zubinpepsi Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 It is ludicrous to suggest that independent free thinking secular minded women will wear the Bee Keeper's headgear on their own accord ! Don't confuse it with Hijab which I am sure some women will like to wear it on their own accord. The last time I checked ' date=' their is no edicts in the west on the same wave length against women wearing sari or salwar kameez. The problem with PC crowd is that they try to be tolerant towards subjects who are intolerant. Trying to be tolerant and extending civil liberties to bunch of hard wired , ideologically brain washed islamists is not only unwise , but quite frankly dangerous in my opinion. Do you seriously think that these mullah crowd accompanying these burqa clad women are liberated in terms of their social thought process. Heck , if roles were reversed and they were the majority, they would not hesitate for a moment to impose strict sharia law and force one and all to wear that bee keeper dress.Ask Saudi ....[/quote'] :bow:
suraj Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Kumble_rocks really does rock Great observations K_R :hatsoff:
Rajiv Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 POINT A) Who made the Burqa rule? Men and why did they have that so they don't want the world to look at their women and fantasize POINT B) Adhering to the fact of wearing is a sign of suppression, can you imagine a burqa clad women fighting for any rights, applying for a good job, or getting educated The whole theatrics of wearing it shows that the women is an object, people would actually letch at someone who is hiding from the world and this is Paris for christ sake - for them nude is cool ( imagine burqa - total opposite ) Also - I see many ladies who actually start wearing a hijab when they come here? why, u never wore it back home and I mean I can see ur face, whats with the head covering Infact, if u ask me - pretty ones look more sexier in it so there u go the whole idea is a flop
suraj Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 K_R' date=' you’re missing the crux of my argument. I did never claimed [i']‘Wearing a Burqa is a good thing and ideally, all Muslim women should do it’. I said ‘If a women wants to wear a Burqa, she should be allowed to do it.’ I see nothing flawed in this statement and I stand by it. Now, how many women would actually want to do, is a matter of entirely different discussion. I also said that it is ludicrous to consider a bikini-clad, sun-bathing women to be superior or more ‘free’ than a Burqa clad women. Once again, I think this statement makes perfect sense and I stand by it again. Explain why???
Macj Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 This is akin to the Swiss law that banned construction of mosques with minarets. There are two facets of Islam taking hold, personal and political Islam, I dont think Europe has a choice regarding the personal side of Islam. The minarets are a representation of political Islam, which has no business competing in Western Europe's political landscape. Likewise this is in France, the burqa is totally alien to French culture, if the majority of the French deem it unacceptable then it shouldnt be worn. You dont see a French girl demanding that she be allowed to wear skimpy dresses in the Middle East. I commend Sarkozy who is incidentaly of Hungarian/Jewish ancestry. To comment on a few other posters who claim this is not a free will exercise, most Muslim women in large cities like Marseille and Toulouse fear rape by Muslim youth if they dont wear a veil, so they still wear it out of fear though of their own will.
Brainfade Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Which woman is weaker? The one who wears a burqa due to religious demands or women like Hliiary C, Elizabeth Edwards and Jenny Sanford who submit to their powerful, and philandering husbands?
Macj Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 The one who wears a burqa due to religious demands or women like Hliiary C' date=' Elizabeth Edwards and Jenny Sanford who submit to their powerful, and philandering husbands?[/quote'] Dont forget the beautiful and most graceful Silda Spitzer... Anyways apples and watermelons brother - they can leave anytime.
Ram Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Explain why??? Why should they be considered 'superior' or 'more free'? Many women have the choice to go on the beach and wear bikinis and yet choose not to do so. That choice does not make them any more weaker than the other women.
Ram Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 The one who wears a burqa due to religious demands or women like Hliiary C' date=' Elizabeth Edwards and Jenny Sanford who submit to their powerful, and philandering husbands?[/quote'] I dont know how the comparison can be valid. Wearing a Burqa out of force or submitting to any other demands placed on them by husband is a direct act of subordination of a women by a man. Its not a choice that the women made. In this case, someone else took the decision on her behalf. Not annulling a marriage because the spouse committed adultery neen not always ben an act of subordination. Many women (or men) may actually CHOOSE to continue living with their spouses, even though they committed adultery, because they might have forgiven them or felt they made a mistake and were genuinely sorry.
