Lurker Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 I am also against piracy but I also realize that computer literacy and IT success in India has also a lot to do with piracy .. imagine if there would have been no piracy would a normal Indian able to learn Windows or MS Office which costs hundreds of dollars apiece.. leave alone higher softwares even the basic softwares and language are so costly that a normal Indian would not have been able to afford it ... it would have resulted in a lot lesser people being good in computers and IT In retrospect that would not have been such a bad idea. You only have to walk through the streets of Hyderabad where everything from SAP to SharePoint is being "taught" on pirated versions. You can see the pamplets in the streets lying just as you would see naked pics of escorts in Vegas on the Strip. You think all these itsy bitsy two pound penny stores use licensed version? Get Real. Come to think of it, it was the same with the big companies when I started working. TCSs and Wipros would depend on the clients to send them the software. I can vividly recall us TCSers eagerly wanting to join X project because it was with a Y overseas client that would send Oracles/Informaticas/SAPs CD to offshore and thus we would learn. So yes you are right Indian IT was built this way. Sad. xxx
graphic23 Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 In retrospect that would not have been such a bad idea. You only have to walk through the streets of Hyderabad where everything from SAP to SharePoint is being "taught" on pirated versions. You can see the pamplets in the streets lying just as you would see naked pics of escorts in Vegas on the Strip. You think all these itsy bitsy two pound penny stores use licensed version? Get Real. Come to think of it, it was the same with the big companies when I started working. TCSs and Wipros would depend on the clients to send them the software. I can vividly recall us TCSers eagerly wanting to join X project because it was with a Y overseas client that would send Oracles/Informaticas/SAPs CD to offshore and thus we would learn. So yes you are right Indian IT was built this way. Sad. xxx That is shocking. I did not know that. One of the top corporates in India going through so much pain to obtain software is unbelievable. Regarding the workshops in Hyderabad, I trained at the NIIT Centre for a while, and they had very professional staff, and a great teacher. But I was too young to know whether they were pirating the copies of Windows on which I learned a lot or not. But given my recent experiences, I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Piracy of software, music, movies, etc. in India is unbelievable. On my last trip there, I was searching for (relatively) old songs of Ilayaraja (and other musicians of his age), and I kid you not -- not a single store would actually have the CD of the "mp3s" they would offer to burn for me. So I was distraught of not being able to get legal versions of the music and instead wanted to buy the whole DVDs so I would later perhaps rip out the songs from the movies - and again, I got an offer for 5 movies on 1 DVD - of very poor quality. Its unbelievable how deeply piracy is entangled (not the physics way) into the Indian society. :(( It really is very sad.
Lurker Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 That is shocking. I did not know that. One of the top corporates in India going through so much pain to obtain software is unbelievable. I should probably clarify lest I bring undue criticism. Wipros and TCSs did not advocate piracy. What they did do, rather did not do, was to spend any money on their own in purchasing softwares legally. Bulk of the time the employees would be given 2 day training by a senior who was working on the same platform in a different project. Then it became the responsibility of the trainee to learn it. And of course once the software was installed off-shore 10 developers would log in even if the license was for 1. Most on-siters from my time would know where I am coming from. Yes these companies made a lot of money but did not spend anything to bring the employees up the value chain. This was also partially the reason why the average year spent in a top Indian IT company used to be under 3-5 years back then (not sure of it now). xxx
