Kumble have always played for Inida any time, any place, year in year out and have got jack as a reward. Never heard them grumbling about playing for Inida and pulling out of a massive test series for India! This is funny beyond sane limits. You get angry at Dhoni everytime Karthik makes a mistake eh? Lets be honest, shouldnt be Karthik at whom you have to direct your anger at? :D
King Tendulkar Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Is my 'massive flip-flop' bigger than the one you did in the 'Karthik is just what the team needs' thread? :D I formally retract my comments that Karthick is what the teams needs! I for the record now declare that Karthick is a cr#p keeper! But I stand by the fact that Dhoni let his country and team down by not playing in a massive test series. Yet will stll manage to be availble for IPl games and odis were he is captain. Tests are no 1. And the fact he views playing for his country in the ultimate challenge with such flippancy is something I find shocking! HE HAS LET INDIA DOWN!
Ram Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I formally retract my comments that Karthick is what the teams needs! I for the record now declare that Karthick is a cr#p keeper! But I stand by the fact that Dhoni let his country and team down by not playing in a massive test series. Yet will stll manage to be availble for IPl games and odis were he is captain. Tests are no 1. And the fact he views them with such flippancy is something I find shocking Kindly name me 10 players international cricket who will be available for test matches, but wont be available for IPL.
King Tendulkar Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Kindly name me 10 players international cricket who will be available for test matches' date=' but wont be available for IPL.[/quote'] Last time you said name 5. I gave you 5 auusies who quit IPL early to play for the aussies and pull on their beloved baggy green cap! Now you ask for 10! Why did Dhoni not rest from ODI series? And dont want to hear cos he is skipper rubbish. Maybe cos he thinks he will get bigger endorsements and fame by being captain. giving post match interviews as captain and hitting sixes! More interested in fame then sweating blood for his country. And he gets a national award:omg: Name any indian player ever opting to rest from a MAJOR test series? Dravid, Sachin, Kumble and Ganguly would never dream of such a thing! Missing a test series!! these boys would have hid a broken leg from the management if it meant being able to play. RESTING!!! Dhoni you should be ashamed of yourself
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