Irfan

[Fontaine]

This isnt a video game for god's sake.to have control like u want need lots of practice.u cant expect a guy to be accurate like mcgrath all the time.u have to mix it up.in t20 u cant just bowl normal swingers everytime.batsmen will line u up pretty soon.wat pathan was trying was variety.we were defending a lowish total.so pathan had to try extra hard to get wickets.it didnt work out for him,so wat?i'm sure next time it will.with such small grounds,restricting batsmen can be very tough unless u r deadly accurate atleast he wasnt bowling noballs after no balls like ishant.

Please don't try and confuse the issue. No one is saying Pathan has to bowl with his natural swing every single delivery with the perfect length. But he has to bowl more of these deliveries and then mix it up with deliveries with the seam scrambled so the ball doesn't swing and batsmen can't then pick the line. Again, if this was a novice/club bowler, you can be forgiven. But whoever said it in this thread is right, Pathan hasn't looked to consistently swing the ball since he came back from Australia and that is a long, long time in terms of the matches he's played in between. It's not just me, but the commentators in other matches as well as Shastri were all saying the same thing. Swing the ball more Irfan, that's what you do best. The last Indian bowler to consistently swing the ball in the air and occasionaly mix it up with straighter ones was the best bowler in the T20 World Cup in RP Singh. Pathan can do that and BETTER. Why he doesn't is his fault. What Pathan has been doing is nonsense. It's like asking Munaf Patel to try to become a swing bowler, or Ishant Sharma to try and become a medium pacer because he has a good slower ball. It's not his natural game and never will be. The sooner Pathan realizes this, the better off he and the team will be.

[bunny]

o really?only two weeks ago he won us a game from a hopeless situation.how quickly people forget that? and if rohit sharma can play game after game after consistently failing,why not irfan?

You answer yourself with your 2nd comment...both need to be dropped. IKP won that match with batting. if he is playing as a pure batsman I don't mind it (it will then depend on his batting performances). He cant play as the 3rd/4th main bowler right now.

[Fontaine]

Let's just stop making excuses for players when they suck just like we shouldn't be asking for them to be dropped because of one or two bad performances. I remember most of this board, the Indian/Aussi media and Ponting all having a go at the Aussi bowlers when they was bowling in India because their seam position sucked and was lousy which got them no reverse swing. So it's the same when I criticize Irfan. He is not a fast bowler, he's a swing bowler and when a swing bowler doesn't try to swing the ball and get the seam position right then he should be criticized EVERY SINGLE TIME, regardless of whether he's Indian or not.

[Fontaine]

Half a day later and I'm still pissed off with Irfan. This was a bowling performance that should be flushed down the toilet by him. Just once I'd like to see this clown stop trying to be like Zaheer and bowl variations in length, pace, off cutters etc. Pathan can't do what Zaheer can because he doesn't have even 10% of the control that Zaheer does. All he has to do is bowl that swinging delivery 3/4 times an over and mix it up with a scrambled seam on the off stump line so that it doesn't swing. Those two simple deliveries will not only get him wickets because the batsmen won't be sure of the line but also cut down hugely on the flow of runs. You have this God given talent of swinging the ball in the air Irfan and you're pissing it away by not even trying it enough. Full of fail!!!

[Shehezaada]

TBH I'd rather play Irfan at #4 ahead of Nohit Sharma

[Sachinism]

The physio should declare him injured and replace him with Sreesanth

[fineleg]

atleast he wasnt bowling noballs after no balls like ishant.

Pls. dont compare IKP with IS. Its an insult to bowling. Yes, IS has a problem with No Balls. But still he is a much, much better bowler than IKP. (BTW - that free hit rule is stoopid - ICC should scrap the free hit rule - too much of a batsman friendly game already).