ViruRulez Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 That is shocking. I did not know that. One of the top corporates in India going through so much pain to obtain software is unbelievable. Regarding the workshops in Hyderabad, I trained at the NIIT Centre for a while, and they had very professional staff, and a great teacher. But I was too young to know whether they were pirating the copies of Windows on which I learned a lot or not. But given my recent experiences, I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Piracy of software, music, movies, etc. in India is unbelievable. On my last trip there, I was searching for (relatively) old songs of Ilayaraja (and other musicians of his age), and I kid you not -- not a single store would actually have the CD of the "mp3s" they would offer to burn for me. So I was distraught of not being able to get legal versions of the music and instead wanted to buy the whole DVDs so I would later perhaps rip out the songs from the movies - and again, I got an offer for 5 movies on 1 DVD - of very poor quality. Its unbelievable how deeply piracy is entangled (not the physics way) into the Indian society. :(( It really is very sad. I was just thinking what are your ideas about China where piracy and hacking are almost officially recognized by the Chinese govt. :hmmm:
flamy Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 It is not stealing because you are not taking away the original item from the 'victim'. w00t
Rajiv Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Little to do with India' date= more to do with Indians. I mean many people inside this thread, and others, have suggested how to beat piracy! I am with Graphic on this one. Dont buy things you can not afford. Piracy is stealing and cheating. Simple as ... I beg to differ, watching "unofficial" video ( cricket or clip ) on youtube is also equivalent to piracy as well and everyone has done that
EnterTheVoid Posted May 9, 2009 Author Posted May 9, 2009 See, this is my position Why should I pay $ 100 odd dollars or thereabouts for a software such as Mat lab when everyone else is downloading it for free ? In all my years, I only had to use the basic Matlab functions such as arrays / graphs etc and the Simulink DSP software. I have never used the Financial toolbox etc, so why should I pay for something I am never going to use ? And than pay money for updates, enhancements etc. Fat chance, I aint doing it. It has been a longtime since I downloaded any software, although I frequently download movies and songs. I still want to use MS Office 2007. I'll try downloading from rapidshare, with bits and pieces downloaded from different places, i.e. at home, library, university computers etc. If worse comes to worse, and it is too tedious, I'll just ask someone else, as I know they'll tell me to go download it first As for piracy in India, here's my take: I went to a local video shop to get a pirated copy of an English movie I wanted. He proceeded to show me a cheap, crummy VCD copy. Than, I saw him using the "NERO" software to burn the movie. I brought 150 - 200 rps worth of pirated movies, but the quality was so piss poor I threw them away.
EnterTheVoid Posted May 9, 2009 Author Posted May 9, 2009 Some books cost in the upwards of 70, 80, 90 dollars. You can't exactly download an ebook and print all the pages. I see it as a way of evening things about. Somethings I defintely have to fork out 100 bucks for, whilst others that cost $100 that are available for free, even if it is illegal, I will use them for free
Lurker Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I beg to differ' date=' [b']watching "unofficial" video ( cricket or clip ) on youtube is also equivalent to piracy as well and everyone has done that Indeed. But surely there is a difference between someone watching a video or a live stream every now and then as compared to someone else who has his entire laptop, software, iPod, MP3 collection built out of pirated versions.
pan_walla Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Indeed. But surely there is a difference between someone watching a video or a live stream every now and then as compared to someone else who has his entire laptop, software, iPod, MP3 collection built out of pirated versions. No difference. You either live by the high standards you set or stop judging others :giggle: If you murder someone then you are a murderer. Serial murderer or part time murderer are just details. I have played the mug game of paying out of my own pocket for each and everything but now I am selective.
Rajiv Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Indeed. But surely there is a difference between someone watching a video or a live stream every now and then as compared to someone else who has his entire laptop, software, iPod, MP3 collection built out of pirated versions. Little or more, crime is the same
Lurker Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Little or more' date=' crime is the same[/quote'] Thats akin to saying an alocoholic and someone who enjoys his sip of wine every now and then are the same. No they are not.
DomainK Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Thats akin to saying an alocoholic and someone who enjoys his sip of wine every now and then are the same. No they are not. Wrong comparison. We are talking about breaking law here. So if you are breaking law after a sip of wine, its the same as breaking law after getting piss drunk. If you are stealing one Rupee, you are still a thief. If you are killing just one man, you are still a murderer.
