flamy Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 :wall::wall::wall: haha, if u cant beat em, mate with em :D trust me, I had the same reaction as you many many ishtimes.
vroomfondel Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 we know that actually... they are called gluons. yeah not every creative... but they are a form of bosons (particles that are not limited by the pauli exclusion principle and are governed by bose (and einstein though very reluctantly do i give him any credit for this) statistics' date=' and yes that is an indian name... satyendra bose, after whom the particles are named).[/quote'] lhc hopes to go beyond standard model qcd. there are various supersymmetric models outside the scope of standard model. one of the biggest problems with the standard model is the lack of cp-violation in QCD. it's on par with the dark matter/energy debate. both of which are part of the stated scientific goals of the lhc.
vroomfondel Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/
THX_1138 Posted September 11, 2008 Posted September 11, 2008 Thanks THX for your answers - I had a few more questions Why is this built inside a tunnel 100 or so meters below the ground? How many protons would there be at any given time in the ring? and how would the magnets that accelarate these protons be controlled ? [The more the protons, the higher their radition is going to be, so it'd be interesting to understand how radiation is going to be controlled.]. How do the plan on studying the momentary collision phenomenon ? i.e. how do they acquire data/photographs? If you have any links could you provide those? [i'll google these as well]. Many thanks again for clarifying. :hatsoff: Built below the ground for the obvious logistic reason... who wants a massive tunnel in a big circle in prime real estate? Furthermore, and this is purely my two cents, so might or might not be true... it helps shield against muons that are released when charged particles from solar radiation interact with the upper atmosphere. infact, all neutrino detectors are often placed in underground facilities. Quite a few protons, i dont know a count, doubt anyone does... as for the number of magnets, that might run into several hundred thousands... the magnets are all electromagnets that are computer controlled to provide the appropriate acceleration and deflection. Radiation would occur if the protons could leave the confines of the machinery and collide with biological entities... which they cant. besides, protons are not as malicious as compared to smaller, more energetic particles such as electrons (called beta radiation) and neutrinos. They cant study the collision. the collision, the resultant higgs boson and the boson's disintegration all occur within a few nanoseconds. the massive detectors however, study the trajectories of the decay particles to retrace the steps back to the collision.
THX_1138 Posted September 11, 2008 Posted September 11, 2008 lhc hopes to go beyond standard model qcd. there are various supersymmetric models outside the scope of standard model. one of the biggest problems with the standard model is the lack of cp-violation in QCD. it's on par with the dark matter/energy debate. both of which are part of the stated scientific goals of the lhc. explain this... i dont see the analogy.
flamy Posted September 11, 2008 Posted September 11, 2008 Some girl in Bhopal committed suicide. Girl commits suicide over ‘Big Bang’ fear BHOPAL, Sept 10: A teenage girl in central India killed herself on Wednesday after being traumatised by media reports that a “Big Bang†experiment in Europe could bring about the end of the world, her father said. The 16-year old girl from the state of Madhya Pradesh drank pesticide and was rushed to the hospital but later died, police said. Her father, identified on local television as Biharilal, said his daughter, Chayya, killed herself after watching doomsday predictions made on Indian news programmes. “In the past two days, Chayya had asked me and other relatives about the world coming to an end on Sept 10,†Biharilal was quoted as saying. “We tried to divert her attention and told her she should not worry about such things, but to no avail,†he said. For the past two days, many Indian news channels held discussions airing doomsday predictions over a huge particle-smashing machine buried under the Swiss-French border. The machine, called the Large Hadron Collider, was switched on on Wednesday, at the start of what experts say is the largest scientific experiment in human history. The machine smashes particles together to achieve (on a small scale) re-enactments of the “Big Bang†that created the universe. Leading scientists and researchers at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research said the experiment was safe. They dismissed as “pure fiction†doomsday predictions that the experiment could create anti-matter, or black holes. But in deeply religious and superstitious India, fears about the experiment and the minor risks associated with it spread rapidly through the media. In east India, thousands of people rushed to temples to pray and fast while others savoured their favourite foods in anticipation of the world’s end.—Reuters
