Lara tips Ponting as next record-holder

[Rajiv]

Hmm, Sachin scored heavily in the 90s with all class bowlers..oh damn, someone correct me

[King Tendulkar]

Well, who is saying it will ? Certainly not me. That's my whole point. Sach being the current highest run score in Tests does not make him anything that he isn't already. It's just a number.

Its a number that shows he is consistently class. Not good for a few years but brilliant for 17 years. No flah in the pan!

[cochise]

The test for Ponting will come in the next few years when Australia's dominance wanes relative to previous Australian teams...and the opposition is relatively stronger. If he continues to score heavily in the face of dominant opposition, he will probably have the record and deserves it. Up till now, most of his runs have come, playing with a dominant side, against weaker bowling and with the momentum. No, that does not mean he has not played fighting knocks under pressure...he has...which suggests he is made of the right stuff...however, the coming years will definitely test that claim out and he will be judged on the results.

[Donny]

What rubbish!!! Sachin averages over 50 runs per innings in fact he averages 54. Stop talking cr#p! Sotp trying to make out that sachin just has runs cos of how long he has played.

Oh dear. Who let dsr out ? Quite wrong. Ponting: 50.47 Tendulkar 48.53 To save you from blowing a gasket, deesy, you are probably thinking of completed innings (i.e. including not outs). In that case: Ponting 57.88 Tendulkar 54.22

[cochise]

Donny, Can you explain the relative merits of either way of determining the average, so we might understand the relevance of the above statistic? Thanks.

[Donny]

Happy to. :regular_smile: One is how many runs scored in an innings, whether out or not out. i.e. total runs divided by innings played. The other is how many scored in a completed innings. i.e. total runs divided by innings - after subtracting the not outs. Or, total runs divided by the number of outs/dismissals.

[cochise]

Yes...I know that. But what meaningful insight does either method afford us? What are the merits of calculating one way over the other when considering a batsman? Could you expand on that. Thanks.

[Donny]

I've no idea what insights you may get from those stats, cochise. They are just numbers and as both champions have batted (mostly) in the top 4, they mean very little, in that regard. I'm not trying to make a point about anything. I was simply replying to dsr after his dummy spitting reply: "What rubbish!!! Sachin averages over 50 runs per innings in fact he averages 54. Stop talking cr#p!"

[cochise]

Oh, okay. Was just wondering if either way had a particular connotation attached to it.

[King]

A lot of them ? Oh really ? How many cricketers have played more Tests than Sach ? I make it 2. Steve Waugh & Border - and both 'got there'.

S.Waugh and A.Border both played more test matches than Tendulkar but they did not get their they were left behind. I don't rate Ponting any higher than S.Waugh. Ponting is only as good as S.Waugh or A.Border. If they weren't able to score more than 12,000 runs I don't reckon Ponting will either. His averages will slowly catch up as they are doing right now. By the time he retires Sachin would have piled another couple of thousand runs and Ponting will be left behind. Only B.Lara was capable of giving Sachin a run for money as he could go on and on when he got going. He was capable of scoring big often. I don't see that with Ponting, he will score a hundred in a test series but then he will have few low scores. Brian Lara had the capacity to pile big double hundreds. Now with Brian Lara retired I don't reckon not many are around that will be able to catch up with Sachin. Check out the test matches played and runs scored by each batsmen that could have gone on to become the highest ever run getters in test matches. 168 test matches - S. Waugh - 10927 156 test matches - A.Border - 11174 152 test matches - S.Tendulkar - 12037 131 test matches - B.Lara - 11953

[King Tendulkar]

I've no idea what insights you may get from those stats, cochise. They are just numbers and as both champions have batted (mostly) in the top 4, they mean very little, in that regard. I'm not trying to make a point about anything. I was simply replying to dsr after his dummy spitting reply: "What rubbish!!! Sachin averages over 50 runs per innings in fact he averages 54. Stop talking cr#p!"

