DomainK Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 With a young MNS activist: I met this guy (early 20s) for the first time a few months ago when he was preparing to join a group that was going to threaten a college principal to admit local guys over outsiders. That was not a pleasant meeting. He politely, but firmly advised me to leave Maharashtra as I am an outsider. After talking for sometime in Hindi, he refused to talk anymore as he did not want to talk in language other than Marathi. I met him again a few days after the Mumbai attacks as he came to my office to pick up a friend. He seemed disillusioned. "My dad is right. We need to stand united as Indians to fight these outside terrorists. We can not afford to fight with each other. We have to be an Indian first and the anything else. What Raj Bhaiya (Thackaray) is doing is not good. You and I make Mumbai." He apologized for the previous meeting and wished me luck before leaving. Apparently he had a discussion with his father after the attacks and watching terrorism from so close quarters must have made a difference. May be he lost a few friends as well....who knows what changed him? He is too young and got brainwashed into communal politics. But thankfully now, he understands that he was wrong and I am sure there are more like him. Such incidents unites people. One attack on India and so many people are surprised at their strong patriotic feelings that they never even knew existed. If someday aliens attack the world, all humanity will stand united. We do stand united in a problem. Unfortunately, we start fighting each other as soon as we are a bit comfortable. A friend's wife The first sms I got asking about my safety came from a Muslim friend from Delhi. A couple of hours later his wife called up and asked the same question. I assured her that I was safe. A week later she called back again and to tell that she was scared for herself and her husband. Someone from her husband's office had said something bad to her. I called my friend and asked what was wrong. He was not worried but a little sad. No one included him in discussions of the act. Whenever he walked upto a group discussing the attacks, they would become quiet suddenly. People gave him strange looks and seemed uncomfortable in his presence. "I have seen plenty of it in my life and I know that its only passing. My wife never saw this, so she is worried. It happens yaar, I am used to it." I called his wife later and assured her that there is no reason to be worried. Not sure how to react to this.
DomainK Posted December 9, 2008 Author Posted December 9, 2008 An auto rickshaw driver I was with a colleague discussing the attacks. We both had the same opinion that not all Muslims are bad people Though most of the discussion was in English, he understood what was being talked. He said that he was a Muslim. "Saab itne log rickshaw mein baithte hein, kitne Islam ko aur Muslamano ko gaali deke jaate hein. Mein sunta rehta hoo. Kuch bol nahi paata hoo." He pointed out that listening so many bad things about one's faith is not easy. But he has no choice. "Karke wo jaate hein, bhugatna humein padta hai." He inquired if I was Muslim and when I said no, he thanked me for understanding that not all Muslims think like terrorists.
Lurker Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Outstanding thread Domaink. We are ultimately influenced by what our real life experiences are, and not what Mahatma Gandhi or Nelson Mandela did. At work So there is this lady at work, sits right across my cubicle. A little on the chubby side and as most chubby people go, quite pleasant. And so we are talking yesterday about projects and stuff and somehow ended up discussing Christmas holiday programme. She tells me she is going to Hawaii, thats where she was raised and spent 15 years or so. Apparently Hawaii has a lot to offer in ways of International culture, and cuisine and so she is quite fond of Indian/Asian food. As we keep talking more and more I come to know she took Asian philosphy in her college and is quite well versed in Sanskrit, Pali, Mandarin etc. Not an expert by any means but someone who understands the difference between Buddhism and Jainism. When she comes to know I am from Gaya, cradle of Buddhism, she is thoroughly delighted. She asks me ton of questions about Gaya and I ask her why she never ventured to that part of the world. She says, with a tinge of pain - I never had much money earlier, and now when I do have some, it is not safe for Americans. Thats when it hit me, in a totally new way, the impact of these attacks. Somehow I always thought - not safe for American tourists - was only spelt out in media. But no it is very real. I closed the conversation with a - This time when I am in India I will get you the absolute bestest tea in the whole wide world. She beamed up and for a moment all was good. xxx
Ram Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Wonderful, wonderful thread. I wish I could contribute my opinions about whats been expressed here, but my only fear is that once again, a thread with just the word 'Muslim' will probably be hijacked, with copious spamming of links and 'truths'. Sigh.... Irrespective, once again, outstanding thread. Rather than youtube videos onsome ancient massacres and links claiming to uncover the 'truths' of different religions, this is what we should be discussing; How the events of today is changing our lives and what we can do to avert the bad implications.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Nobody doubts these samples exist people start pointing out when one extrapolates these samples to give clean chit to hateful ideology.. these guys are good because they are not influenced by that ideology.. heck my family driver back home has been muslim since eons and I can send even little aarush all alone with him without thinking twice.. his goodness has no bearing on hateful ideology that rules the roost in terrorist circle terror factory's ideological school.......Yes these incidents have no bearing whatsoever on the fact that certain holy book is main curriculum in those ideological factorties fromo where terrorists graudate.... If these samples are pained then they should work extra hard to make sure that if there is anythign positive in that curricullum it comes to the fore but all i hear most of the time let me say is victim card being played.. not impressed at all by this tordden line of debate where someone puts forward soem good human being and wants people to forget that there is anythign wrong with the ideology ..... ditto for these gentlemen mentioned in OP..
