Is Dhoni too defensive as a captain ?

[cowboysfan]

sure -mm is a good guy ,a little bit old fashioned.

[graphic23]

I threw out the challenge to show that a 3rd innings declaration with more than 180-200 overs left in the game rarely happens.. I did not say it NEVER happens. So, to begin with, you have misconstrued the purpose of my challenge. You're kidding right? Ponting is a guy who deliberately kept his frontline bowlers away from the attack and had part-timers bowl at Indian batsman, so that he escapes a match ban, even while compromising his team’s chances of victory. Here, we did not compromise our chances of victory. We were simply short-changed by the Weather Gods.

Ponting's also got a 5-0 series win against England and a 16 consecutive test match wins. We're struggling to put together 2. I completely agree with everyone else here. Batting for one hour on the 4th day was unnecessary. And then the tactics on the 4th day evening were a little bizarre. Nevertheless, he got us the trophy that we've been waiting for since 1968.

[flamy]

Bah, even I'd have liked 2-0. But, nope sorry can do. Dhoni is still an excellent captain, soon to be the best in the world.

[graphic23]

Bah' date=' even I'd have liked 2-0. But, nope sorry can do. Dhoni is still an excellent captain, soon to be the best in the world.[/quote'] No doubts, but it is not wrong to say he erred in this test, knowingly or otherwise. Oh, and I added a new poll option. For myself, now I guess since all the other noobs voted already.

[flamy]

No doubts' date=' but it is not wrong to say he erred in this test, knowingly or otherwise. Oh, and I added a new poll option. For myself, now I guess since all the other noobs voted already.[/quote'] Of course, he did overestimate NZ. Not at all denying that.

[The Outsider]

Regarding the poll, I voted a No because it was a generic question and I don't think Dhoni is a defensive captain in general. However, in the context of the last test it's a no brainer that he was too defensive. You don't set a 600+ run target to a team which made 200 in the first innings on a pitch with something happening throughout the match and bowlers like Zaheer, Harbhajan, and Ishant specially when everyone including Dhoni knew the match would be curtailed by rain(he himself admitted they were looking at 110 overs realistically).

[gaurav92]

Now, if I post scorecards of matches when teams batting last were bowled out in less 120 overs, will you then accept that you are wrong? Besides, your logic is flawed to even to begin with. To say ‘Well, these teams gave themselves a lot of time and they won the match’ seems to imply that the ONLY way to win a match bowling last is to give yourself in excess of 180-200 overs, which is obviously not the case.

well sree i think Dhoni missed a trick here especially when u know that there is a possibility of rain on day 5 and you have 450+ runs on the board....I think dhoni shud hav declared once India reached 500 and have set a target of 501 and for your kind info its very difficult to score 500 on any track on final 2 days against quality Indian bowlers......this was a good bowling track as compared to some others...so dont be so confident on dhoni...hes just too defensive a captain....well thats my opinion and its certainly valid

[Shane]

100 overs good enuf to roll over a mediocre batting line-up, bowlers should cop it

[gaurav92]

100 overs good enuf to roll over a mediocre batting line-up' date=' bowlers should cop it[/quote'] absolutely write shano i think we could have cleaned up New Zelanders if we had declared on day 3 and made New Zelanders to bat for just 5 overs b4 the day ends and set a target of 500......then New Zelanders would have struggled like a lame duck to even survive those two days...:((

[zubinpepsi]

100 overs good enuf to roll over a mediocre batting line-up' date=' bowlers should cop it[/quote'] u say mediocre batting line-up.. but y do u need 600 + to defend against a mediocre batting lineup.. since 100 overis not sure cuz of the weather condition.. shudnt we be lookin for more time to bowl them out rather than more runs to defend??

[Shane]

u say mediocre batting line-up.. but y do u need 600 + to defend against a mediocre batting lineup.. since 100 overis not sure cuz of the weather condition.. shudnt we be lookin for more time to bowl them out rather than more runs to defend??

Never said we needed 600, we got a decent shot at finishing the game and we couldnt, having said that a couple of more overs, we wouldnt have been having this dicussion, rite ?

[zubinpepsi]

^^ exactly.. and the captain shud have taken note of the weather conditions.. shudnt he?? why was 600 required in the 1st place??

[Shane]

^^ exactly.. and the captain shud have taken note of the weather conditions.. shudnt he?? why was 600 required in the 1st place??

Well in retrospect Yes, but Rain was forecasted on both dayz 4 & 5, the decision making gets tedious if there is an unpredicatble element involved. But, i wouldnt call MSD defensive based on one game, its like someone calling Philip Hughes the Best Batsman in the World after 4 innings :winky:

[zubinpepsi]

well he was defensinve against england in the 2nd test... when he was contended with 1-0 rather than pushing for the win.. there was no intention of winning that test.. not even trying ffs.. i think he is no different from the rest of the captains we had who were contended with a series a victory rather than the no.of wins.. says so much abt being aggresive eeh??

[Shane]

well he was defensinve against england in the 2nd test... when he was contended with 1-0 rather than pushing for the win.. there was no intention of winning that test.. not even trying ffs.. i think he is no different from the rest of the captains we had who were contended with a series a victory rather than the no.of wins.. says so much abt being aggresive eeh??