[Lord]

Pls. dont compare IKP with IS. Its an insult to bowling. Yes, IS has a problem with No Balls. But still he is a much, much better bowler than IKP. (BTW - that free hit rule is stoopid - ICC should scrap the free hit rule - too much of a batsman friendly game already).

i'm not comparing ishant with IKP.i know ishant is uch better bowler.i just referred to that to say irfan showed discipline to not bowl no balls

[Lord]

Half a day later and I'm still pissed off with Irfan. This was a bowling performance that should be flushed down the toilet by him. Just once I'd like to see this clown stop trying to be like Zaheer and bowl variations in length, pace, off cutters etc. Pathan can't do what Zaheer can because he doesn't have even 10% of the control that Zaheer does. All he has to do is bowl that swinging delivery 3/4 times an over and mix it up with a scrambled seam on the off stump line so that it doesn't swing. Those two simple deliveries will not only get him wickets because the batsmen won't be sure of the line but also cut down hugely on the flow of runs. You have this God given talent of swinging the ball in the air Irfan and you're pissing it away by not even trying it enough. Full of fail!!!

u must be happy today.irfan was doing exactly wat u wanted bowl swinging deliveries most of the time on good length.no slower ones nothing.guess wat he still went for 41 runs.

[Fontaine]

u must be happy today.irfan was doing exactly wat u wanted bowl swinging deliveries most of the time on good length.no slower ones nothing.guess wat he still went for 41 runs.

Yes, Irfan bowled ten times better today. Maybe getting the new ball gave him the confidence to use the seam properly and swing it a lot more. Look at his first over with the new ball, consistently and continiously beating the batsmen with swing and he continued doing that throughout his spell. He mixed it up in the end in the last over when you're supposed to be bowling fuller deliveries that went for singles. Don't look at the runs he conceded because for the rest of the series Irfan will be key for us and I guarantee you that if he continues to bowl like he did today then there's no way in 50 overs cricket batsmen will hit him around for runs. Just like I said previously in this thread, bowl that inswinging fuller length delivery and you'll pick up wickets and keep the economy down and that's exactly what happened. He got a wicket and didn't go for runs when he was bowling for that swing. He did bowl a few average deliveries and some that McCullum just was too good for but that's ok. Overall a much much better performance and Pathan will be a huge asset for us in ODI matches in this tour if he continues to bowl that swing. And btw it would be better if you actually analysed his performance and seperated it by the types of deliveries he bowled, which went for runs, which didn't, instead of just saying what you said which is a pretty ordinary comment. :winky:

[Lord]

Yes, Irfan bowled ten times better today. Maybe getting the new ball gave him the confidence to use the seam properly and swing it a lot more. Look at his first over with the new ball, consistently and continiously beating the batsmen with swing and he continued doing that throughout his spell. He mixed it up in the end in the last over when you're supposed to be bowling fuller deliveries that went for singles. Don't look at the runs he conceded because for the rest of the series Irfan will be key for us and I guarantee you that if he continues to bowl like he did today then there's no way in 50 overs cricket batsmen will hit him around for runs. Just like I said previously in this thread, bowl that inswinging fuller length delivery and you'll pick up wickets and keep the economy down and that's exactly what happened. He got a wicket and didn't go for runs when he was bowling for that swing. He did bowl a few average deliveries and some that McCullum just was too good for but that's ok. Overall a much much better performance and Pathan will be a huge asset for us in ODI matches in this tour if he continues to bowl that swing.

so u r happy,nah?i'm certainly happy with him.n back him bcoz he gives 100% effort like today n can win games.he almost pulled off a miraculous win if not for Mccullum's brilliance

[Lord]

Yes, Irfan bowled ten times better today. Maybe getting the new ball gave him the confidence to use the seam properly and swing it a lot more. Look at his first over with the new ball, consistently and continiously beating the batsmen with swing and he continued doing that throughout his spell. He mixed it up in the end in the last over when you're supposed to be bowling fuller deliveries that went for singles. Don't look at the runs he conceded because for the rest of the series Irfan will be key for us and I guarantee you that if he continues to bowl like he did today then there's no way in 50 overs cricket batsmen will hit him around for runs. Just like I said previously in this thread, bowl that inswinging fuller length delivery and you'll pick up wickets and keep the economy down and that's exactly what happened. He got a wicket and didn't go for runs when he was bowling for that swing. He did bowl a few average deliveries and some that McCullum just was too good for but that's ok. Overall a much much better performance and Pathan will be a huge asset for us in ODI matches in this tour if he continues to bowl that swing. And btw it would be better if you actually analysed his performance and seperated it by the types of deliveries he bowled, which went for runs, which didn't, instead of just saying what you said which is a pretty ordinary comment. :winky:

i think u misinterpreted me.i just wanted to say that even with his normal swinging deliveries he went for runs.u need some variety coupled with normal swing

[cochise]

You know...I am going to take a punt...if Ishant has to sit out the one-dayers, I would go for Gony as a replacement. His height will go well with NZ wickets...it's a bit of long-shot call, but I reckon it could be a masterstroke.