fineleg Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Very good thread, Domaink. Thanks. Atleast DR posted. Waiting for BB to comment on the events #2 and #3 posted by Domaink. DR, Firstly, they are not samples. They are decent beings. Samples are like the piglet who is in prison. Secondly, acknowledge that not all Muslims are bad. There are quite a few good ones, and only some extremists are rotten apples.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Very good thread, Domaink. Thanks. Atleast DR posted. Waiting for BB to comment on the events #2 and #3 posted by Domaink. DR, Firstly, they are not samples. They are decent beings. Samples are like the piglet who is in prison. Secondly, acknowledge that not all Muslims are bad. There are quite a few good ones, and only some extremists are rotten apples. It's like asking acknowldege you didn't kill those people in mumbai in terror attack... Assume sthg in youor twisted midn and go around seeking acknowledgement to the contrary Muslims who have not drunk from the holy book profusely are decent.. Nobody ever questioned this.. What irks me is people trying to defend the fanatics by throwing in these decent samples.. it's baloney of highest order.
suraj Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Very good thread, Domaink. Thanks. Atleast DR posted. Waiting for BB to comment on the events #2 and #3 posted by Domaink. DR, Firstly, they are not samples. They are decent beings. Samples are like the piglet who is in prison. Secondly, acknowledge that not all Muslims are bad. There are quite a few good ones, and only some extremists are rotten apples. DUH!! Where did he say all Muslims are bad?? His posts have mostly been about the particular strict ideology in that religion that has been driving the followers to kill rather than live and let live.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 DUH!! Where did he say all Muslims are bad?? His posts have mostly been about the particular strict ideology in that religion that has been driving the followers to kill rather than live and let live. These sensible things evade her closed mind.. I can bet i have more closerelationships in my personal life with muslims than any of these champions..
Lurker Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 All those who dont have anything worthwhile to contribute can kindly F**k off. Indian Mohajirs. achchhaa saa koii mausam tanahaa saa koii aalam har vaqt aa ronaa to bekaar kaa ronaa hai And so I am working with this team of developers, half of which I absolutely dislike. Without going much into details lets just say the resume was fudged and Project Manager was unable to seperate grain from the chaffe. Probably what gets me more is the sheer nonchalance, a beleif that if this project tanks next one shall come along. There is little accountability. Needless to say I drill these folks and wont be surprised if I am not a favorite. The other day I am having lunch with a friend and one of these fellows comes along. Somehow the discussion turns to India and where you from, you know the usual. As I mention I am from BiharI get the response I am used to. It starts with a big smile, almost like a joke, maybe tad sarcasm followed by - Accha the land of Laloo?? And maybe if that is not enough it is often laced, as it was this time, with a - So you are a Bhaiyya? It bothers me that a large populace of India is called out as a joke. Lets be honest noone ever says - Oh that ISRO chap is a genius, he must be a Bhaiyya! What you do hear is a taxi wallah call aloud to a person crossing the street during traffic - Dekh ke chal, bhaiyya hai kya?? Our neighbours gave a nickname to people who migrated, Mohajirs. We went a step ahead, named an entire lot of people right in our nation! xxx
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 finey ... I have put down my experiences with Muslims before in my interview thread. Iam not the type that will get fooled by the goody-goody PC oooh you are so nice ya ba kinda BS. Sample this conv that happened with a very good Muslim friend during Salman Rushdie satanic verses times when Rushdie went underground : Me : What do you think of the fatwa? Will you act if you come across Rushdie ? He: Yes if I find him I will kill him. This was a guy who would come to RSS shakha with me (I kid you not ) Moral of the story is you gotta live with them for ages to get to know their psyche and then there is ofcourse the body bags shown on the TV. It's Fact in your face gathered over years thorugh thousands of terro blast millions of lives thousands of islamic scholars vs anecdote dealing with experiences of few good muslims who refuse to buy the things written in the book and allow their common sense to drive their morality. I respect these gentlemen's resolve but that doesn't solve the problem.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 finey ... I have put down my experiences with Muslims before in my interview thread. Iam not the type that will get fooled by the goody-goody PC oooh you are so nice ya ba kinda BS. Sample this conv that happened with a very good Muslim friend during Salman Rushdie satanic verses times when Rushdie went underground : Me : What do you think of the fatwa? Will you act if you come across Rushdie ? He: Yes if I find him I will kill him. This was a guy who would come to RSS shakha with me (I kid you not ) Moral of the story is you gotta live with them for ages to get to know their psyche and then there is ofcourse the body bags shown on the TV. It's Fact in your face gathered over years thorugh thousands of terro blast millions of lives thousands of islamic scholars vs anecdote dealing with experiences of few good muslims who refuse to buy the things written in the book and allow their common sense to drive their morality. I respect these gentlemen's resolve but that doesn't solve the problem.
