fineleg Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 ^ oh God! :D Now, even in beliefs that people have, do they have to follow the scientists? :)
flamy Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 Isaac Newton believed in God. Albert Einstein believed in God. Both men were infinitely smarter than you, come out with your quote of reason and see if anyone gives a damn. But what is God? p.s. :finger: to bambis
punjabi_khota Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 Isaac Newton believed in God. Albert Einstein believed in God. Both men were infinitely smarter than you, come out with your quote of reason and see if anyone gives a damn. Newton thought everything is governed by his classical laws, which is wrong. Einstein thought 'God" doesn't play dice, but later on, with the quantum mechanics coming to fore, it seems like "he" does. There are a lot of great scientists and thinkers who have been very religious, but on the other hand, there have been equally many who were staunch athiests. You can pick and chose, but it doesn't make the "for God" argument any stronger.
flamy Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 It is quite ok to form your opinions rather than adopt one of a "great man".
Macj Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 Newton thought everything is governed by his classical laws, which is wrong. Einstein thought 'God" doesn't play dice, but later on, with the quantum mechanics coming to fore, it seems like "he" does. There are a lot of great scientists and thinkers who have been very religious, but on the other hand, there have been equally many who were staunch athiests. You can pick and chose, but it doesn't make the "for God" argument any stronger. Yes and I have picked , you too can pick what and who you wish to follow, but you should know that there are some gaping holes in the definition and explanation of our existence that science just cannot answer. Sure, theories come out everyday about them but with no absolute certainty. Religion is not meant to restrict or impose sanction on thought, on the contrary it should encourage it. As far as I know only the Abrahamic religions 'impose' anything on its followers. Hinduism at least the Advaita Vedanta is a way of living life more than anything else, to achieve the Brahman, perfection of living. 'God' is not an accurate translation of this entity which effectively means a Supreme Cosmic Spirit of truth and knowledge, which is what we all seek to find, atheist or theist.
punjabi_khota Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Yes and I have picked , you too can pick what and who you wish to follow, but you should know that there are some gaping holes in the definition and explanation of our existence that science just cannot answer. Sure, theories come out everyday about them but with no absolute certainty. Religion is not meant to restrict or impose sanction on thought, on the contrary it should encourage it. As far as I know only the Abrahamic religions 'impose' anything on its followers. Hinduism at least the Advaita Vedanta is a way of living life more than anything else, to achieve the Brahman, perfection of living. 'God' is not an accurate translation of this entity which effectively means a Supreme Cosmic Spirit of truth and knowledge, which is what we all seek to find, atheist or theist. Sure, and a little of what I know, it has some solid reasoning behind everything it preaches. That is absolutely fine by me. As long as we look at the stuff in religious books as some sort of guiding principles (with a good helping of salt), and not absolute truth (ahem...like 'they' do), I think we should be all fine. All I am saying is, reading any kind of holy texts or believing in God/supreme power is not going to tell us anything about the mysteries of the physical world as we see it. We need hard scientific endeavor for that. This message brought to you by a seeker of grant from the NSF/NASA/ONR.
Desi Cartman Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Religion is awesome It helps people contril anxiety , stress and depression. It helps people adhere to basic laws of society. I have always said that Religion is an answer to all unanswered questions till they get answered by science. It helps people overcome fear of Death, the end. You know that when people are depressed they think how does it matter if I die now or 60 years later, how does it matter if I dont have a family or kids etc etc. Very intelligent questions in my opinion but what can stop these depressed people from killing themselves after realizing that their life is as important as a cockroach in the universe ? The answer is God or motivation. When I was depressed I tried to find both .. I couldnt find God but due to medicine I did find some motivation finally. However, go to any ashram , Mathura , Church , masjid .. what people are doing is very simple .. they are trying to ignore their problems by beleiving that Something else will take care of it. Its a very good mechanism to avoid mental problems IMO. I used to think religious people are stupid , they are scared of god etc etc which can be true but I have also found that these people are using God to resolve their problems or take care of them or answer their questions while they try to calm themselves down. I respect religious people more than before since its not easy to medidate or pray , its not easy to discipline but religious people can do it.
flamy Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Very good points, desi. Totally agree. Although, the same can be achieved by just being spiritual and meditative and introspective and contemplative. But, yes religion is "easier"
fineleg Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Good point, desi. The one downside is that thinking someone else will "take care of issues" like you have mentioned can be a dangerous assumption. What if people fail to act to change things, thinking "it will be taken care of by someone else"? Thats the risk with over zealous belief in all things are destined and are the act of someone else.