THX_1138 Posted September 11, 2008 Posted September 11, 2008 Girl commits suicide over ‘Big Bang’ fear BHOPAL, Sept 10: A teenage girl in central India killed herself on Wednesday after being traumatised by media reports that a “Big Bang†experiment in Europe could bring about the end of the world, her father said. The 16-year old girl from the state of Madhya Pradesh drank pesticide and was rushed to the hospital but later died, police said. Her father, identified on local television as Biharilal, said his daughter, Chayya, killed herself after watching doomsday predictions made on Indian news programmes. “In the past two days, Chayya had asked me and other relatives about the world coming to an end on Sept 10,†Biharilal was quoted as saying. “We tried to divert her attention and told her she should not worry about such things, but to no avail,†he said. For the past two days, many Indian news channels held discussions airing doomsday predictions over a huge particle-smashing machine buried under the Swiss-French border. The machine, called the Large Hadron Collider, was switched on on Wednesday, at the start of what experts say is the largest scientific experiment in human history. The machine smashes particles together to achieve (on a small scale) re-enactments of the “Big Bang†that created the universe. Leading scientists and researchers at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research said the experiment was safe. They dismissed as “pure fiction†doomsday predictions that the experiment could create anti-matter, or black holes. But in deeply religious and superstitious India, fears about the experiment and the minor risks associated with it spread rapidly through the media. In east India, thousands of people rushed to temples to pray and fast while others savoured their favourite foods in anticipation of the world’s end.—Reuters one dumb idiot less in the world.
vroomfondel Posted September 11, 2008 Posted September 11, 2008 explain this... i dont see the analogy. the axion is probably the most commonly hypothesized dark matter particle. the axion is postulated based on the CP-conservation of quarks and gluons. if there is a cp-violation found there, then the axion is out the window (sorry this is handwavy, i'm not a particle physicist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axion#Reasons_for_prediction) shwetabh, shed some light on dark matter?
vroomfondel Posted September 11, 2008 Posted September 11, 2008 a couple of references that I don't understand. maybe you can look through and ask your prof. cp-violation is one of the most interesting things in particle physics, IMHO. Weinberg, S. 1978, Phys. Rev. Lett., 40, 223 Wilczek, F. 1978, Phys. Rev. Lett., 40, 279 , which are references 74,75 from here : http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~dns/MAP/Bahcall/node1.html
The Outsider Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 The Higgs boson is considered to be the conduit of gravitational energy, the all pervading energy that while is the weakest fundamental force when juxtaposed with magnetic, electric and nuclear forces, it does however, act upon very large distances. I'm lost here. Admittedly, it's been a good 6-7 years since my QFT and String theory courses but what does the Higgs field have to do with gravity except being the field which gives particles their masses when they interact with the Higgs field? In fact, the Higgs Boson is part of the Standard Model and the Standard Model does not even include gravity and deals with the other three forces. Moreover the energy scales of the Higgs Boson are much lower than gravity.
THX_1138 Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 I'm lost here. Admittedly' date=' it's been a good 6-7 years since my QFT and String theory courses but what does the Higgs field have to do with gravity except being the field which gives particles their masses when they interact with the Higgs field? In fact, the Higgs Boson is part of the Standard Model and the Standard Model does not even include gravity and deals with the other three forces. Moreover the energy scales of the Higgs Boson are much lower than gravity.[/quote'] the standard model? anyways, here is the thing. gravity is not an instantaneous force. it takes some time to propagate and it propagates like a wave. like a sound wave passing through air stretches the air (reduces the density of the particles) and then compresses them as it propagates. similarly a gravitational wave stretches matter and then compresses it. heck, as we speak we are being stretched and compressed though by an imperceptible amount. hence, the question: what is the conduit of this gravitational wave. furthermore, what gives objects mass? for instance, electric charge is the imbalance of charge, similarly mass results from the all pervading higgs field that is sort of like a marsh and an object with mass is like a guy walking across the marsh. as a result, he feels a dampening effect as the marsh slows him down. hence, the graviton and the higgs field are two concepts that will be challenged and tested for.