Your attack on sachin with silly spinning of stats on not outs and outs baloney is ridiculous. There is only a difference of 2 in your spinned stats. So no idea what your point is. Lets discuss pontings poor averages in england and india showing he is a flat track bully

[putrevus]

The test for Ponting will come in the next few years when Australia's dominance wanes relative to previous Australian teams...and the opposition is relatively stronger. If he continues to score heavily in the face of dominant opposition, he will probably have the record and deserves it. Up till now, most of his runs have come, playing with a dominant side, against weaker bowling and with the momentum. No, that does not mean he has not played fighting knocks under pressure...he has...which suggests he is made of the right stuff...however, the coming years will definitely test that claim out and he will be judged on the results.

see this kind of posts just show how rubbish the logic in some of posts are didnt sachin face the same bowlers in last five years when playing other countries and he didnt score more than ricky Quote by ravi View Post I doubt if Ponting will take over the mantle. I think his awesome days with the bat are not going to stay anymore. He will continue to score but not the kind of runs he used to produce in the lat 5-6 years. Knowing Tendulkar, he will make it about 14,000 or 15000 runs in test cricket and Ponting will not be the one to catch him. Perhaps another Tendulkar like lad will be the one to make it and that won't be in a hurry. knowing tendulkar ,:winky: and second thing it looks like you are more in need of that record for him than himself and otherwise you wont comment like that , common man get real when was last time he dominated a team with his bat than ricky did, you still came to conclusion Sachin will outlast Ricky, he has already played 30 test more than him and he will still be there for another 3 years to score 15000 runs and Ricky will just disappear from the scene. Ricky has already scored 36 tons in 121 tests how many did Sachin score in 151 39 and you still think he will not catch him. How can that record which he has any meaning when he took more than 20 test match to limp there, it is same like Kapil dev limping past Hadlee that didnt make Kapil dev greater than him. Sachin was one of the greatest batsman.was is the key , he is not that any more , when was last time he dominated a bowling attack which made him what he is and you still want him to limp around to keep his record.

[cochise]

didnt sachin face the same bowlers in last five years when playing other countries and he didnt score more than ricky

Yes he did. But how many times would he have faced the same bowlers with his team in a dominant position and was able to bat without pressure? This is not an inconsiderable compnent to the whole picture. Also, Sachin had to face Aussie bowlers, which have been, the best in the world. Ponting has not. As far as the record goes...Ponting can have it. If he can get it, he deserves it. My point is, he will be tested out as a batsman in the coming years as he won't have that dominant team around him nor the momentum or the ascendancy...what better than that to test him out for greatness?

[Donny]

Only B.Lara was capable of giving Sachin a run for money as he could go on and on when he got going. He was capable of scoring big often. I don't see that with Ponting' date=' he will score a hundred in a test series but then he will have few low scores.[/quote'] Maybe, if you opened the other eye you would've noticed this little run by Ponting during 2003. 169 Test # 1663 53* Test # 1663 54 Test # 1671 50 Test # 1671 242 Test # 1673 0 Test # 1673 257 Test #1678 Perhaps you'd see how, between December 2005 and December 2006, he scored 8 centuries and 5 fifties in 10 consecutive Tests.

[King]

see this kind of posts just show how rubbish the logicin some of posts are didnt sachin face the same bowlers in last five years when playing other countries and he didnt score more than ricky Quote by ravi View Post I doubt if Ponting will take over the mantle. I think his awesome days with the bat are not going to stay anymore. He will continue to score but not the kind of runs he used to produce in the lat 5-6 years. Knowing Tendulkar, he will make it about 14,000 or 15000 runs in test cricket and Ponting will not be the one to catch him. Perhaps another Tendulkar like lad will be the one to make it and that won't be in a hurry. knowing tendulkar ,:winky: and second thing it looks like you are more in need of that record for him than himself and otherwise you wont comment like that , common man get real when was last time he dominated a team with his bat than ricky did, you still came to conclusion Sachin will outlast Ricky, he has already played 30 test more than him and he will still be there for another 3 years to 15000 runs and Ricky will just disappear from the scene. Ricky has already scored 36 tons in 121 tests how many did Sachin score in 151 39 and you still think he will not catch him. How can that record which he has any meaning when he took more than 20 test match to limp there, it is same like Kapil dev limping past Hadlee that didnt make Kapil dev greater than him. Sachin was one of the greatest batsman.was is the key , he is not that any more , when was last time he dominated a bowling attack which made him what he is and you still want him to limp around to keep his record.