Guest Gunner Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I have been to France many times and the whole islamic culture is an abomination to Paris the city and France the country. When I say Islamic culture, I don't intend to talk about the Islamic religion or its tenets but the cultural aspects such as the burqa, shisha etc. There are entire districts in Paris which look like a slum in Tangiers or Cairo. If Sarkozy bans the Burqa, good for him, I support it.
kumble_rocks Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Why should they be considered 'superior' or 'more free'? Many women have the choice to go on the beach and wear bikinis and yet choose not to do so. That choice does not make them any more weaker than the other women. Why do you always hold the west more accountable . Do you think western women can wear mini skirts and roam in the streets of Islamic countries or even India for that matter ? They have laws against that and rightly so. Heck , we have laws against public kissing in India. Remember the Shilpa /Gere fiasco. If France wants to ban burqa in public because most citizens there are offended by it , they are well with in their rights to do so! If these women like bee-keeper head gear so much , then they are free to go back and live in countries where such practices are encouraged. Don't tell me that the only reason for your pique is that West claims to be up holder of rights, liberty , freedom choice yada yada yada and they are not practicing what they preach ! The same analogy can be extended to anything , say for example Islam because muslims claim Islam is the best religion in the world. I don't see you question Islam . What about Islamic governance vis- a vis Sharia ? Heck , you guys won't even allow anybody to scrutinize Islam here. Where is the freedom of speech in that case ? Finally , I understand it's cool to be PC and what not , but I hope you realize we are talking about this here !
Kriterion Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 what does sarkozy mean by burqa? is he referring to all hijabs? the nikab? or the afghan style burqa? my guess is only the latter 2, by which he would have a point. if a woman wants to wear any of those, or none of those, thats obviously her choice. i can make a opinion on that, but the choice is hers. however, it is true that the quran only mentions the covering of "hair and bosoms" IIRC, which is what any decent person of any faith would expect of their daughter.
Desi Cartman Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 I dont know if he is right or wrong but I for one feel bad when I see 8 year old girls in UK wearing hijab .. recently during the T20 cup I saw many kids standing with the teams (during anthems) wearing Hijab, at the same time when I see a 8 year old sikh boy I dont mind him wearing a pagdi ... I dont know why ... IM confused :hitler: I understand that there should be freedom for everybody and maybe at some level I disagree with the statements in the OP but I am more pissed off when I hear "we want sharia in england" .. I get angry about not having a uniform civil code...
EnterTheVoid Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 At the end of the day, its their country, their rules. Either fit in or **** off. Dress code, religious ruling, modestness yadda yadda yadda whatever. I don't see Westeners protesting about not wearing bkini's in Islamic countries. Why do you think you deserve special treatment on the basis of your religion, especially when you're in someone else's country out of your own free will ? If you don't like the rules, go back to where you came from. I dont see anyone blocking the doorway.
cricforlife Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 I don't think that women should wear burkha.they should also be given equal rights as men.
triam Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 At the end of the day, its their country, their rules. Either fit in or **** off. Dress code, religious ruling, modestness yadda yadda yadda whatever. I don't see Westeners protesting about not wearing bkini's in Islamic countries. Why do you think you deserve special treatment on the basis of your religion, especially when you're in someone else's country out of your own free will ? If you don't like the rules, go back to where you came from. I dont see anyone blocking the doorway. What about the citizens already in France? I hate religions with passion, at the same time I hate discrimination too, so I dont even know what I would do.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 What about the citizens already in France? I hate religions with passion, at the same time I hate discrimination too, so I dont even know what I would do. Abide by what the country's lawmakers decide. Otherwise piss off The amount of concessions the WEST makes to appease people of Muslim faith for fear of reprisals by religiously brainwashed thugs is cowardly At some point, the law needs to be laid down. What next ? Hindu parents sending their kids to school in "dhotis" ? Living in another country out of your own free will is a privilege. You are in no position to make demands and the onus is you to assimilate.
Macj Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 What about the citizens already in France? I hate religions with passion, at the same time I hate discrimination too, so I dont even know what I would do. They became citizens swearing to abide by French laws and assimilate into French society which they havent done so far, religion in France since the Third Republic has been strictly separated in order not to discriminate, Catholic vs Huguenots , Jews vs Christian etc.
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 I dont know how the comparison can be valid. Wearing a Burqa out of force or submitting to any other demands placed on them by husband is a direct act of subordination of a women by a man. Its not a choice that the women made. In this case, someone else took the decision on her behalf. Not annulling a marriage because the spouse committed adultery neen not always ben an act of subordination. Many women (or men) may actually CHOOSE to continue living with their spouses, even though they committed adultery, because they might have forgiven them or felt they made a mistake and were genuinely sorry. A big assumption we are making is that every burqa-clad woman was forced into it, and is thus weakened. Is it not possible that many womend CHOOSE to wear the burqa although outsiders may perceive it as a weakness? We really cannot judge individual cases. As far as forgiveness and all that, you are right when you say "many women". It can be argued that, in many other cases,the woman stays becuase she feels subordinated to a man with power, or that it is her fault that her husband philandered or worse still, she cannot imagine a life without the security of a husband - some may consider that weakness. Bottom line - each woman's circumstance and response is unique - whether it is the burqa or in a marriage.
Macj Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 A big assumption we are making is that every burqa-clad woman was forced into it, and is thus weakened. Is it not possible that many womend CHOOSE to wear the burqa although outsiders may perceive it as a weakness? We really cannot judge individual cases. There are numerous examples of women wearing the Burqa to ward off young Muslim men . Rape against Islamic women not wearing the burqa is quite high in the aforementioned areas of France and other European countries. So women wear it due to fear though of their own free choice.
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