Shehezaada Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Are you willing to listen patiently why I do what I do ? In other words are facts allowed ? Keep in mind that I have actually lived in a mini Dar-Ul-Islam type setting for a time period that is greater than your age. Let me know just in case. OK BossBhai. Let's see what you got.
Lurker Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 I do have many pakistani friends but my conversation with them has always been "hey whats up...hows life....take it ez" type. I have only 2 close Pakistani friends and we tend to not discuss any political issues. About Pakistani products' date=' [b']I was never in a dilemma of choosing them or rejecting them as I seriously have not seen any Made In Pakistan tag in my life :nervous:. ...it might be because I am not a shopping freak or I go to groceries stores that are owned by my dad's friends. You should start visiting Target, the superstore. You will find a lot of excellent t-shirts, specially the muscle variet Made in Pakistan. Great design and good products. Although I rarely shop for clothes in Supermarkets I do make an exception at Target. Also if you are into leather goods, belt/wallets/lifting belts etc. , you will see a lot of Made in Pakistan logo.
Ram Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 That is the view of arab Islamists as well, after ignoring the context, ground realities prevailing during that time. I will briefly summarize the situation of Iraq, before United State took the global war on terror to Iraq and Afghanistan -- Iraq was a country where 20% Sunni Salafi Muslims lead by Saddam Hussain ruled an 80% majority Shia population. Go Figure! Not only this, Saddam Hussain's Sunni Bath party worked exactly like Nazi party of Hitler era Germany was working. They killed and eliminated any single Shia who raise even a voice against Sunni government of Saddam. Bath Party of Saddam has some Nazi killers like that infamous "Chemical" Ali who killed hundreds of Shia and Kurds by using toxic chemicals and regular threat to neighboring Kuwait for similiar consequences. I sometimes wonder if many western educated folks even know the difference between Shia and Sunni in Islam and Iraqi lands historical importance in Islamic schism. I am sure many don't even know whether Al Qaeda/Taliban is Sunni or Shia :haha: Anyway under this circumstances, United States decided to take down Saddam and bring democracy in Iraq, which has only NET GAIN than contrary to theory peddled by Sunni arab thinkers -- (1) Before US toppled Saddam, Iraq was under severe sanctions of not only US and Europe but also United Nations. United Nations passed a bill preventing the world from buying oil and doing any meaningful trade with Saddam's Iraq, for he was engaged in killing his own citizens(Shias).Iraq was hardly able to sell any oil accept some token amount in exchange for food (our Indian Kaangressi vultures even made money out of that :giggle:) Contrary to this after months of bloody bomb blasts and violence, for which in fact, Iraqi Sunni militants of Al-Qaeda were more responsible than US army, Today Iraq is new country. The sanctions of US and UN is no more. Iraq in it's modern history, is first time ruled by a Shia leader (Nouri Al Maliki) duly elected by the will of their people.Kurds are having fair representation. Moreover, if really Iraqis were so oppressed then how come hundreds of thousands of Iraqis came out on street celebrating their freedom from a tyrant as if they have got independence when Saddam was caught. It was a moment of Independence for Iraqis like we had in 1947, of course middle east media dominated by Sunni arabs will hesitate in saying this for obvious reasons. Moreover going by your own hyper morality preaching isn't it morally a good thing that USA freed majority Iraqis from oppression? Do you know the toll of "Human" life during partition of India and Pakistan that took place just because a Jinnah said that a pure religion like Islam cannot live together with kaafirs? Do you know the toll of "Human" life when Bangladesh got their independence? And how the hell you know all were innocent "Human". More than 70% killing was done by Suicide bombers of Al Qaeda in Iraq who were NOT ready to except kaafir like Shia's rule Sunnis in Iraq. You really need to come out of this morality and PC bakwaas of Aryundhati kind and look at history with perspective of long term NET GAINS for humanity before denouncing everything evil USA. I asked you a VERY simple, straightforward question; 'Where are the WMDs?' I dont see the answer for that question anywhere in your post. I dont need a refresher course in the history of the middle-east, I already know most of what you're trying to say ( Not that I am conceding that what you wrote is 100% factually and historically accurate. You've either conveniently ignored undeniable FACTS or chosen to portray them in a manner that suits your argument).
Ram Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 MM, While Boss, DR et.al. have their usual "kick out or convert Muslims-to-Hindus" type of extreme point of view - I still like to question your view mentioned above. If USA is doing 'equivalent of' that, then how come you comfortably ignore that and live in USA and contribute into the treasury and general economy of a country which does what you claim it does? Do you mean to say you are turning a blind eye to such "state-sponsored" - because it has good job and career prospects? (Dont distinguish USA from the govt. For purposes of this argument they are the same). Again - I am not supporting extremist statements by BB or DR - merely restricting myself to the statement you made above (namely, "thats the ONLY difference!" phrase you mentioned above) Dont confuse ideology to livelihood. There are millions and millions of Americans who share my view that the US waged an illegal war in Iraq. So, do they all cease to be Americans'? Besides, I've never claimed to be part of any group or camp. Unlike the Saffron brigade here or the Ultra-Leftists anywhere else, I am equally apathetic towards all, full stop. I hate the American govt/Islamic terrorists/Narendra Modi/any other person or entity that perpetrates crimes against humanity equally.