We were 3/44 in the second innings at one stage in that game, if we would have been reckless that day we might have ended up loosing that Test and squndering that series

[Fontaine]

Has anybody bothered to even read Dhoni's comments about why they declared past 600 or are we just declaring Dhoni has become a defensive captain only days after he took a huge gamble on the very first day of the test series by putting NZ in to bat first? I'd just like to know, because it's hard to keep track of how quickly Dhoni is going from a defensive captain (Against England) to an aggressive one, back to a defensive one. Obviously no one here is wrong, and it's Dhoni that keeps changing all that time right.

[zubinpepsi]

Atlast someone talks about this Defendra Dhoni Dark cloud over Dhoni The much-predicted rain came down soon after lunch on the final day in Wellington © Getty Images Joy to the world, an Indian team has won a Test series in New Zealand! Let earth receive her kings. Congratulations to the Indian team. And a resounding well-played to the Black Caps. But reactions to the lack of a result in the third Test, forced upon us by bad light, and a forecast-well-in-advance-rain-shower on the fifth day, puzzle me. For, Dileep Premchandran says: "I don't think you can plan for rain" and Sambit Bal says "You can't really plan around weather". As do a few comments on my regular blog. I must be living in some alternate universe (entirely possible, given that I'm in Kings County, New York State), but for as long I've watched and followed cricket, the one thing Test captains have always done is planned around the weather. They have sent out instructions to batsmen, telling them to hurry up because rain clouds are threatening; they have sent out instructions to batsmen telling them to hang in there because the rain clouds are threatening; they have hustled to get wickets or overs completed for the same reason; and lastly, they have always, always, thought about how much time could be lost to rain (or light, or morning dew) when planning a declaration, or indeed, other tactical moves. At tea time on the third day of the third Test, when Laxman and Gambhir were walking off the field to have a cup of Dilmah Masala Chai (and possibly some complimentary batata vadas and dhoklas sent over by the local Indian tea-shop), India were 448 runs ahead of New Zealand. Let's just stop for a second and examine these figures again. At tea-time on the third day of a Test, the world's No. 3 Test team, had a lead larger than any target successfully chased in the fourth innings of some 1918 tests played in 132 years. Over the world's No. 8 team, one they had bowled out for 197 runs in the first innings of the same Test. Two days later, when the Indian team trooped off the field, they were still looking for the last New Zealand two wickets. When all the various defences about Dhoni's canny captaincy, India's dismal overseas records, the lack of a series win in 40 years in New Zealand, and the apparent incapacity of captains to plan for the weather are done with, something is still a bit rank in all of this. Something was rotten in the fair city Wellington on Tuesday. Why did Dhoni need 600 plus runs on the board? To set attacking fields? Why were 500 runs not enough? Because New Zealand had scored 600 runs in the first innings of the last Test? And if he wanted to set attacking fields then why didn't he set them? I didn't see fields that were consistently the hyper-aggressive fields that a captain with 600 runs on the board could set. (If you want to see aggressive fields for spinners and pacers alike, go find a video of Imran Khan's field settings during the 1982 series against England, his first as captain). If the idea was to get 600 runs on the board and go on all-out attack, then why was the Indian team's demeanour in the post-tea session on the fourth day that of giggling schoolboys? They didn't look like meanies that had put 600 runs on the board and were in your face thereafter. This slackness affected their catching as well; three catches went down on the fifth day itself. (Dileep Premchandran notes that had those been held, India would have won anyway; perhaps; but perhaps the reason they weren't held was that the team's mind wasn't fully set on winning the game as opposed to the series). Dhoni wanted to save the match first. A win was a bonus. He didn't get it and it didn't matter to him. A series win was more important. Fair enough. Those are his objectives. But if he is going to be a truly different Indian Test captain, he will need to snap out of a conservative mind-set that has been characteristic of most that have preceded him. And part of the way to do it is to back yourself and your team to win in lots of different settings. That might include thinking that 500 runs in a fourth-innings chase is enough for most teams in the world. It has been for every team in every Test played thus far in the history of the game. That might also include backing your bowlers to not get worried if someone does attack them a bit during their fourth-innings chase. Such expressions of confidence go beyond making your own team more secure; they also send out a message to your opponents. Doing it the first time might be hard but it can rapidly become a habit. Try it, MSD. I think you'll like it. You have the team for it. ------ completely agree with everything what samir has written.. anyone defending Dhoni on this are simply deluded or they jus dont wanna criticize Dhoni whos beyond criticsims..

[ViruRulez]

His decison was wrong in the third match but he is not defensive .. but again you have to keep in mind one point .. India's public would make him a devil if he loses a match by any chance.. you have to apply your mind and that is what he is trying to do .. and he is trying to play safe as he knows one wrong decision might make him the national villain .. aakhir Indian public or cricket ka sawaal hai :--D

[Fontaine]

Mahendra Singh Dhoni was the unanimous choice as wicketkeeper and No. 7. He also won the votes of Bishop and Shastri as captain. Bishop selected him because of "his charisma, which seems to permeate the Indian dressing-room and bring the best out of his team"; he also noted that India lost in Sri Lanka when Dhoni sat out the series. Among other reasons, Shastri liked "the way he handles the media in a media-frenzied country, and is immensely composed".

Dhoni chosen as captain in the Wisden XI team be a panel of experts. http://content.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/398701.html

[Shane]

Dhoni chosen as captain in the Wisden XI team be a panel of experts. http://content.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/398701.html

:hatsoff: Why is Pwnting in there :angry_smile: