Is Hindi the official national language of India?

[punjabi_khota]

This whole thread has confirmed to me that we will invaded by foreigners just like it was 800 years ago and ass****ed stupid and still wouldn't learn a damn thing. Congratulations!!

Discussion is good.

[Guest Gunner]

Discussion is good.

Yes. Probably we will continue to "discuss" as we were in the above thread while we get invaded. When the muslims were invading Northern India in the 10th and 11th Century, the southerners were invading someone else. This is unparalleled as far as I know in history for complete disunity and disarray. We are a shambles mate. We have no sense of oneness as people. Hell, northerners and southerners dont even marry eachother regularly. What does that tell you about us? The purpose of Hindi as a national language was to achieve unity of people. Based on the above thread do you think that has been borne to fruition? I think not.

[punjabi_khota]

Yes. Probably we will continue to "discuss" as we were in the above thread while we get invaded. When the muslims were invading Northern India in the 10th and 11th Century, the southerners were invading someone else. This is unparalleled as far as I know in history for complete disunity and disarray. We are a shambles mate. We have no sense of oneness as people. Hell, northerners and southerners dont even marry eachother regularly. What does that tell you about us? The purpose of Hindi as a national language was to achieve unity of people. Based on the above thread do you think that has been borne to fruition? I think not.

While it is absolutely important to have sense of one-ness as a nation, I also think that rather than saying we are all the SAME, we should appreciate the differences in various sub-cultures in India. I don't think marrying someone from their own region/religion is bad or backward. Plus, still a majority of marriages in India are arranged, and if the parents have to arrange the marriage, it is going to be within caste/region/religion. When more and more people start having love marriages, the boundaries will disappear (they already are, at least in my friend's circle..I have already seen 2 north-south weddings among my closest friends, one of them being inter religion as well).

[Guest Gunner]

While it is absolutely important to have sense of one-ness as a nation' date=' I also think that rather than saying we are all the SAME, we should appreciate the differences in various sub-cultures in India. I don't think marrying someone from their own region/religion is bad or backward. Plus, still a majority of marriages in India are arranged, and if the parents have to arrange the marriage, it is going to be within caste/region/religion. When more and more people start having love marriages, the boundaries will disappear (they already are, at least in my friend's circle..I have already seen 2 north-south weddings among my closest friends, one of them being inter religion as well).[/quote'] I agree with you that we need to appreciate and cherish the differences. But in many instances the differences lead to us looking down upon one another which is rather shameful in my opinion. I am not saying marrying in the same region/religion is backward but it is to the point that the segregation is very clear in India. More so perhaps than any other nation on earth unfortunately. If you are seeing more people change in their attitude I am happy to hear that mate.:icflove:

[Lurker]

Yes. Probably we will continue to "discuss" as we were in the above thread while we get invaded. When the muslims were invading Northern India in the 10th and 11th Century' date= the southerners were invading someone else. This is unparalleled as far as I know in history for complete disunity and disarray. We are a shambles mate. We have no sense of oneness as people.

I understand where you are coming from but you can not compare 11th century with today. The concept of "nation" is pretty much a modern day phenomenon. The 11th century India was noway a cohesive concept and hence there was no reason for Southerners and Northerens to act the same.

The purpose of Hindi as a national language was to achieve unity of people. Based on the above thread do you think that has been borne to fruition? I think not.

No it has not borne to fruition. The problem, in my opinion, is that concept of unity/nationalism etc is very hard to explain. A person either feels it or he does not. It is similar in nature to immigration discussion. Some people will always feel they are Indian and will never compromise their Indian passports, then there are others who simply dont look at it that way. Yes Hindi should have been atleast given a chance to act as the bonding language.Instead even though it has an overwhelming number on its side it was never allowed that courtsey. xxx

[Lurker]

You think you can get by in Delhi and Mumbai by just knowing English? When I visited Bombay (which has been years ago)' date= even bus numbers were not in English. I would have to remember the shape of the letters to even know which bus to take. WTF!

Kya yaar tum Aise hi bakwaas kar dete ho??? I spent 4 years taking the L-1 bus from SEEPZ to Kandivali. Mulund, Hiranandani, not to mention Thakur Complex peeps can easily confirm that.

[Guest Gunner]

I understand where you are coming from but you can not compare 11th century with today. The concept of "nation" is pretty much a modern day phenomenon. The 11th century India was noway a cohesive concept and hence there was no reason for Southerners and Northerens to act the same.

I do not say that 11th Century India is similar to present day situation however there are still similarities with respect to our disharmony. Replace the kings we had back then with the 543 "Kings" whom we elect now and you can see the similarity of our plight. As people we may have a better sense of togetherness however those who lead us have a very poor sense of such realities. But the question that begs to be answered is will we have the mental fortitude to act together if faced with a dangerous situation in the future?

No it has not borne to fruition. The problem' date=' in my opinion, is that concept of unity/nationalism etc is very hard to explain. A person either feels it or he does not. It is similar in nature to immigration discussion. Some people will always feel they are Indian and will never compromise their Indian passports, then there are others who simply dont look at it that way. [/quote'] Agreed. Nationalism is an elusive concept. My intention is to look for a sense of togetherness and belonging among all Indians towards this great nation of ours. We owe her that much. We will be unable to fulfill our responsibility as I fear we will be defeated by our own arguments and "discussions". It is the time to act particularly for our generation and to discard and reject the demagogery built into our life and culture.

Yes Hindi should have been atleast given a chance to act as the bonding language.Instead even though it has an overwhelming number on its side it was never allowed that courtsey. xxx

Yeh jo baat kahi hai apne dil thod diya hamara. Hum apeksha kartha hain ki aap hamare jo koshish hai Hindi sikhne ki usko tarif karenge. Side Note: Do you like Sahir Ludhianvi as much as Majrooh Sultanpuri?

[Kohum]

Well, if you had bothered to read what I had typed, you would have read that I said this was "years" ago. And even if there are English numbers are on the side now, that is still very difficult cause by the time the bus comes you need to identify the right number by seeing from a distance, get yourself ready in line, etc. Can't be scrambling to read the number only after you have clear side view. But it is progress for the most progressive city in the country to finally find a place on a bus to put some English numbers.

Just lame excuses !!! By definition a plural is anything more than 1. It's usual english practice to specify no. of years to indicate how many more years. Now, the question is: you are advocating that the numbers in BEST buses were not in English. Were the bus numbers of TN in English at that time? are they now? or just jilebis? The point is - you are lamenting that the bus numbers were not in English. But you fail to understand that the majority of people coming to Mumbai know Hindi and thus were helped by the system in place. If you want to have a person from any part of India go to other parts of India and be able to live from the time of establishment, then he/she has to either 1. KNOW the local language 2. Make a common language that people 'know' With option 1, there are way too many languages to KNOW, thus not useful. With option 2, Hindi appears to be Majority population choice sans the south India. Hence this discussion. Why english cannot be the language has been elucidated umpteenth time by Lurker.

[nikred]

Visiting South India can be very difficult sometimes....especially if you are not in the cities. Locals don't understand Hindi at all and can speak only broken English. And yes, you get plenty of dirty looks when you speak Hindi. I don't know how many south Indians got unfairly treated because they don't know English, but I have got plenty of dirty looks in south India for knowing Hindi and not knowing the local language.

Have you ever been to AP? Don't tell me you got dirty looks there, confused looks maybe but dirty I won't believe you. As a matter of fact the telangana region in AP has decent influence of Urdu in the dialect. So i don't see people with such liberal dialect hating on hindi or any other language.

[flamy]

Have you ever been to AP? Don't tell me you got dirty looks there' date=' confused looks maybe but dirty I won't believe you. As a matter of fact the telangana region in AP has decent influence of Urdu in the dialect. So i don't see people with such liberal dialect hating on hindi or any other language.[/quote'] Ditto my village in Andhra. There are people from Bihar and Rajasthan settled down in our village. They are a part of our community. Our bihari friend runs a sweet & snack stall - Lal Sweets - and gives me freebies everytime I visit. Any Hindi speaking 'hindi babu' will be greeted with "acchha chalta hai?" Any North Indians who have visited Tirumala here?

[nikred]

Just lame excuses !!! By definition a plural is anything more than 1. It's usual english practice to specify no. of years to indicate how many more years. Now, the question is: you are advocating that the numbers in BEST buses were not in English. Were the bus numbers of TN in English at that time? are they now? or just jilebis? The point is - you are lamenting that the bus numbers were not in English. But you fail to understand that the majority of people coming to Mumbai know Hindi and thus were helped by the system in place. If you want to have a person from any part of India go to other parts of India and be able to live from the time of establishment, then he/she has to either 1. KNOW the local language 2. Make a common language that people 'know' With option 1, there are way too many languages to KNOW, thus not useful. With option 2, Hindi appears to be Majority population choice sans the south India. Hence this discussion. Why english cannot be the language has been elucidated umpteenth time by Lurker.

But as far as numbers go it always helps to have hindu-arabic numerals instead of hindi numerals. Don't tell me there are people in India who do not understand hindu-arabic numerals but somehow are still able to manage their rupees.:giggle:

[fineleg]

High time that all buses and public utilities in India in any state, use English in addition to regional/Hindi language. (if they dont already).

[Macj]

High time that all buses and public utilities in India in any state' date=' use English in addition to regional/Hindi language. (if they dont already).[/quote'] I was in Chennai recently and all numbers are in the Hindu numeral system. The TN government gives you a 1.5% incentive to use Tamil numerals on your vehicle number plates, this type of BS is what brings them to power.

[Lurker]

But the question that begs to be answered is will we have the mental fortitude to act together if faced with a dangerous situation in the future?

That is a very deep question indeed and one that needs to be given due importance. It is kind of frightening, and shameful, when you hear an overwhelming number of experts suggest that two things bind India - Bollywood and Cricket. Can you imagine an American (even the right wing FOX channel) suggesting its American Football that binds US together? Or Chinese suggesting it is gymnastics, or Russia chess or whatever they are good at this days? It is strange to see India being "bound" by ideas that are not even remotely Indian. Cricket is an English invention, nothing against it, as in Movies. English falls in the same category. Somehow as a nation we excel in borrowing a concept and then customizing it for our needs. No wonder we succeeded in IT where that is exactly what we do 90% of the time!

Agreed. Nationalism is an elusive concept. My intention is to look for a sense of togetherness and belonging among all Indians towards this great nation of ours. We owe her that much. We will be unable to fulfill our responsibility as I fear we will be defeated by our own arguments and "discussions". It is the time to act particularly for our generation and to discard and reject the demagogery built into our life and culture.

Totally agree. My gripe is that in modern day India every Indian seems to only realize his/her rights and no duties as such. In fact there is a good chance if you raise issues of duties towards nation you would be looked as being preachy. Right now a big churning on is going in India. The gap is increasing between rich and poor, both at an individual level and state level. If we do not raise vital questions right now we are going to land in big time soup.

Yeh jo baat kahi hai apne dil thod diya hamara. Hum apeksha kartha hain ki aap hamare jo koshish hai Hindi sikhne ki usko tarif karenge.

Bhai taarif kya hum to aapko sar pe bitha ke rakhenge janaab. Hindi jubaan ko jaane dein agar logon ka dil kare to Marathi hi pakad lo bhai. Humne kab mana kiya hai?? Lekin kissi ek Hindustani bhaasha ko to rashtrabhaasha ka darja do. Aur aap koshish badastur jaari rakhiye hum aapke saath hain :--D

Side Note: Do you like Sahir Ludhianvi as much as Majrooh Sultanpuri?

I loveeeee Sahir Ludhianvi. One of the best exponents of poetry we have ever produced. To tell you the truth I love writers and everyone from Sahir, Kaifi, Shakeel to Indeevar, Neeraj, Gulzar gets my adulations. Are you a Sahir fan by any chance? xxx

[Lurker]

Have you ever been to AP? Don't tell me you got dirty looks there' date=' confused looks maybe but dirty I won't believe you.[b'] As a matter of fact the telangana region in AP has decent influence of Urdu in the dialect. So i don't see people with such liberal dialect hating on hindi or any other language.

Andhra does not have a anti-Hindi bias. Most of the Andhrites I know, specially those from Hyderabad-Secundrabad area have a decent knowledge of Hindi. In fact their Hindi laced with English is generally what is seen/observed in most North Indian states these days. Major reason for this of course is the Urdu impact on local language. This would take me back to the whole point I have raised earlier, most of the Indian Muslims have a good Urdu background which in turn makes them extremely comfortable with Hindi. xxx

[Macj]

Andhra does not have a anti-Hindi bias. Most of the Andhrites I know, specially those from Hyderabad-Secundrabad area have a decent knowledge of Hindi. In fact their Hindi laced with English is generally what is seen/observed in most North Indian states these days. Major reason for this of course is the Urdu impact on local language. This would take me back to the whole point I have raised earlier, most of the Indian Muslims have a good Urdu background which in turn makes them extremely comfortable with Hindi. xxx

My Hindi teacher at school a Muslim forbade anyone using Urdu words in essays or even in speech. At the time didnt think much of it but now it astounds me to no end.

[Guest Gunner]

That is a very deep question indeed and one that needs to be given due importance. It is kind of frightening, and shameful, when you hear an overwhelming number of experts suggest that two things bind India - Bollywood and Cricket. Can you imagine an American (even the right wing FOX channel) suggesting its American Football that binds US together? Or Chinese suggesting it is gymnastics, or Russia chess or whatever they are good at this days? It is strange to see India being "bound" by ideas that are not even remotely Indian. Cricket is an English invention, nothing against it, as in Movies. English falls in the same category. Somehow as a nation we excel in borrowing a concept and then customizing it for our needs. No wonder we succeeded in IT where that is exactly what we do 90% of the time!

I have a theory behind these state of affairs, majority of the Indians do not identify with the freedom struggle. The overwhelming majority have the following attitude, Gandhi was a great guy, he did something unique and the result was freedom. Not many people see greatness in themselves, if they did not only would they associate with the freedom struggle but also with the nation first. Secondly, as Indians we don't have the habit of saying often enough that "our nation is great" unlike the Americans who do it every other sentence. Perhaps this is associated with the shame of our own failings on many fronts may it be foreign policy or economy for the first 40 odd years of freedom. I believe that those who are around 25 to 30 and the next generation will be able to say it more often and also confidently. This should bring us closer. Finally, lot of the divisions have to do with the stereotypes such as kaala like a south Indian, mota ya bewakoof like a punjabi and so on. Instead of highlighting the intelligenc of the South Indians and the sheer bravery of the Punjabis we take joy in pointing out these so called deficiences. As this changes, the divisions should dissappear. This will certainly be my hope and prayer for my country. I start by being different myself, the rest can make their own choices. I am a south Indian born in the north and have seen the best of all India has to offer. I am proud to be Indian first and all else later. We have to find commonality first on the basis of the great country that we have, the very cradle of civilisation first, this will eventually displace all other things like English, Cricket etc.

Totally agree. My gripe is that in modern day India every Indian seems to only realize his/her rights and no duties as such. In fact there is a good chance if you raise issues of duties towards nation you would be looked as being preachy. Right now a big churning on is going in India. The gap is increasing between rich and poor' date=' both at an individual level and state level. If we do not raise vital questions right now we are going to land in big time soup.[/quote'] We have a deep sense of entitlement. We think we deserve everything we get. We never consider the flip side of the millions who do not even get what they should. This sense of entitlement ruins everything. Bereft of this attitude no one would spit or piss where it says no to. We would look for a garbage bin to throw away a wrap, we would not attempt to bribe officers to jump queues. The malaise is the sense of entitlement Indians in general have. If we learn to respect the value of what we have, then we will look to find out what our duties are. This is why the sense of nationhood and what we owe to our Mother country should precede all else, everything else will automatically fall into place.

Bhai taarif kya hum to aapko sar pe bitha ke rakhenge janaab. Hindi jubaan ko jaane dein agar logon ka dil kare to Marathi hi pakad lo bhai. Humne kab mana kiya hai?? Lekin kissi ek Hindustani bhaasha ko to rashtrabhaasha ka darja do. Aur aap koshish badastur jaari rakhiye hum aapke saath hain :--D

Zaara smbhal ke lurker saab, aap ne is vishay pe phir se ek bahut bade vivad ke liye darwaza khol diya hai. Agar aap ye kahthe ki koi bhi hindustani bhaasha ko rashtrabasha ka darza diya jaaye, tho tamil, ya bengali, ya Punjabi kyun nahi. Yeh to who baat hui ki kutta aap ne poonch pakad ne pe laga hua hai. Meri ye rai hain ki ham yehi maan ke chalein ki Hindi rashta baasha hai aur jiski marzi woh seekhen. Baat khatam. Urdu aur hindi ki jo hum milaap karthe hain us pe aap ka kya vichaar hai?

I loveeeee Sahir Ludhianvi. One of the best exponents of poetry we have ever produced. To tell you the truth I love writers and everyone from Sahir, Kaifi, Shakeel to Indeevar, Neeraj, Gulzar gets my adulations. Are you a Sahir fan by any chance? xxx

I am indeed a sahir fan. I am also a fan of Rumi, Khayyam and several other persian poets. We can open a seperate thread to talk abt this wonderful subject. I have honestly been waiting to talk about this with someone who shares my interest. Indeed sahir is probably the best we produced. Kabhi kabhi....

[Lurker]

This is a good discussion Gunner and I do hope people reading this thread would look beyond the arguments/dislike and delve more into the deeper issues at bare here.

I have a theory behind these state of affairs, majority of the Indians do not identify with the freedom struggle. The overwhelming majority have the following attitude, Gandhi was a great guy, he did something unique and the result was freedom. Not many people see greatness in themselves, if they did not only would they associate with the freedom struggle but also with the nation first.

I will speak with both sides of my mouth on this one. On one hand yes it is true modern day Indians like Gandhi but at the same time it is also true that they simply do not know enough about Gandhi, or for that matter Nehru and Patel and Rajendra Prasad etc. A personal titbit here, when I was doing my Engineering summer internship (HEC Ranchi incidentally) I tried to get up at 4 am and then make myself a big bowl of spinach soup. After which would follow an hour of warjish. The reason was because this was what Ramprasad Bismil would do and obviously I wanted to follow him. Now I dont want to be a judge on modern day Indians but ask yourself how many of us do know about Bismil?? Khud ki taareef nahin kar reha hoon bas aise hi ek baat jehan mein aa gayi. I remember a thread sometime back where many wondered why history, civics, arts and language were even taught in school? Afterall they were a waste of time(atleast I got that impression).

Secondly, as Indians we don't have the habit of saying often enough that "our nation is great" unlike the Americans who do it every other sentence. Perhaps this is associated with the shame of our own failings on many fronts may it be foreign policy or economy for the first 40 odd years of freedom. I believe that those who are around 25 to 30 and the next generation will be able to say it more often and also confidently. This should bring us closer.

I think as a nation we just do not know enough about ourselves. Why would one have a sense of "greatness"? With what? Surely citizens have to relate with each other to have a feeling of greatness. That "relation" comes from Sachin Tendulkar. And so many Indians rever him as God. WTF?? I am with Gautam Gambhir when he says "I can idolize Bhagat Singh, how can I idolize a cricketer?". The discussion around Hindi has to be looked in this regard. Sure it is fantastic to celebrate diversity, as we rightly should, but what about Unity? What unites us? How criminally insane is the fact that we have to resort to Bollywood-English-cricket to show unity in India!

We have to find commonality first on the basis of the great country that we have, the very cradle of civilisation first, this will eventually displace all other things like English, Cricket etc.

You have hit the nail on the head. There has to be a sense of commonality. That commonality will lift the nation, make us a large and thriving country without boundaries. Right now we are all one yet different. I am reminded of the time I travelled from Howrah to Thiruvanthapuram. Every state that I passed through was distinctly different, Bengal used sarson ka tel, Kerela used coconut oil. The dress people wore, the smell of the food everything was different. And yet there was a commonality - every railway platform had the local station name in English! Less than 10% of speakers and it takes precedence over 60% population.

Zaara smbhal ke lurker saab, aap ne is vishay pe phir se ek bahut bade vivad ke liye darwaza khol diya hai. Agar aap ye kahthe ki koi bhi hindustani bhaasha ko rashtrabasha ka darza diya jaaye, tho tamil, ya bengali, ya Punjabi kyun nahi. Yeh to who baat hui ki kutta aap ne poonch pakad ne pe laga hua hai. Meri ye rai hain ki ham yehi maan ke chalein ki Hindi rashta baasha hai aur jiski marzi woh seekhen. Baat khatam.

To quote Veeru from Sholay (and yes I am a movie buff) - Ab bol hi diya hai partner to dekh lenge! Mera aisa sochna hai ke Hindustan ko jodne waali ek bhaasha honi chahiye. Ek bhaasa jismein saare log prakaand pundit na bhi ho magar apne vicharon ko vyakt karne ka samarthya rakhte hon. Hindi ka palda baaki saare bhaasaon se bhaari hai. Lekin agar koi bhaashawaadi yeh bahas karte hain ke Marathi ya Punjabi ya Bengali sheekhna behtar hoga to mujhe usse bhi kuch shikayat nahin hai. Shikayat mujhse is baat se hai ke log kahte hain Hindi waale bhaasha thop rahe hain. Kahan thop rahe hain bhai?? Yehan to ulti Ganga bah rahi hai.

Urdu aur hindi ki jo hum milaap karthe hain us pe aap ka kya vichaar hai?

Main to bilkool mast hoon Ganga-Jamuna tahzeeb pe. Jehan tak mera sawaal hai to Hindi-Urdu are conjoint twins. You can not seperate the two without killing the soul. Lunguistic can fight all they want to show how Hindi is different from Urdu but the fact remains is both enrich each other and it is impossible to know where one ends and other starts. Aapka kya sochna hai is baare mein?

I am indeed a sahir fan. I am also a fan of Rumi, Khayyam and several other persian poets. We can open a seperate thread to talk abt this wonderful subject. I have honestly been waiting to talk about this with someone who shares my interest. Indeed sahir is probably the best we produced. Kabhi kabhi....

Arre Gurudev aap to pahoonche huye fakeer hain! Rumi Khayaam wah! Arre jaroor kholiye thread hum poore junoon se ghusenge usmein bhai. Halaanki hamari jaankari Persian mein thori kam hai lekin Urdu ke liye barabar waqt hai. Hum ussi school se talooq rakhte hain jis pathshaala mein Gulzar saab ne likha tha - Woh yaar hai jo khusbu ki tarah jiski jubaan Urdu ki tarah.. xx

[Macj]

I think as a nation we just do not know enough about ourselves. Why would one have a sense of "greatness"? With what? Surely citizens have to relate with each other to have a feeling of greatness.

Sure we dont, you want to know why? Because our history books contain BS, its all toned down to appease a certain section of our society and limit the extent of their (mis)deeds to our ancestors. It takes independent reading to dig up what actually happened to us and our nation.

[Lurker]

Sure we dont, you want to know why? Because our history books contain BS, its all toned down to appease a certain section of our society and limit the extent of their (mis)deeds to our ancestors. It takes independent reading to dig up what actually happened to us and our nation.

Yes. And Americans are fat as hell because McDonald's uses saturated fats. Young generations do online piracy because they need to see a movie every week and why pay 10$ for a cr@ppy movie! I mean bhai saheb can we start owning to ourselves?? In the era of Google any information you seek is at your fingertips. Read 10 different version and make up your own mind. What you are looking for is 1 unblemished source of information that you can then read up on and claim to know the subject. Sorry it does not work like that in India, nor does it work anywhere else. xxx