EnterTheVoid Posted May 10, 2009 Author Posted May 10, 2009 Regarding the analogy provided by Lurker in post 72, its a crime all the same as far as the copy right companies are concerned However, they go after the "big fish" - i.e. those that actively make pirated copies, sell them etc as opposed to those who download every now and than. Its just not worth their time to go after everyone Get the big fish and hope that serves as an example to the rest
Lurker Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Wrong comparison. We are talking about breaking law here. So if you are breaking law after a sip of wine' date=' its the same as breaking law after getting piss drunk. If you are stealing one Rupee, you are still a thief. If you are killing just one man, you are still a murderer.[/quote'] Nope that analogy is indeed correct. I person who has killed another person (as a first offence)stands much better chances of going scot free than a mass murderer/serial killer. In fact any legal course pretty much starts with establishing the track record of the "criminal" and to show how this was not exactly a one-off situation but something the culprit routinely indulges in. In fact most of the modern world works legally in "3 strike and you are out" manner. In the end pretty much what the modern-day-pirates ( :winky: ) do is to fight their personal battle (read illegal activities) based on the fact that there is a vast number of people who indulge in it from time to time. However in my notion it is pretty much BS. xxx
Lurker Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Regarding the analogy provided by Lurker in post 72, its a crime all the same as far as the copy right companies are concerned However, they go after the "big fish" - i.e. those that actively make pirated copies, sell them etc as opposed to those who download every now and than. Its just not worth their time to go after everyone Get the big fish and hope that serves as an example to the rest Lot more than that. You have 2 set of users, broadly speaking: a) A set of user who indulge in watching live streams, videos, downloads etc from time to time. b) Another set of user who pretty much do most of their online activities this way unless they absolutely have to pay. Set a) hardly does any damage to anyone, set b) obviously does. In fact if you take out set b) the former set (a) will cease to exist. Definitely does not work that way around. xxx
Rajiv Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I thought we were talking about the concept of "piracy", else its obvious that you will be caught if you do it over and over. About the alcohol analogy, lets put a twist to it Piracy is like a religion which says you break the rules if you consumed alcohol, ie., in this case you broke the rule when you watched an illegal clip IN ether case, you can ask for forgiveness if you didn't know what you were doing - in this case the priest for religion, similarly a warning from the ISP which is the normal practice So, if you repeat it over and over - no one will forgive and you got the pay the price BUT, today there are so many sites for downloading and/or watching videos that it becomes difficult for one to know whats legal and whats not. I can tell you for a fact that many think Lime wire is legal !! despite of them having a warning
THX_1138 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 rapidshare wont get into much problem themselves because: 1) They will debate that the users are responsible. Check ther terms of service and you will see copyrighted objects uploading is aganist their terms. So, they wil debate that they are not responsible. 2) Most importantly they are not US company. They are German company and I dont think the piracy laws are as strict in Germany as it is in US or Australia. they went after the pirate bay managers in socialist sweden... you think germany would be a safe haven? the only supposed safe haven is indonesia, vietnam, and parts of south asia.
THX_1138 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Little to do with India, more to do with Indians. I mean many people inside this thread, and others, have suggested how to beat piracy! I am with Graphic on this one. Dont buy things you can not afford. Piracy is stealing and cheating. Simple as ... mate i hope you did not mean me! i was enumerating the ways you can be caught! furthermore i recommended purchase of discounted, but legal software... and the use of openware.
THX_1138 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 See, this is my position Why should I pay $ 100 odd dollars or thereabouts for a software such as Mat lab when everyone else is downloading it for free ? In all my years, I only had to use the basic Matlab functions such as arrays / graphs etc and the Simulink DSP software. I have never used the Financial toolbox etc, so why should I pay for something I am never going to use ? And than pay money for updates, enhancements etc. Fat chance, I aint doing it. It has been a longtime since I downloaded any software, although I frequently download movies and songs. I still want to use MS Office 2007. I'll try downloading from rapidshare, with bits and pieces downloaded from different places, i.e. at home, library, university computers etc. If worse comes to worse, and it is too tedious, I'll just ask someone else, as I know they'll tell me to go download it first As for piracy in India, here's my take: I went to a local video shop to get a pirated copy of an English movie I wanted. He proceeded to show me a cheap, crummy VCD copy. Than, I saw him using the "NERO" software to burn the movie. I brought 150 - 200 rps worth of pirated movies, but the quality was so piss poor I threw them away. you know when someone uses the following phrases "everyone knows..." or "everyone does..." or "everyone is...", for some reason i have this image from a christian amanpore documentary on pakistan, of a young late teens lad in the narrow streets of peshawar, vehemently decrying american presence in the region and when quizzed on the connection of al queda with the region and 9/11, he would respond with "everyone knows that 9/11 was a zionist consipracy"... grow up mate, you steal because you find it convenient... you steal because you are cheap. i steal because i cant afford it, and my needs exceed my means... but i am a poor graduate student and i have curbed my kleptomania by capping my desires, and purchasing discounted software... what's your excuse?
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