Who cares for your opinions knowing all you got is mention few petty stats rather than acknowledge the superior skills Sachin displays. Looks like you need a bit of education. Read some auto-biographies of some eminent bowlers and you will know the worth of Tendulkar and how much he is feared by the bowlers around the world. Even the Aussie players folk around him in the dressing room to have a word with him whenever opportunity arises. Including Ponting most acknowledge he is the best they have ever seen. Ponting has acknowledged Sachin is the closest thing to perfection in batting. Rest is irrelevant.

[King]

Maybe, if you opened the other eye you would've noticed this little run by Ponting during 2003. 169 Test # 1663 53* Test # 1663 54 Test # 1671 50 Test # 1671 242 Test # 1673 0 Test # 1673 257 Test #1678 Perhaps you'd see how, between December 2005 and December 2006, he scored 8 centuries and 5 fifties in 10 consecutive Tests.

Those are two of the 4 double centuries he has scored. He last scored a double hundred in 2005. What makes you think he's going to churn double hundreds often? Ponting has scored 3 100s in the last two years. He's not getting any better either, these days he has to work really hard to get a hundred.

[Donny]

What makes you think he's going to churn double hundreds often?

Churn out double hundreds ? I didn't say anything about that. I answered your rather silly claim: "I don't see that with Ponting, he will score a hundred in a test series but then he will have few low scores." with some stats, refuting such a statement. All good batsmen have their runs of low scores, after a century. These, for instance: 119* then 21,11,16,7,15,40 114 > 5,0,11 111 > 1,6,0 169 > 9,35,9,7 136 > 6,29,0,9 117 > 0,0,8,0 194 > 2,8,1,8,2,5,55,3,20 153 > 13,0,27,12,5,31,6,13,14 Who would that be ? Maybe you can tell us, Ravi. :regular_smile:

[putrevus]

Who cares for your opinions knowing all you got is mention few petty stats rather than acknowledge the superior skills Sachin displays. Looks like you need a bit of education. Read some auto-biographies of some eminent bowlers and you will know the worth of Tendulkar and how much he is feared by the bowlers around the world. Even the Aussie players folk around him in the dressing room to have a word with him whenever opportunity arises. Including Ponting most acknowledge he is the best they have ever seen. Ponting has acknowledged Sachin is the closest thing to perfection in batting. Rest is irrelevant.

neither do i care about your opinions, all i know or care is this guy is living on past and every stat has shown he has done nothing to deserve that mantle which he has holding in last 5 years, which eminent bowler other than blow hard warne who was jeallous of ricky becuase he didnt get the captaincy has said Sachin is better than rest.Murali has said many time in past that Lara was the best batsmen he faced. Most important stat in recent past five year in matches won or saved by India due to Sachin's batting alone.

[Donny]

Maybe you should see if that claim actually stands up to examination.

[bharat297]

^^ First of all ... Warne was never jealous of Ricky Ponting getting captaincy. Warne had already planned his retirement from ODIs in the year Ponting became captain. He also rated Ponting as one of the best captains he played under. He was much more jealous of Steve Waugh. As for those bowlers who rated Lara as the best. Well they all rated Sachin as the 2nd best (McGrath for example rated Sachin as 2nd best). Wasim Akram rated Tendulkar as the best he's played, as did Allan Donald. Richie Benaud labelled Sachin as the best since Bradman. I mean, the man has score 17 hundreds against the World Champions. Finally, there is no point arguing with you about statistics because Tendulkar haters pick and choose the ones they want to look at. The fact is he is still scoring consistently for us. If you look at the manner in which he scored when he was in his early 20s to the manner in which he scored lately well obviously there is a difference, but if you look at his injuries and the fact he is 35, to still be scoring as consistently as he is shows a great ability to adapt to all conditions.