Ram Posted June 20, 2009 Author Posted June 20, 2009 Religion is awesome It helps people contril anxiety , stress and depression. It helps people adhere to basic laws of society. I have always said that Religion is an answer to all unanswered questions till they get answered by science. It helps people overcome fear of Death, the end. You know that when people are depressed they think how does it matter if I die now or 60 years later, how does it matter if I dont have a family or kids etc etc. Very intelligent questions in my opinion but what can stop these depressed people from killing themselves after realizing that their life is as important as a cockroach in the universe ? The answer is God or motivation. When I was depressed I tried to find both .. I couldnt find God but due to medicine I did find some motivation finally. However, go to any ashram , Mathura , Church , masjid .. what people are doing is very simple .. they are trying to ignore their problems by beleiving that Something else will take care of it. Its a very good mechanism to avoid mental problems IMO. I used to think religious people are stupid , they are scared of god etc etc which can be true but I have also found that these people are using God to resolve their problems or take care of them or answer their questions while they try to calm themselves down. I respect religious people more than before since its not easy to medidate or pray , its not easy to discipline but religious people can do it. I understand and appreciate the role faith has played in your life in some tough times Desi and I am not trying to belittle it at all, but the point most of us here are trying to make is - Just because something works, it does not mean it has to be true. And it the the TRUTH that all of us are after here. I know this analogy may sound totally out of context, but just like how you found solace and hope in faith, people find respite from troubled times by using drugs. Does that mean thats a good thing? Of course not.
Desi Cartman Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Good point, desi. The one downside is that thinking someone else will "take care of issues" like you have mentioned can be a dangerous assumption. What if people fail to act to change things, thinking "it will be taken care of by someone else"? Thats the risk with over zealous belief in all things are destined and are the act of someone else. There is a saying to take care of that as well "God only helps who help themselves " :nice: There are many other sayings .. My religious uncle-aunty visited us couple of weeks ago and they explained why there is pain in life .... "its like a child has a pimple & the parents know that the child needs to get it operated, the child will have pain but its for the greater good of the child but only parents know it.. the child doesnt" ... well that makes sense to people who want to believe in god although it doesn't explain why there is so much pain and suffering when there is an almighty god looking after ALL of us: World hunger reaches 1 billion mark: United Nations
Desi Cartman Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I understand and appreciate the role faith has played in your life in some tough times Desi and I am not trying to belittle it at all, but the point most of us here are trying to make is - Just because something works, it does not mean it has to be true. And it the the TRUTH that all of us are after here. I know this analogy may sound totally out of context, but just like how you found solace and hope in faith, people find respite from troubled times by using drugs. Does that mean thats a good thing? Of course not. :giggle: lol maybe I didnt make it clear ... Religion didnt help much in my case but what Im saying is that it helps a lot of people . My long post = :fail: :mama:
DomainK Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I usually avoid such discussions because I think the problem is that we speak loudly with insufficient knowledge. Its a topic that should be debated by scholars who know enough. I don't have any objection to those who don't believe in God. It's a personal choice where you place your faith. How many of you, who believe that God does not exist, have studied religions and spiritualism in depth enough to reject it? How many of you, who believe that God does exist has put enough efforts to find out that he actually exists? None. I said that I am not religious. But I do not necessarily claim that I am right in being so. Quite a lot of ways of life prescribed in religion contribute towards a good life for body, mind and soul. Many times we pick up a belief/opinion that is convenient to our comforts. Quite a lot of times we create arguments to prove that what we are doing is right. We so many times try to justify that what we do is right. So when it comes to topics like these, most of do what is convenient to us and then we try to justify it.
nikred Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I usually avoid such discussions because I think the problem is that we speak loudly with insufficient knowledge. Its a topic that should be debated by scholars who know enough. I don't have any objection to those who don't believe in God. It's a personal choice where you place your faith. How many of you, who believe that God does not exist, have studied religions and spiritualism in depth enough to reject it? How many of you, who believe that God does exist has put enough efforts to find out that he actually exists? None. I said that I am not religious. But I do not necessarily claim that I am right in being so. Quite a lot of ways of life prescribed in religion contribute towards a good life for body, mind and soul. Many times we pick up a belief/opinion that is convenient to our comforts. Quite a lot of times we create arguments to prove that what we are doing is right. We so many times try to justify that what we do is right. So when it comes to topics like these, most of do what is convenient to us and then we try to justify it. That is one more reason I am agnostic. I have very superficial knowledge of most of the religions in the world. I was born hindu and grew up following couple of deities and been foolishly good and helpful to many people and I took lots of kicks in life due to that. This left me a little dejected as I was confused why god is not helping me even when I am good to everyone. I lost faith in god but still I help anyone WITHIN MY LIMITS out of humanity. Later in life I started doing lot of research on different religions to see if I could find faith in any of them. Finally I thought of giving Bhagavad Gita a try, I downloaded a PDF version and started reading, though it was really a half-hearted approach. The next day my system crashed and I lost the file, being lazy as I am I took it as a sign from GOD that I am not ready for it. So I postponed my nirvana for later.:P
nikred Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 God and religion are different. If religion is journey GOD is the destination. :angelic:
flamy Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 If religion is journey GOD is the destination. :angelic: The devil is in the details. :dontknow:
vipin Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I have an e copy of the book if you want. I have attached it as a zip as its over the file size for a pdf. And no i am not promoting it. I am an agnostic myself who believes in religion and the societal and moral aspects of it , but not in creationism and God as a living entity. For me God = nature , which can be studied by science but probably never completely.
flamy Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 ^ in b4 ban. in other news, I just transferred the audiobook onto my ipod. Been wanting to read this for a while now.
vipin Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 ^ in b4 ban. in other news, I just transferred the audiobook onto my ipod. Been wanting to read this for a while now. Ban. what for :dontknow:
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