[Fontaine]

so u r happy' date='nah?i'm certainly happy with him.n back him bcoz he gives 100% effort like today n can win games.he almost pulled off a miraculous win if not for Mccullum's brilliance[/quote'] Yes, because Pathan was bowling his natural game.

i think u misinterpreted me.i just wanted to say that even with his normal swinging deliveries he went for runs.u need some variety coupled with normal swing

Well it depends on the bowler. If the bowler doesn't have the kind of control then there's no point bowling variety deliveries that are off target, and that's exactly when Pathan fails. Take a look at his bowling again, most of his boundaries come from trying to bowl slower deliveries, yorkers that turn into full tosses, and bouncers that go wide. When he just keeps is simple and bowls at the offstump line or when he tries to swing it he doesn't really give away a lot of runs compared to those others deliveries. Anyway, I'm pleased because he's bowled to his strength a lot more today and if he keeps this up then he's going to do well in the ODI series and in the future as well.

[cochise]

Yeah...I agree Fontaine. You're spot on in your analysis of Irfan's bowling.

[Fontaine]

Yeah...I agree Fontaine. You're spot on in your analysis of Irfan's bowling.

Cheers mate. It's going to be interesting to see if Dhoni gives the Pathan the new ball in the ODIs. With the swing he was getting early it makes things very difficult for the batsmen to settle down and get their eye in. Maybe bowl Pathan early with the new ball, see if he can get swing and bring in Ishant after 4/5 overs because Ishant doesn't rely on swing as much but his natural angle to the RH batsmen and seam off the pitch.

[Lord]

Cheers mate. It's going to be interesting to see if Dhoni gives the Pathan the new ball in the ODIs. With the swing he was getting early it makes things very difficult for the batsmen to settle down and get their eye in. Maybe bowl Pathan early with the new ball' date=' see if he can get swing and bring in Ishant after 4/5 overs because Ishant doesn't rely on swing as much but his natural angle to the RH batsmen and seam off the pitch.[/quote'] yeah gotta give pathan the new ball.

[sangrock]

Sidhu used to say: "The Kenyan bowlers are not as bad as they look' date=' they are worse.":D[/quote'] :haha::haha::haha: Patience with irfan is not allowing praveen kumar to create havoc in such conditions. irfan should be demoted to 2nd string bowler for indian team.

[sangrock]

so u r happy' date='nah?i'm certainly happy with him.n back him bcoz he gives 100% effort like today n can win games.he almost pulled off a miraculous win if not for Mccullum's brilliance[/quote'] First he gave away match and then you say that he ALMOST pulled off a miraculous win? Had the economy been kept down McCullum would have been forced to play rash shots and might have departed! ECONOMY is what matters and irfan is not economic because he is not accurate. Bowling 10 good balls out of 24 in TT is not enough.. First ball of the MATCH - short, slow and pulled for six.. I was devastated. He did make a come back in that over but next over - i almost cried, 3rd - nice over but 2nd wicket was lucky(that doesnt matter) and the last - 12 off 6 - cummon u can do that!

[Fontaine]

First he gave away match and then you say that he ALMOST pulled off a miraculous win? Had the economy been kept down McCullum would have been forced to play rash shots and might have departed! ECONOMY is what matters and irfan is not economic because he is not accurate. Bowling 10 good balls out of 24 in TT is not enough.. First ball of the MATCH - short, slow and pulled for six.. I was devastated. He did make a come back in that over but next over - i almost cried, 3rd - nice over but 2nd wicket was lucky(that doesnt matter) and the last - 12 off 6 - cummon u can do that!

To be fair to Irfan he had the last over won but the first four in that last over came when Irfan tried to bowl a full length yorker (that he had been bowling very successfully all day) but it slipped out of his hand early and turned into a low full toss outside off and that was an easy four. It happens, pressure situations, a batsmen well set in and your hands get sweaty. He bowled well overall but his economy was bad because he still has the habit of giving away at least one boundary ball per over.