Macj Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Buggers at work all remain silent, you can bet that even the Pakistan leadership's condolences are all hollow. They're jumping with joy at the incident. Quickly they switch to the latest Bollywood blockbuster and how THEIR men Salman, Shah-Rukh and Aamir hold Bollywood's fortunes. Pfft.
rahulrulezz Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Buggers at work all remain silent, you can bet that even the Pakistan leadership's condolences are all hollow. They're jumping with joy at the incident. Quickly they switch to the latest Bollywood blockbuster and how THEIR men Salman, Shah-Rukh and Aamir hold Bollywood's fortunes. Pfft. i find that attitude funny when I see that coming from Pakistanis... in 60 years of history, some Pakistanis really need to understand that "Their Men" are as Indian than any man in India...
Macj Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Dont confuse ideology to livelihood. There are millions and millions of Americans who share my view that the US waged an illegal war in Iraq. So, do they all cease to be Americans'? Besides, I've never claimed to be part of any group or camp. Unlike the Saffron brigade here or the Ultra-Leftists anywhere else, I am equally apathetic towards all, full stop. I hate the American govt/Islamic terrorists/Narendra Modi/any other person or entity that perpetrates crimes against humanity equally. 1947 - Pakistan - 70% Muslim 25% Hindu 5 % Christian and others 2008 - Pakistan 99% Muslim 1% Hindu Christian and others Meanwhile India 1947 - 80% Hindu 18% Muslim 2% Christian and rest Almost the same in 2003 Now shhhh....
Kartikey Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I dont have any Porki friends and Im glad with that because I dont think I would be able to speak to some people whose country has been killing our people.
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Why do u guys entertain finey in serious debate of history in first place.. she is fit for lol rofl type of the thread only ..
Macj Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 BTW boycotting Paki goods doesnt really hurt them bad enough because the goods have already been purchased by importers.If they arent sold then its a tax writeoff for those importers, who all happen to be Paki based in Devon st in Chicago. What I do is complain to the dept of health about the quality of rice or to Target about the poor quality of fabric etc. When upper management sees a letter with some details they take action so much so that a major grocer nearby has completely stopped importing Zafrani brand rice.
sandtest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I asked you a VERY simple, straightforward question; 'Where are the WMDs?' I dont see the answer for that question anywhere in your post. I dont need a refresher course in the history of the middle-east, I already know most of what you're trying to say ( Not that I am conceding that what you wrote is 100% factually and historically accurate. You've either conveniently ignored undeniable FACTS or chosen to portray them in a manner that suits your argument). reason for this discussion is YOUR peddling of arab story that USA's Global War on terror is SAME as Al Qaeda/ Taliban's wahhabi Islamic terrorism. It is this BS of equal=equal which attracted response. regardless of WMD arguement, you have proof of Iraq's worse situation during Saddam's oppressive regime and genocide of Shia and Kurds. And Iraq's PRESENT situation where violence has now reduced and stable government is slowly but surely making progress. And all this due to efforts of United States and their financial, military assistance/training to Iraqi police in forming a law abiding good governance. And yet, you are stuck with your "evil" USA same same as Al Qaeda/Taliban arguement? And as far as WMDs are concerned, extrapolating an intelligence failure and portraying it as equal=equal with Al Qaeda/ Taliban terror is outright Islamic propaganda of Arab sunnis. Moreover, it IS a known fact that Saddam once had tried acquiring Uranium processing technology and was raided by Israel eliminating their capability. So there was no way one can say that Saddam if survived will never try to do the same. Further, what else you Islamic sympthisers want?...Just because of an intelligence failure, Americans have already punished themselves by electing a fanatically Socialist person as their president.?
fineleg Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Why do u guys entertain finey in serious debate of history in first place.. she is fit for lol rofl type of the thread only .. Leader of the Hindutva ("lets kick out or convert Ind Muslims") brigade says so. How authentic and unbiased
sandtest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 OMG sandy - u wanted McCain/Sarah Palin combo? Now it's useless to discuss this topic. What you and those who live in USA, now, need to think is your so called "Agent of Change" -- what "change" he has actually brought, all I can read is the messiha is more of a "politician" than anything even close to "change", all hawkish politicians and their coteries are going to be with him at some or other positions as advisor/special envoys......so much for the "change":giggle:
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