suraj Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Please, dont derail this thread too. Please. I agree- lets please just post the conversations as per the OP vs. opinions on the good, bad and ugly whether it is about members or religion
DomainK Posted December 9, 2008 Author Posted December 9, 2008 Guys, lets keep this thread free from judgments and conclusions. Lets just share our experiences here. We have enough threads for judgments.
Ram Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Ironically, I've learnt more about Indian people and their different cultures AFTER living in the U.S, coz all the while I was in Madras, I have been interacting mostly with the locals and never really got a chance to mix with peoples from other states. That changed after moving to the states, coz obviously, you come across Indians from almost every state. It was during one of these occasions, that I had a chance to pick on the minds of 4-5 Gujratis, sometime earlier this year. All of them were uniform in their hatred and mistrust for Muslims and were all praise for Modi ( no prizes for guessing that they were all Hindus, except one guy, who was actually Christian with a distinctly Jewish name). In fact, one of the guys even accepted to taking part in the riots of 2002, saying it was 'fun and I torched many Muslim owned shops and looted them. I gasped at hearing this and couldnt believe I was actually conversing with a rioter. Needless to say, thats the last I ever spoke to those guys.:D
punjabi_khota Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 I went to this "international" food store, which is run by a NWFP born, Pakistani-Punjab raised dude. I knew him because we played some cricket together last couple of years. So he says the Mumbai attacks were a RAW idea, and although Pakistanis may have been involved, it was the RAW that paid them 1.5 lakhs each. He claimed to have worked for ISI for a couple of years. I don't believe him about that though.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 All those who dont have anything worthwhile to contribute can kindly F**k off. Indian Mohajirs. achchhaa saa koii mausam tanahaa saa koii aalam har vaqt aa ronaa to bekaar kaa ronaa hai And so I am working with this team of developers, half of which I absolutely dislike. Without going much into details lets just say the resume was fudged and Project Manager was unable to seperate grain from the chaffe. Probably what gets me more is the sheer nonchalance, a beleif that if this project tanks next one shall come along. There is little accountability. Needless to say I drill these folks and wont be surprised if I am not a favorite. The other day I am having lunch with a friend and one of these fellows comes along. Somehow the discussion turns to India and where you from, you know the usual. As I mention I am from BiharI get the response I am used to. It starts with a big smile, almost like a joke, maybe tad sarcasm followed by - Accha the land of Laloo?? And maybe if that is not enough it is often laced, as it was this time, with a - So you are a Bhaiyya? It bothers me that a large populace of India is called out as a joke. Lets be honest noone ever says - Oh that ISRO chap is a genius, he must be a Bhaiyya! What you do hear is a taxi wallah call aloud to a person crossing the street during traffic - Dekh ke chal, bhaiyya hai kya?? Our neighbours gave a nickname to people who migrated, Mohajirs. We went a step ahead, named an entire lot of people right in our nation! xxx We didn't do that they themselves by their actions have earned that.. Yes that depiction bhaiya feels bad but even that we have kind of earned it, haven't we. Politically incorrect things to say no doubt.........It's matter of national security bhai can't let PCness to derail the debate..certainly can't be equated with the issue of social-etiquette or rather lack of it of any region
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