The Outsider Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 the standard model? Standard model - the model which describes electromagnetic, weak, and strong forces in a unified manner through a SU(3)*SU(2)*U(1) gauge group. There is no gravity in the standard model. The Higgs Boson pops out in the standard model as the particle required to give mass to other particles in the group. for instance, electric charge is the imbalance of charge, similarly mass results from the all pervading higgs field that is sort of like a marsh and an object with mass is like a guy walking across the marsh. as a result, he feels a dampening effect as the marsh slows him down. You are getting confused between the gravitational field and the Higgs field. Gravitational field is propagated by gravitons and is the origin behind the gravitational force. Higgs field is the field which when interacts with certain particles gives them mass. It has nothing to do with the propagation of gravity, which is what is done by gravitons. Higgs field is consistent with Quantum Field Theory and Special Relativity but there is no self consistent Quantum Theory of Gravity yet. hence, the graviton and the higgs field are two concepts that will be challenged and tested for. The energy scales to test gravitons directly are outrageous. You are basically talking about Planck energies where we don't even have a proper theory of gravity because of divergences you get in QFT and have basically no hope of reproducing in a man made experiment. The best chance to prove the existence of gravitons is through some gravitational wave experiments and the tensor modes of the Cosmic Microwave Background anisotropies.
The Outsider Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 the axion is probably the most commonly hypothesized dark matter particle. the axion is postulated based on the CP-conservation of quarks and gluons. if there is a cp-violation found there' date=' then the axion is out the window (sorry this is handwavy, i'm not a particle physicist: [url']http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axion#Reasons_for_prediction) shwetabh, shed some light on dark matter? vroom, as you said a WIMP(Weakly Interacting Massive Particle) is the most viable dark matter candidate remaining after things like MACHOS, neutrinos etc. have basically been ruled out for one reason or the other and the axion happens to be the most natural candidate because of Occam's razor. Most other WIMP candidates require convoluted theories or additional space time dimensions while the axion is an elegant supersymmetric particle which results from the simplest of supersymmetry theories to back up CP conservation. There is a nut job group in Italy called DAMA who keep on claiming they have found a dark matter particle but no one believes them.
vroomfondel Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 don't you miss physics man? I'm in lab at 3am, and I can't think of another place I'd rather be. (well, one, but that requires a girl).
The Outsider Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 don't you miss physics man? I'm in lab at 3am, and I can't think of another place I'd rather be. (well, one, but that requires a girl). Of course I miss Physics and in my days I've rather give priority to Physics than girls if the girl was fat enough!:D But seriously, as a career choice it becomes tricky. Let's say I want an assistant professor position in the top 30 universities which produce around 150 theoretical Astrophysicists every year. Each university has around 1-2 openings for an Assistant Professor every year for an average of 1.5. That's a huge gap to fill......and the choice is waiting on a $45,000 salary as a postdoc for 5-6 years and the right project to break into as an Assistant Professor or move on into the industry where you are immediately into the 6 figures thanks to all the hard work you put in learning Math and Physics. Moreover, as a postdoc the learning process takes somewhat a backseat because projects become so specialized and so does the politics. To add to all this if you are married, half of those universities become a tough choice to join because they are in some Godforsaken place where your spouse will not find a job fitting his/her credentials. Anyhow, that's my reasoning.....in the end it's a choice which an individual makes weighing in his personal life.
THX_1138 Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 don't you miss physics man? I'm in lab at 3am, and I can't think of another place I'd rather be. (well, one, but that requires a girl). i ve done the dirty with a girl in a lab... a silicon fabircation lab, on top of an etcher that costed upwards of 2 million... just thought i mention that... and now back to unfracking my life after Ike. have internet access at friend's place... lets see how many nights we will be willing to host my butt.
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